Deepest & realistic character of both series?

Yes, we agree. I like Faith well enough, but I never thought her to be the most interesting or the most realistic. She lacked in the department I find most endearing in a character - being able to connect to others as well as being able to put her personal problems second to something bigger.
 
ladydorotea said:
Yes, we agree. I like Faith well enough, but I never thought her to be the most interesting or the most realistic. She lacked in the department I find most endearing in a character - being able to connect to others as well as being able to put her personal problems second to something bigger.
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That's unrealistic though. Nobody put themselves second, not really. People are selfish that way.
 
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Dagenspear said:
That's unrealistic though. Nobody put themselves second, not really. People are selfish that way.
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Yeah, people are selfish, yet they tend to also be generous at times. And the question was 'deepest and realistic' , so while Faith certainly qualifies as somewhat realistic (although none of Whedon's characters are truly realistic - they tend to swing to the bad side too easily and then 'redeem' themselves equally too fast) she does not qualify as the deepest, IMHO, if by depth one does not mean the depths of selfishness of course - but even on that score Faith is not 'too deep', thankfully.
 
Faith hasn't made the biggest character development, IMO. However, I've studied the character and found her extremely deep and interesting. I mean, I don't even like her, but the depth of the character is just so amazing, especially for a non-regular character. That's why I chose to write an article about her. Because there's so much to discover about her, so much that we need to understand.
 
Chosen Enemy said:
Because there's so much to discover about her, so much that we need to understand.
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Like what? Dysfunctional childhood, check. Father figure problems? Check. Alcoholic mother ? Check. Wants to be as good as the 'other Slayer' and be appreciated as much? Check. Deep inside she really ain't that bad - got it. Great supporting character, great looker, excellent for stirring trouble and as a last moment unexpected asset. Depths? Nuh-uh. For that I need something more.
 
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brinkster130
brinkster130
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ladydorotea said:
Like what? Dysfunctional childhood, check. Father figure problems? Check. Alcoholic mother ? Check. Wants to be as good as the 'other Slayer' and be appreciated as much? Check. Deep inside she really ain't that bad - got it. Great supporting character, great looker, excellent for stirring trouble and as a last moment unexpected asset. Depths? Nuh-uh. For that I need something more.
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I will not go on, everything I have to say, the "more" you're looking for, is said in the article I wrote about Faith's character and her depth: https://buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=56558

I also don't think she's that good looking, which has nothing to do with the depth of the character, by the way.
 
patriot1123 said:
One of the reasons I love Giles so much is that, IMO, he always put the mission ahead of his own personal interests.
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That's one of the reasons I like Giles as well. He's a good man.

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Chosen Enemy said:
I will not go on, everything I have to say, the "more" you're looking for, is said in the article I wrote about Faith's character and her depth: https://buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=56558

I also don't think she's that good looking, which has nothing to do with the depth of the character, by the way.
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I don't agree with everything in that article. But, I agree with the over all analysis. And I too believe that Faith has more depth than she's given credit for. But, I think Faith is gorgeous. Lol.
 
I found Faith an interesting enough character, but I wouldn't describe her as "deep". IMO, there wasn't a much to her other than her troubled past and the need for attention.
 
Characters like Faith are dime a dozen. Troubled childhood as an excuse for crimes is all the rage in Hollywood. There is absolutely nothing original or deep about her and much of her story is telling rather than showing. Bored now.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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dexeded
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I just glanced over the thread, didn't read every post, but did anybody mention Willow? She changes so much over the seven seasons, by the end you can barely recognize her as the same, but every step and change makes sense. Whatever she does, either good or evil, she always has a reason, and we always know just what the reason is.
 
patriot1123 said:
You're not wrong ... up to this point. But after this her actions are pretty much unprovoked. Stealing Buffy's body -- instead of just running away? Brutally torturing Wesley, who didn't deserve anything of the sort? Then suddenly turning good again? Too much zig zagging. If she were that damaged, maybe she would seek to harm people who had done nothing to her; but she wouldn't suddenly become good when she never really was (because of her history).
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From Faith's POV I don't think it was unprovoked though...when she woke up from the coma she was extremely disturbed that Buffy had forgotten about her. We already knew she was an emotionally immature character who can't deal with her feelings rationally. Everything from that was a downwards spiral, which not including the fantasy aspects of the show was a pretty accurate portrayal of a nervous breakdown.

I don't believe the "zig zagging" of her character was unrealistic. She was broken by Angel in "Five By Five", he literally tore through her walls & brought her back into reality. Brutal intervention but she'd finally let the pain out. Makes sense to me that she wasn't hurting people anymore in Season 7 since the anger causing her to lash out was now gone.

Don't want to sound like I'm making excuses for murdering & torturing people cause you're in pain, but I do find her realistic and interesting. Someone mentioned Spike too which I'm 100% in agreement with.
 
Hmm...maybe Wesley. I found his transformation pretty realistic. Well, up until he started stabbing/shooting people all willy nilly in season 5 (well, okay maybe that was realistic). I'm not sure though. I liked and bought Cordelia's transformation (before her "sainthood"). I also agree that Faith felt realistic to me until her sudden "realization" or whatever in Sanctuary. I loved Five By Five, her breakdown was believable and understandable, but she just changed too fast. She suddenly felt so bad for everything and something about it seemed odd. She seemed like an entirely different person after that year (or however long that was) in prison.

Maybe it was realistic. I mean how could I truly know? I've never known or met a serial murderer.
 
I agree there's kind of a point where we have to "guess" about the realism at least in real world terms. I know people who've had messed up childhoods & they most certainly haven't turned to murder. But that searching for acceptance & complete irrationality (leading to a load of craziness) when it comes to relationships rings true. Like in This Year's Girl, when Faith literally compares herself to Buffy's mother in terms of what her importance should be. I love Faith but she put Buffy on a pedestal that just wasn't real.

I'm with you that the total 180 did feel a bit fast...I wish they'd had more episodes to focus on getting from A to B but there was so much simultaneously going on that focusing on a supporting character probably didn't make sense.

Totally agree with Cordelia before the Sainthood. Actually that's probably my favorite transformation of the series. I'll always be a bit sad with how they wrapped her storyline up.
 
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