Define The Shanshu

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
16,036
Age
78
Location
rome, georgia
Throughout almost the entire "Angel" series, the Shanshu prophecy has been the goal that Angel has aimed for, the chance to become a real live boy again. My question is, what, exactly, do you think that the actual prize will be?

If the recipient becomes human, yet retains his vampiric strength, senses, and rapid healing power to any degree, then he could be Buffy's partner in her fight, assuming that it continues on after Seasons 8 and 9.

If the recipient becomes fully and totally human, he and Buffy could be together, have a normal life, maybe even a family. But if her fight continues, he could be no more of an asset to her than any other mortal, the reason that Angel renounced his humanity in "I Will Remember You."

So, which would you envision, assuming that Buffy has to remain the active Slayer, not retire and settle down to picket fences and fat babies? A fighting team, two super powered mortals, or Super Buffy continuing the good fight while powerless hubby stays home and bakes cookies (and probably diapers)

(While I was writing this, I suddenly got a vision of mortal Liam staying at home tending to the babies while Buffy goes out every night to fight the forces of evil with Spike as her partner. Now THAT would make an interesting story!)
 
white avenger said:
(While I was writing this, I suddenly got a vision of mortal Liam staying at home tending to the babies while Buffy goes out every night to fight the forces of evil with Spike as her partner. Now THAT would make an interesting story!)
Click to expand...

Okay, first - LMAO at that scenario.

But I guess I'd envision Buffy retiring, she has been very vociferate about wanting to do so since day one and if there's a Slayer army out there maybe she could eventually.

Though I don't think she would ever completely pull back though. I think both she and Angel would find a way to stay active in a different manner in order to "fight the good fight"
(it's too ingrained in their personas not to I believe, bloody self-sacrificing do-gooders :tongue3🙂
 
Can you imagine if Angel already achieved the Shanshu with I Will Remember You (the Mohra demon) or Angel:the Fall (Wolfram & Hart)? Did the prophecy ever state that it was the Powers That Be or the "universe" that makes Angel human?

I think that Angel has gotten to the point where he would stay with Buffy even if he didn't have superpowers. When he first left her he felt like he wasn't stable enough to be in a romantic relationship, that he didn't have much to offer, and that he didn't really deserve happiness until he was forgiven for his sins. But those years in Los Angeles running his own business and saving damnsels and having his own Scooby Gang made him realize that he is a catch, can be part of the world, and that Buffy was right when she said "strong is fighting. It's hard and it's painful and its every day." He realized that it wasn't about a goal and trying to be redeemed someday. It was about the now.
 
Did the prophecy ever state that it was the Powers That Be or the "universe" that makes Angel human?
Click to expand...

The last I read (AtF issue 12?) was that Angel is supposed to fulfill the prophecy by fighting on the side of evil, presumably Wolfram & Hart. So I would say either them or "the universe" if that turns out to be the correct interpretation. They made him human in AtF so he wouldn't be strong enough when he needed it and to screw with him.
 
The prophecy states, as nearly as I can recall that "the vampire with a soul" will be awarded his humanity for the rolt that he will play in the apocalypse. In Season 5 (I think) Angel was told that he would fulfill the prophecy and be awarded for the role that he would play "on the side of the Senior Partners." Now, to me, that implies that Angel, not Angelus, will wind up fighting on the side opposing Buffy and her friends (kinda like in Season 8?) and that the bad guys will make him human for services rendered.

I have heard at least two versions of what the fans THINK that the Shanshu will result in, one being that Angel will become your normal every day human, no more, no less. Some people, though, seem to believe that Angel will become human, but will retain his vampire powers in order to help Buffy in her fight. That is why I asked the original question. To see what the most popular version was.
 
I never understood how he could "sign it away".

How could signing a legal document in blood give away his destiny or his chance of being a contender for a prophecy?
 
I think I really went to town with this in the 'Shanshu, Who?" thread which I can't be bothered to find just now.

I was a little behind with comics, so I mainly looked at the televised series for evidence but I'm always sceptical about destiny being signed away, because, like your destiny is your destiny. Fate being mutable undermines it's very meaning.

As for a reward, I've always liked the fringe theory that the Shanshu is merely an event rather than a punishment or reward. Did it actually say that? Wes seemed to assume it would be but wasn't it ambiguous which side he'd be on. If he's on the side of evil, it wouldn't seem likely that it would be a reward or if it was, it wouldn't be a reward from the PTBs.

I actually like the idea that even if she Shanshu does transpire, it doesn't mean anything, it's just what Angel (or Spike? Is he definitely not a contender) makes of it. Humanity can be a curse, as can immortality and both can also be seens as gifts as well.

As for Buffy and Angel riding off into the sunset, it's possible. I hate the idea of destiny and fate anyway, so it depends on what they want out of life and from each other. I'm a firm believer that relationships don't happen in a vacuum, because if that were the case, they would never have broken up. So in short, their love isn't a guarantee that things will work out, but on the other hand it's actually their humanity that defines them more than anything else. They love each other for who they are not what they are, so like anything else it depends if their love that contend against the circumstances.
 
When I watched it for the first time I thought that it was more of a symbolic thing on the Circle's part, but then they confirmed in AtF that it 'real' but just not filed.
 
ToShanshuInLA said:
When I watched it for the first time I thought that it was more of a symbolic thing on the Circle's part, but then they confirmed in AtF that it 'real' but just not filed.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat, I thought that at best they were trying to trick Angel. The not filing thing is just stupid...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom