Deadly Scoobies

[Merrick]

Interestingly, it occured to me that by this stage out of the core Scoobies in Season 7 (no potentials) Buffy, Willow, Giles, Xander, Faith, Anya, Andrew, Robin and Dawn, only three have not killed a human being in the show - Robin, Dawn and Xander.

Anyone else notice/realize this?

 

[Xin Rong]

Yes, and it's understandable, considering the nature of their roles in the Buffyverse, albeit a little shocking. I love the fact that they've all killed, but for such bizarrely different reasons, from ritual sacrifice to 'following' order to accidental death.

Although, I'm assuming your referring to Robin as the third 'core' person who hasn't killed someone, which I slightly contest as I don't think he's done enough, or features in enough episodes to warrant the mantle of core, but I digress: back to the discussion: we don't actually know if he has killed a human or not, we know he went on a revenge kick in his twenties, that doesn't sound too dissimilar to Faith's 'f***' the world kick in season 3/4, so it's entirely plausible that he might have killed someone in his life, although, as far as I'm aware your right, and within the canon it has never been suggested that he killed a person.

 

[Merrick]

Yeah, I meant killed someone in the show. Yeah I wasn't going to class him as core, but then I'd have the same problem with Faith, so I figured he joined them as an ally, count him in!

I did initially think Buffy hadn't but it was pointed out to me that she kills one of the Knights of Byzantium - he takes a hurling axe to the chest I believe.

 

[thetopher]

I guess Xander and Dawn were the least warrior- like, Dawn was very young (technically she's like two and a half) and Xander hasn't been in that many battles. Not that he's particularly murderous.
Buffy's killed in self-defence a couple of times, but I wouldn't call her amoral, she's still pretty noble when alls said and done.
And by the end of Season 7 I doubt Faith or Andrew would lightly take a life anymore. They're both reformed (One convincingly the other not so much, imo)

Technically, according to the comics Willow didn't kill anybody either, both Warren and Rack survive her rampage, which I thought was a bit of a cop-out but whatever.

 

[Merrick]

Oh yeah, Amy saves Warren doesn't she. But I guess Willow, and more importantly everyone else, think that she has killed someone. I guess that's what's important.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

It wasn't direct but Xander is responsible for the humans that died in Once More with Feeling since he summoned the demon.

 

[Merrick]

That's very tru Black Eyed Guy, but the others committed their acts knowing that what they were doing was going to result in the death of a person/persons. Xander was just naive.

 

[Lyri]

Technically, according to the comics Willow didn't kill anybody either, both Warren and Rack survive her rampage, which I thought was a bit of a cop-out but whatever.

Yeah, but Warren still dies at the end of S8 as a direct result of what Willow did to him. Amy's magic was the only thing sustaining him, and when magic was destroyed, so was Amy's spell and Warren collapsed in a big pile of blood and guts. Wasn't pretty, lol.

Honestly, I think Dawn is the only truly innocent person in the entire verse. I don't think they'll ever have her actually taking a human's life - vampires, demons, witches, yes, but I don't think they'd stoop to her killing an innocent. Dawn is Buffy's morality, her innocence. I really, really hope they don't mess with that.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=6332]Lyri[/MENTION]

Honestly, I think Dawn is the only truly innocent person in the entire verse.

Dawn turns her mother's cadaver into a zombie. This is one of the most hideous, disgusting acts done on this show.

---------- Post added at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
[MENTION=12689]Merrick[/MENTION]

I did initially think Buffy hadn't but it was pointed out to me that she kills one of the Knights of Byzantium - he takes a hurling axe to the chest I believe.

Buffy also murders the zookeeper in "The Pack".

 

[Merrick]

Does she murder him in The Pack? I thought she just incapacitated him?

 

[thetopher]

The guy had the combined powers of 5 of those hyena spirit-things, maybe Buffy thought he could survive being kicked back into a hyena pit?

Oh, and we never saw what Dawn raised up, because she made the right call to destroy it before it affected anyone, hardly hideous now, what it?

 

[Xin Rong]

The guy had the combined powers of 5 of those hyena spirit-things, maybe Buffy thought he could survive being kicked back into a hyena pit?

