Deepest & realistic character of both series?

[Joshua]

Would you say that Faith is the deepest & realistic character of both A:TS & B:TVS?

 

[dexeded]

No. Her personality and character arc are certainly complex and interesting, but she isn't the deepest and most realistic character. Faith's story is a regular turning-dark-then-redemption, although executed very well and believably. To me, Spike's character is deeper than hers, full of contradictions, and his story arc is more fascinating (but I wouldn't say he's the deepest and most realistic. I don't know who is). I think Angel's character and story arc are deeper than Faith's too, at least on AtS.

 

[Hale Caesar]

I think Wesley had the deepest development, it was fun to see how much he changed and how well thought out it was. I wouldn't say it was the most realistic, but I found it very believable

 

[BananaBuffy]

Although I am not sure who has the deepest and most realistic storyline it is not Faith in the least...especially in the realistic category. Her past and life is too tragic for it to be considered realistic in a setting and I just don't find her to be that way anyway. I know there are people like that in the world but not to that extent. I also don't find it to be the deepest but I can't explain this as well. It just doesn't bring emotion out of me the way other characters do.

 

[kittenpoker]

I'm gonna say cordelia.... In buffy she begins as shallow, self absorbed etc... but even in the three seasons she's there we see growth, we see this inner strength (her inner warrior) start to emerge. When she talks down the vampire who's wife was just killed during slayerfest (whatever year that was) sorry, my memory isn't firing on all cylinders right now.... She really is able to convince him to be afraid of her. And the way she drives right to the library, "normally we walk there"....I see it, what she can be, it forces it's way up to the surface now and then on buffy, so I think on angel, given the circumstances.... that just as she was beginning to allow herself to accept that she does have feelings for doyle (someone the old cordy would have thought beneath her) - when he dies, and then she gets the visions.... and then the pain they cause her and that she's willing to go through that pain in order to help other people.... that's so far from where she started, but I see the steps, the rocks in the pond or whatever, along the way. Her transformation from self absorbed and popularity obsessed girl to a true warrior and champion of the people is completely, I feel, believable.

I'm ending this with before she is elevated to a higher power cause from there her journey becomes less - believable? - to me.

 

[hazzard]

i'd say it's a toss up between spike, wesley, and faith. especially spike and wesley. angel comes in there somewhere too.

 

[patriot1123]

Not even remotely Faith. I don't find her realistic at all. I found the zigs and zags in her character to be grating and unbelievable. She shows up and is a slayer, albeit a bit off. Then she's all casual about killing a human and goes to the evil side. When she returns in season 4 she's ready to completely ruin Buffy's life by stealing her body. Then she goes and *brutally* tortures Wes, who could not possibly have even remotely deserved that kind of fury and cruelty. Then she's like, "oops, that was really bad, I think I'll turn myself in." Then she's all good again when Wes breaks her out. She can't even stand it when he stabs that junkie to get information about Angel. Why????? None of that made any sense to me. I think Faith was used at the convenience of the writers.

 

[IloveBuffy]

I think she is quite realistic because of the crap way she deals with things. I think buffy and the others are just too perfect, too smart, too understanding and too rational at times. Whereas Faith is the complete oposite. She just gets more and more crazy and desperate for pointless half hearted revenge on Buffy, which seems unrealistic and nuts, but look at her situation and it makes more sense. I think if vampires where real it would be more likey we'd end up with more Faiths than Buffys. Just think, if Buffy din't have Giles, and Angel to help her she'd be more lost and probably more like Faith. And if her friends where more like "WTF! Buffy is a freak and has brought hell with her!" and were scared of her (which seems to me like a perfectly realistic reaction to the vamps and stuff) then she would feel isolated and alone and turn more Faithish.

Just what i think.

I think Buffy got supper lucky and got unlucky a few times but it was enough to dustroy her.

 

[The Bear Jew]

I feel Xander is the most realistic character in Buffy easily. He is normal for one (LOL) and for the other he just seems like someone I would know in real life. I have tons of snarky/nerdy friends....😀

 

[IloveBuffy]

The Bear Jew, is it normal for a nerdy guy to be so buff? I think NOT.

