Did Angel deserve to have his son taken away?

Joshua

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Now yes Angel's a good guy or trying to be one but because of his monsterous past, do you think he deserved his sadness in season 3? With Connor being kidnapped?

Did Angel deserve to have his son taken away?
 
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I'm not sure if Angel "deserved" to lose baby Connor, but I do see a certain irony in it, seeing as how he and Darla had taken so many infants away from their parents during their careers, and that the person responsible was one of those parents. If there actually is any sort of "road to redemption" that Angel is supposed to be traveling, then his feeling that loss should definitely be a part of it.
 
I agree with [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION]; I saw irony in the fact that Angel's son was ripped away from him, just like he had ripped so many other children from their parents and vice versa. However I don't think he deserved it. Holtz's actions were not justified; he was acting out of pure hatred and vengeance, not justice.
 
SlayerFest
SlayerFest
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Hell no. While I can see the irony that WA and HisMrs have mentioned, I don't believe that anyone deserves to have their child kidnapped. More so, Connor didn't deserve to be stolen from his family, lied to and raised in a hell dimension that robbed him of his childhood.
 
S
Summerlilly
yeah, sucked for Connor
white avenger
white avenger
I agree, no parent deserves something like that. I just found it ironic that Angel should finally experience first hand the anguish that he had caused so often in the past
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david4wt
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Kean
Kean
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SlayerFest
SlayerFest
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No, Angel didn't deserve that and neither did Connor. Angel is not Angelus. Angel seeks redemption. I mean, Angel is a good guy who would have been a great dad.... and really wanted to try. It was heartbreaking to see his only true happiness be ripped away from him by his best friend, even if it was thought to be for the best. I wanted Angel to have happiness....but we all know that can't happen. That's Angel's story. He must always pay in some way for being a vampire.

Angel deserved much more and it killed me to see Connor truly hate him for all the wrong reasons.
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
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Noone deserves it when their kids are took away from them. Not in a TV-Show and not in real-life. Unfortunately this happens very often still today. In Africa for example... war...childsoldiers...very sad.
 
No body deserves to have their children taken away from them - unless they were abusive parents - and Angel wasn't that at all! Also, Connor suffered so much and he's an innocent child. Connor didn't deserve to be punished for Angel's mistakes.
 
No one deserved that, it was heart breaking. Although, from a karmic point of view, he did deserve it after killing so many parents/children.
 
I see absolutely no irony in it at all. Angel is not Angelus, a fact this particular arc goes to great lengths to prove, and his son being taken from him is the single cruelest act in the whole verse as far as I am concerned. What happened to Angel and Connor is the most appalling thing I can imagine. No one deserves it. Much less someone who is already paying dearly for actions that were not their own.
 
I see absolutely no irony in it at all. Angel is not Angelus, a fact this particular arc goes to great lengths to prove, and his son being taken from him is the single cruelest act in the whole verse as far as I am concerned. What happened to Angel and Connor is the most appalling thing I can imagine. No one deserves it. Much less someone who is already paying dearly for actions that were not their own.

I agree... but if there is no crossover between angel/angelus then what is he seeking redemption for, angel doesn't fight to redeem his own crimes, he fights to redeem angelus' crimes...
 
Now yes Angel's a good guy or trying to be one but because of his monsterous past, do you think he deserved his sadness in season 3? With Connor being kidnapped?

Did Angel deserve to have his son taken away?


While I agree with what WA and HisMrs said, I don't think anybody deserves to have their child taken away...unless there are special circumstances. Wesley truly thought that if Connor had stayed, then yes, Angel would have killed him [even though that particular 'prophecy' turned out to be bogus later on]. That said, I completely understand where Wes came from., personally. 🙂
 
I agree... but if there is no crossover between angel/angelus then what is he seeking redemption for, angel doesn't fight to redeem his own crimes, he fights to redeem angelus' crimes...

I think having memories of enjoying inflicting pain and misery on others with his own hands, is very hard for Angel to separate himself and his culpability from. He feels responsible, even when ultimately, he is not.

The audience knows Angel has his own sins to atone for, but what Angelus did with his body is a separate thing. As Ats goes on, I think he learns that more and more. When Angel is bad or wreckless, like he was in S2 of his show, that is his own darkness coming through. It's not his demon. The demon is something else.
 
The audience knows Angel has his own sins to atone for, but what Angelus did with his body is a separate thing.

The audience certainly knows that argument, but not all of us necessarily agree with it. I won't go quite so far as to say that Angel is nothing more than Angelus with a muzzle, but I WILL say that Angel blames himself for what Angelus did. He has to, otherwise there could be no punishment in forcing a soul and the resulting conscience and sense of guilt on him. Whenever referring to his soulless days, Angel always says "I," not "Angelus." If he can't disassociate himself from his monster, I see no reason to do it for him.

No one DESERVES to lose a loved one, but, as I said earlier, there is definite irony in the fact that Angel, for once, has the opportunity to feel that loss, to feel the rage and desire for vengeance on the perpetrator, and even know what it feels like to have his son basically resurrected with the driving desire to kill him, the same way that we have seen other vampires apparently instinctive desire to kill their human families.

Something else to consider, however, is that, as we all agree, Angel doesn't DESERVE to lose Connor, doing so is a definite learning experience for him, and as such, has the potential to strengthen his determination to seek whatever degree of redemption that he might one day attain.
 
Xin Rong
Xin Rong
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As pretty much everyone said above, no one deserves to have their child taken away like that. And above all, Connor didn't deserve to be raised as a warrior in a hell dimension.

Despite what we saw in seasons 3 and 4, I sometimes think about what Connor would have been like if Angel had raised him. I think he wouldve been a lot like what we see of him in season 5, but a lot more accustomed(sp?) to the "dark side" of L.A.
 
Hell no. While I can see the irony that WA and HisMrs have mentioned, I don't believe that anyone deserves to have their child kidnapped. More so, Connor didn't deserve to be stolen from his family, lied to and raised in a hell dimension that robbed him of his childhood.

I completely agree with this. Holtz was just so deranged and blind with anger because of what happened to his family, which is understandable, but he couldn't see straight. I understand why he wanted to hurt Angel but poor Connor didn't deserve that at all. I mean Angel didn't either, but it really ticked me off that he didn't care what happened to that poor baby. Although I remember him saying something like, "At least he'll have a chance with me." I think he truly believed that Angel was pure evil (despite the fact that he had a soul) and that he was incapable of providing for Connor because he's just an "animal". Ugh the whole thing really makes me sad 🙁 he was such a great dad! Anyone who can put up with a jackass like Connor (when he's older of course) is a saint. Yeah his behavior is understandable seeing as he was raised by a deranged man who hated his father...but it drives me insaaaane.
 
R
Robb Stark
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brinkster130
brinkster130
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