Oh, and we never saw what Dawn raised up, because she made the right call to destroy it before it affected anyone, hardly hideous now, what it?

I agree, and to say she's not innocent because of her attempt to raise Joyce seems counter intuitive to me: innocence has obvious connotations of gullibility and naivety, Dawn is guilt of nothing more than wanting her mother back, and not understanding the risks in her attempt to bring her back. If your going to blame anyone, you should blame Willow, she's the one who deliberately led Dawn to the spell.

 

[bespangeled]

Yeah, I meant killed someone in the show. Yeah I wasn't going to class him as core, but then I'd have the same problem with Faith, so I figured he joined them as an ally, count him in!

I did initially think Buffy hadn't but it was pointed out to me that she kills one of the Knights of Byzantium - he takes a hurling axe to the chest I believe.

I don't believe the knights were human, any more than Anya and Doyle. They clearly have knowledge, skills, and purpose that is not all that human. So that would clear Buffy?

 

[AnthonyCordova]

Honestly, I think Dawn is the only truly innocent person in the entire verse. I don't think they'll ever have her actually taking a human's life - vampires, demons, witches, yes, but I don't think they'd stoop to her killing an innocent. Dawn is Buffy's morality, her innocence. I really, really hope they don't mess with that.

I like the way you put this. It really seems true too. Dawn is symbolic in that way for Buffy, without a doubt. That wasn't an accidental feature. Another reason for me to really like Dawn (she's actually one of my favorites; she's my version of your Connor Lyri. I feel very strongly about defending her from the more unfair critics. I like Connor too btw).

 

[thetopher]

I don't believe the knights were human, any more than Anya and Doyle. They clearly have knowledge, skills, and purpose that is not all that human. So that would clear Buffy?

Oh, I'm pretty sure the Knights were well-trained fanantical humans- I mean, they had some priest guys with them that could cast spells and stuff, but other than that they seemed without any supernatural powers. (Apart from those super-horses...)

And as for Buffy killing them, they were trying to kill her and all her friends- they almost killed Giles and would've murdered Dawn just because of what she was.

As a great ship captain once said 'If somebody tries to kill you, you just go ahead and kill 'em right back.' 😉

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Honestly, I think Dawn is the only truly innocent person in the entire verse. I don't think they'll ever have her actually taking a human's life - vampires, demons, witches, yes, but I don't think they'd stoop to her killing an innocent. Dawn is Buffy's morality, her innocence. I really, really hope they don't mess with that.

I would say Lorne is the purest--somewhat ironic since Joss made him easily the most demonic-looking lead.

It depends on how you define "innocent." Dawn is definitely more naive than Lorne, but that's exactly what makes Lorne more innocent in my book. He grew up in what humans would describe as a "hell dimension," and was the very plugged into the LA underworld, which the series portrays as arguably the most evil place around. Nevertheless, he was never corrupted.

Yes, Lorne killed Lindsey, but let's be fair:
Firstly, it was strongly implied he knew Lindsey would eventually do something extremely sinister.

Secondly, Buffy herself had no qualms about killing beings who were once human that turned themselves into supernatural creatures. Lindsey may have retained his human appearance, but he was just as mystically powerful as plenty slayed by Buffy.

I believe if Dawn had been through what Lorne has experienced in his life, she would be jaded if not evil by now. Lorne's gone through it all, and in his last two appearances, he first turned a corner of "hell" into a paradise, and is currently sacrificing his life by holding together the fabric of the universe.

 

[bespangeled]

Oh, I'm pretty sure the Knights were well-trained fanantical humans- I mean, they had some priest guys with them that could cast spells and stuff, but other than that they seemed without any supernatural powers. (Apart from those super-horses...)

And as for Buffy killing them, they were trying to kill her and all her friends- they almost killed Giles and would've murdered Dawn just because of what she was.

As a great ship captain once said 'If somebody tries to kill you, you just go ahead and kill 'em right back.' 😉

Of course it was okay to fight back - that was never in question.

I see them as not human, in part, because they were able to arrive in Sunnydale so quickly. Glory does not normally live in our dimension - and I don't think the Knights were created during Ben's lifetime. Since Gregor and Glory knew each other, I would assume that they both had to use some sort of portal to get to our dimension. Not sure but do any beings from another dimension count as human?