 

[The Bear Jew]

The Bear Jew, is it normal for a nerdy guy to be so buff? I think NOT.

Xander isn't that buff....

Here's the best photo I could find that showed off his arms. Looks normal to me...

 

[Living Dead Boy]

I certainly think her story arc is very fascinating. I personally believe Spike is the deepest and more "realized", I'll say, character of both series. Technically, no character is truly realistic. But I enjoyed Faith's arc. I disagree with what [MENTION=11161]patriot1123[/MENTION] said about Faith, as I thought her arc was pretty clear. Young girl, with a troubled and lonely past, comes to Sunnydale with all this new power. She envies Buffy and her circle of friends because of their connection, their family bond. Her denial of what happened with the death of the Deputy was a pure front. She WAS troubled by the incident, but didn't want others to see it. And she turned to the one person that showed her love and unconditional support, no matter what his motivations were, as long as she could fit in. So she played the card. She slayed with reckless abandon, and she partied hard, and she discarded guys every night because on the inside she was this SCARED AND LONELY girl. She did feel sorry for her actions, even while she was doing them, but causing pain and suffering was the only thing she knew. She was never "off", nor mean spirited, just a product of a rotten childhood.

 

[patriot1123]

I certainly think her story arc is very fascinating. I personally believe Spike is the deepest and more "realized", I'll say, character of both series. Technically, no character is truly realistic. But I enjoyed Faith's arc. I disagree with what [MENTION=11161]patriot1123[/MENTION] said about Faith, as I thought her arc was pretty clear. Young girl, with a troubled and lonely past, comes to Sunnydale with all this new power. She envies Buffy and her circle of friends because of their connection, their family bond. Her denial of what happened with the death of the Deputy was a pure front. She WAS troubled by the incident, but didn't want others to see it. And she turned to the one person that showed her love and unconditional support, no matter what his motivations were, as long as she could fit in. So she played the card. She slayed with reckless abandon, and she partied hard, and she discarded guys every night because on the inside she was this SCARED AND LONELY girl. She did feel sorry for her actions, even while she was doing them, but causing pain and suffering was the only thing she knew. She was never "off", nor mean spirited, just a product of a rotten childhood.

You're not wrong ... up to this point. But after this her actions are pretty much unprovoked. Stealing Buffy's body -- instead of just running away? Brutally torturing Wesley, who didn't deserve anything of the sort? Then suddenly turning good again? Too much zig zagging. If she were that damaged, maybe she would seek to harm people who had done nothing to her; but she wouldn't suddenly become good when she never really was (because of her history).

 

[Living Dead Boy]

You're not wrong ... up to this point. But after this her actions are pretty much unprovoked. Stealing Buffy's body -- instead of just running away? Brutally torturing Wesley, who didn't deserve anything of the sort? Then suddenly turning good again? Too much zig zagging. If she were that damaged, maybe she would seek to harm people who had done nothing to her; but she wouldn't suddenly become good when she never really was (because of her history).

True. Well honestly, she never became "good". She was just trying to redeem herself from all the wrong she has done. It's really not as simple as turning on the light switch and saying, Ok, I'm all better now. I don't think that was the point. When you've been through extreme traumatic experiences like she has, your mind doesn't automatically click on the "right" and "wrong" button. In her eyes, the world has messed me over, so I could care less about Buffy's life. I could care less about Welsey's life. Life was so unfair to her, so she took it out on on other people. By the end of season 7, she still wasn't "good". She still had those tendencies to harm others.

Robin Wood: So what, you have to "ice" her now or something?
Faith: I'm not gonna kill her. I wanted to but...other things matter more.

She's desperately trying to push those things aside in order to change her life. She's at that point in her life where being "good" is simply too black and white.

 

[patriot1123]

Well honestly, she never became "good".

Sure she did. It made no sense, but in season 7 of BtVS she was totally good. She risked her life, along with the others, to save the world. She harmed nobody.

If it hadn't been for the middle, "bad" stuff, I would have liked Faith. I liked her first self, and her final self, but couldn't accept all the zig zags in between.

