We all know that it was the First Evil appearing to Dawn as Joyce in Conversations With Dead People. But, was the ghost/demon in the house fake too? I've been wondering this for some time, and the repeat on LOGO last night jogged my memory to come on here and ask. It just seems weird that a demon would come in the house the same night The First does. Also, Dawn kills it by making up her own spell and throwing a random bowl of herbs at it? Does The First even have that power to generate wind, shake houses, etc?
Demon in Conversations With Dead People.
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crazysoulless
Scooby
The First did have people working for It. The Bringers. Caleb. And later the Turak-Han. I'm sure that someone could find a way to generate wind and things like that. Some witches could so it would make sense for at least some of the Harbringers of the First Evil of the Universe to be able to do it.
I always took all of the things standing between Dawn and talking to her "mother" as the First Evil trying to manipulate Dawn into believing that it really was Joyce when she finally talked to her. Make her think she fought and won against this evil entity that was trying to get between them so that she really bought it. It wasn't just her mother suddenly appearing. It was Dawn battling to allow her to speak to her (this is what Dawn thinks). It's why Willow could realize after awhile that Cassie/Tara was the FE while Dawn wouldn't believe that the person that spoke to her was anyone but Joyce.
I always took all of the things standing between Dawn and talking to her "mother" as the First Evil trying to manipulate Dawn into believing that it really was Joyce when she finally talked to her. Make her think she fought and won against this evil entity that was trying to get between them so that she really bought it. It wasn't just her mother suddenly appearing. It was Dawn battling to allow her to speak to her (this is what Dawn thinks). It's why Willow could realize after awhile that Cassie/Tara was the FE while Dawn wouldn't believe that the person that spoke to her was anyone but Joyce.
Fusions2
Stark Industries Employee
My take on the whole demon aspect that Dawn experienced was, it was planned from the beginning. The First wanted Dawn to kill what ever it had planted to make it look and feel real and lead her in to believing that was Joyce. Other wise if it had been different or Joyce had just showed up, Dawn would have taken a lot of convincing.
Black Eye Guy
Taking over the World!
Im not 100% sure but I think I remember Jane Espensen a number of years ago, said that both things were the First.
Well, what crazysoulless and fushions2 said makes a lot of sense. I forgot that The First could pretty much get whatever it wanted to work for it. If it really was a war between both sides, The First probably didn't care that it sacrificed one of its minions as long as it believed splitting up Dawn & Buffy would really work. It's just really confusing because all the crazy things happening in the house - the tv not turning off, the loud banging, wind, etc - and then the voice coming from the radio (which i thought the demon was doing) is Joyce. But, then if Black Eye Guy is right then that side of the story would make sense too.
ILLYRIAN
Druish Pervonian Wizard
Seemed to me that the first wanted to instal a sense of mistrust, in the people around the slayer.
D
dan k
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crazysoulless
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BuffyElevated
Scooby
I never knew if "Joyce" was The First or not... It makes sense, since all the other dead people in the ep were The First. But I guess if it really were Joyce she wouldn't have appeared as scary as she did in some shots.
ILLYRIAN
Some people huh! They think that just 'cos they're dead they shouldn't have a nice relaxing trip o was
GrrArghx
No touching my clipboard!
From Amends;
GILES: Um, they're known as the, uh, as the Bringers or Harbingers. They're high priests of The First. They, uh, they can conjure spirit manifestations and set them on people, influence them, haunt them.
I think the Bringers conjured up the demon to mess with Dawn.
GILES: Um, they're known as the, uh, as the Bringers or Harbingers. They're high priests of The First. They, uh, they can conjure spirit manifestations and set them on people, influence them, haunt them.
I think the Bringers conjured up the demon to mess with Dawn.
NY State of Mind
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Natasha1988
Rogue Slayer
I dont believe it was really Joyce, The first was a master of manipulation and it knew that this was the way to get to Dawn, the fact that Dawn had to fight something before she could talk to her was just a big ploy by the first to get her to trust it....well thats my opinion anyway