Demonic Mind Control And Culpability In The Buffyverse

[thetopher]

So after watching 'Gingerbread' and seeing a fairly normal yet also clearly 'mentally influenced' Joyce I thought I'd bring up mind control and character culpability.

'Mind control' or perhaps a better term is being mentally influenced by a demon happens rarely on the show:

In 'I Robot, You Jane' Molock seemed to have the ability to influence people to commit murder/build him a cruddy robot body, yet he didn't seem to have much of an effect on Willow.

'Bad Eggs' involves direct physical mind control by little skittering things, and yet Willow, Cordelia and Giles act fairly normal whilst being controlled up until the point where they attack their friends.

'Gingerbread' obviously. Willow and Buffy's parents seem perfectly happy to burn their children at the stake.

'Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been' has a demon playing on people's paranoia to drive them to murder each other (including Angel).

The Glark Ghul Kashma'nik that poisoned Buffy with crazy-juice in 'Normal Again'

Then there are other, more clearcut cases of creature mind-control/possession- Hyena-Xander and trigger-Spike.

I'm pretty sure I've missed a few and I'm not really talking about magic spells that affect people- they seem very powerful and clear-cut when it comes to overwhelming a person's free will (see 'Halloween, Something Blue', etc.).

The question is 'how culpable do you hold the person being mind controlled generally speaking?
Is the demon using emotions that are already there in certain cases? (Like how somebody might do/say things whilst drunk that they wouldn't usually.)
Or is it the demon actually twisting and amplifying normal emotions to an extrodinary degree?

 

[VisionBoy]

I do think in many of these cases, the demonic/evil influence is playing on emotions that are already there. Like Joyce's fears about having a slayer daughter (Gingerbread) or Buffy's crisis of self (Normal Again). Obviously the demon takes those feelings to dangerous new levels. Would I say they were culpable because they had those feelings? No, I don't think I would.
We all have dark thoughts and feelings to some extent, but then we have self-control and logic to filter them; I think demonic influence takes that away and makes the most destructive option seem like the best option or even the only option.

But in the case of possession or spells, I don't think it matters much who you are or how you think. Especially not with possession; someone/thing else is doing the thinking for you.

 

[Blaze]

I don't hold any of them culpable unless they themselves chose to be possessed (not the case for any of them, but an example for this would be the vampire fanatics that wanted to be turned, well in that case I'd hold them responsible for the action).

I don't think it's fair to say that just because the character might have some deep buried emotions, that they should be held responsible. Guess what, sometimes I feel like punching some idiot in the face, but I still never do it. Just because I have the thought of doing it doesn't make me a bad person. The distinction is in what we choose to do and not do. In this case if the person can't choose because they're possessed, well I can't possibly blame them.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Just because I have the thought of doing it doesn't make me a bad person..

It depends on with whom you speak. There are many people that believe thoughts are as damning as actions. And that you are just as bad for thinking it as you were for doing it.

 

[Blaze]

It depends on with whom you speak. There are many people that believe thoughts are as damning as actions. And that you are just as bad for thinking it as you were for doing it

I mean, I can see it depending on what the action is. Is someone is thinking of molesting children, even if they don't do it, my gut feeling would be to hate them because of it. Just because it's such an awful thing, how could anyone think of something like that. My gut reaction is just that you have to be really messed up to think that, even if you don't do it.

But if we're speaking of normal emotions, like anger, or hate, than I think those are normal emotions in everyone. Those are things everyone has felt at one point of another. And sure, wanting to punch someone might indicate that I perhaps have some anger issues, but from there, there is a big difference from thinking it and doing it.

What I'm trying to say is that some emotions are normal to have. Anger, lust, hate, love, those are all normal emotions. But the fact that you don't of do act on it differentiate whether you're a good person or not. Whereas some thoughts are just not normal, if you're thinking of actually killing someone, or raping someone, than it's an indication that you truly need some help. But here in my original post, I was talking about normal human emotions.

 

[NothingVentured]

This is actually a pretty big beef of mine in fiction. I hate, hate, hate it when writers use the trope of bringing out some suppressed id and blaming the character for it afterward. The thing that keeps you from slapping someone is part of who you are. Take that away and you're no longer yourself.

Cheap writing if you ask me.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

normal emotions, like anger, or hate, than I think those are normal emotions in everyone. Those are things everyone has felt at one point of another. And sure, wanting to punch someone might indicate that I perhaps have some anger issues, but from there, there is a big difference from thinking it and doing it.

Right, understand. But there is still a subsect of society that says you are wrong for having those thoughts. But that's something I dont really, ya know, think is pertinent to the discussion. I was just speaking with one of those people earlier ergo my mentioning it.

 

[AnthonyCordova]

Now that I think about it, I wish there had been more examples in Btvs/Ats/other tv shows of people who successfully resisted mind control as others failed, so that we might think more about how some people can resist suggestion or strong mind control and why they do (and how that works in the real world, such as with subliminal suggestion, influence of the crowds, public opinion, hypnosis, etc.). I think there would be a lot of value in thinking hard about this together as communities. A lot of potentially interesting discussions in that direction.

I don't think I have ever held an action by a Buffy or Angel character against them when it is under the influence of mind control. I can't remember all of your examples crystal clearly though.