But, that said, though I disagree with you, you make your points very well and cogently and I respect them. And I'll give them some more thought. 🙂

 

[Living Dead Boy]

Sure she did. It made no sense, but in season 7 of BtVS she was totally good. She risked her life, along with the others, to save the world. She harmed nobody.

If it hadn't been for the middle, "bad" stuff, I would have liked Faith. I liked her first self, and her final self, but couldn't accept all the zig zags in between.

But, that said, though I disagree with you, you make your points very well and cogently and I respect them. And I'll give them some more thought. 🙂

Fair enough. Although I still would say, all that "bad" stuff in the middle was just a front. Like for example (I'm making this up by the way), I treated this girl in class so horribly. I called her names, threw spit balls at her (remember those?), and all those things...all just to make me feel better for a split second about my own inner turmoil. Once that "feeling" went away, I moved on to the next target, and the next target, etc, etc. Now just replace "me" with Faith. That's just how I feel, IMO. But hey, what's life if everyone agrees with you right? 😛

 

[patriot1123]

Fair enough. Although I still would say, all that "bad" stuff in the middle was just a front. Like for example (I'm making this up by the way), I treated this girl in class so horribly. I called her names, threw spit balls at her (remember those?), and all those things...all just to make me feel better for a split second about my own inner turmoil. Once that "feeling" went away, I moved on to the next target, and the next target, etc, etc. Now just replace "me" with Faith. That's just how I feel, IMO. But hey, what's life if everyone agrees with you right? 😛

This board wouldn't exist without such disagreement. 🙂 It's all good. I was actually the recipient of your fictitious (I know you never did this!) name-calling and spit balls, in middle school (but not fictitious for me, I'm telling the literal truth) and I've never seen any indication that the people who bullied me ever felt bad about it. But that's neither here nor there. 🙂 I think Faith's zig-zag was necessary for the plot, and for dramatic effect, and I've always been willing to overlook things I didn't like cough*giles in season 7*cough in order to maintain my overall passionate love for this show.

Thanks for the dialogue - very interesting!

 

[Living Dead Boy]

This board wouldn't exist without such disagreement. 🙂 It's all good. I was actually the recipient of your fictitious (I know you never did this!) name-calling and spit balls, in middle school (but not fictitious for me, I'm telling the literal truth) and I've never seen any indication that the people who bullied me ever felt bad about it. But that's neither here nor there. 🙂 I think Faith's zig-zag was necessary for the plot, and for dramatic effect, and I've always been willing to overlook things I didn't like cough*giles in season 7*cough in order to maintain my overall passionate love for this show.

Thanks for the dialogue - very interesting!

cough*I hated Giles in season 7 too*cough. And you'd be surprised the amount of bullies who do that. I've actually had one confess that to me years later, although that story's made for an entirely different thread. But thanks for the discussion! 😉

 

[ladydorotea]

I think Faith's zig-zag was necessary for the plot, and for dramatic effect,

In the end though, it (the zig-zag) kind of defined her as a character, wouldn't you agree? The curse of the 'first impression' be damned - but she was not interesting before she was 'bad girl', and therefore as a character she was stuck with that image forever. Btw, in real life, most unfortunately, the first impression is often the last. Therefore I agree with you on the 'realistic' part but have to disagree on the 'deepest'. Deep does not have to mean the most misunderstood or even most disadvantaged - Faith was screwed by her intro plot - but it did not make her the most interesting or most developed.

 

[patriot1123]

In the end though, it (the zig-zag) kind of defined her as a character, wouldn't you agree? The curse of the 'first impression' be damned - but she was not interesting before she was 'bad girl', and therefore as a character she was stuck with that image forever. Btw, in real life, most unfortunately, the first impression is often the last. Therefore I agree with you on the 'realistic' part but have to disagree on the 'deepest'. Deep does not have to mean the most misunderstood or even most disadvantaged - Faith was screwed by her intro plot - but it did not make her the most interesting or most developed.

If I understand you correctly, which I'm not sure I do, we're in agreement. Faith, to me, was neither the most interesting nor the most developed for all of the reasons I"ve given.