Did Angel know about Spike's rape attempt towards Buffy?

[spuffy]

I don't think he knew, but what do you think his reaction would be if he knew?

 

[Hexaphim]

I don't think he knew, and I think Angel's reaction would pretty much be to kill Spike. 😛

 

[Panda]

yeah i'm pretty sure he didn't know. if he had we would have found a pile of spike's dust somewhere.

 

[angeldarla]

Yeah i agree with you . Maybe he would join xander and both will kill spike. Or he could do that alone, he always wanted to dust spike. But i guess buffy would probably stop him cause she couldnt see any of her boys turning into dust.

 

[Flawless Faith]

If Angel knew, Spike would certainly be dead and definitely wouldn't have ended up on his show.

 

[bucky01403]

I dont know, I think Spike could beat Angel.

 

[Mortal]

I think Angel would be okay with it because Spike didn't have a soul at the time. Now he does. And Angel knows a little something about acting out of character when soulless - he probably raped a bunch of girls when he didn't have his soul, not to mention the torture sessions and killings...

 

[white avenger]

Angel vs Spike: You Might Be Surprised...Or not.

I think Angel would be okay with it because Spike didn't have a soul at the time. Now he does. And Angel knows a little something about acting out of character when soulless - he probably raped a bunch of girls when he didn't have his soul, not to mention the torture sessions and killings...

Angel tends to have a double standard when it comes to judging others as compared to his own actions. He made numerous decisions over the course of the two shows for someone else's good either without consulting them or ignoring their wishes. He did it with Buffy, and he did it with his own associates, yet when Wesley tried to save Connor without consulting him first, Angel went berserk and tried to kill him.

Though he himself, as Angelus, tried to torture and kill Buffy and her friends, he would not forgive Spike the same offenses. Angel never knew anything about Spike and Buffy's relationship, to the point of belitteling Spike's accomplishment of regaining his soul as a way simply to "get in her pants." If he had ever known about that moment between Buffy and Spike, he would have mentioned it at the least, attacked him at the most extreme.

As just who would have wound up as a pile of dust...who was it that drank the Mountain Dew again? I don't think Spike was the pushover by that time that he was in previous seasons.

Add to all of that, if Angel HAD have tried anything, if Spike didn't kick his ass, Buffy most certainly would have for interfering with her life again.

 

[Spuffiness]

I really don't think he knew. He would have said something for sure, use it against Spike. The question is, if he didn't know, why didn't Buffy tell him? I believe she was trying to protect Spike, knew Angel would kill him if he found out.

 

[Mortal]

Buffy probably didn't tell Angel because it wasn't any of his business. Besides, there was a lot of context to it that Buffy probably wasn't particularly proud of.

 

[definition of insane]

I doubt Angel would have known and I doubt Buffy would tell him. It's not any of his business. Also Buffy was ashamed of being with Spike which would make her less likely to tell him.

I mean, Angel wouldn't have known about Parker unless Spike didn't open his yap about it, would he?

 

[Jone]

I really don't think Angel knew. I also agree with definition of insane, Buffy probably wouldn't tell him. I mean, she didn't even tell Dawn!

Also, Angel wouldn't forgive Spike for doing that, even if HE had done it to other girls. (Spike saved the world and Angel still hated him.)

Although, Spike does deserve someone to be mad at him for his actions. Buffy forgave him, Dawn did (I think she did...), and some of the other scoobies did (except Xander...I have a feeling he still hated Spike). And soul or no soul, Spike should know that's not something people do to other people.

So in the end, Spike would be history if Angel found out...or at least 5,000,000 miles away from Angel...

 

[Xin Rong]

Angel can't have known or I'm pretty sure that spike would be no more

 

[Brightside of a Dark Mind]

I agree that Angel most likely never found out about it, or else he would have gone on a crusade to end Spike. I also agree with Bucky though, I don't think Angel would be able to take him so easily, if at all.

If Angel knew about it there would have been no Spike in Season 5, as Angel would not have tolerated him one bit and would have sought ways to turn him from ghost to corporeal form in order to [try to] kill him.

 

[Kean]

I know this thread hasn't had a post in awhile but the topic caught my attention.

I don't think he knew. Angel is an extremely possesive guy, remember in 'Reptile Boy' when he thought those frat boys were having their way with Buffy and he went all grrr? Well multiply that reaction by a million and I think you would still be underestimating how enraged he would feel about the whole thing. Regardless of how long he and Buffy were apart, he still had marked her as his mate and for his grandchilde to touch her like that, he would have freaked. But I don't think he would have killed Spike, maybe beat him untill his ass was a brand new shape but not killed him. And I don't think his anger would just be for Spike but for Buffy and himslef too. By finding out about the attempted rape he would have found out about Buffy and Spike boinking for half of season 6. He would have been pissed at her for not having the 'normal' life he left her for (all of which is bull by the way) and at himself because she got hurt,again, after he swore up and down that he wouldn't let that happen.

 

[palabravampiress]

Gosh, it would have been interesting to see how this played out! Now I really wish the truth had come out -- maybe from Xander? - while Spike was on Angel.

I think Angel would have wanted Spike dead. I think he would have been as enraged as everyone here said. I think he would have tried to kill Spike.

Now, whether or not I think he would have succeeded is up for debate. First off, certainty and righteous indignation are powerful things. Angel's emotions might have given him the upper hand, especially if he told Spike why he suddenly wanted to go ten rounds with him. If Spike knew why, I don't think he would fight back as hard. That thought always kind of paralyzed him. After all, that's the thing that made him go and win his soul. On the other hand, he might fight back even harder and tell Angel that if anyone's gonna take him out for that, it's gonna be Buffy. And we all know Spike can beat Angel in a fight.

Then, we have to consider that Angel already knew Buffy and Spike had a sexual relationship. It's not a stretch to say he might have guessed something to the effect of the violent way it all played out. He smelled Spike on her when he showed up on Buffy for the cookies conversation. He was surprised and hurt and angry even then, but in an amazing leap, he actually shut up about it and lived with a Buffy decision that he didn't like when Buffy said "he's... in my heart" and acted like she didn't want to discuss Spike. It comes up later in the Angel/Spike relationship when Spike's ghost first comes back and Angel clarifies the situation for the team, in Destiny when they fight for the cup, and in The Girl in Question when they make asses out of themselves all over Italy. I can think of at least twice when Spike tells angel that he had an ongoing sexual relationship with Buffy: in Destiny, he says something like (all those times I was puttin' it to her;' and in The Girl in Question, when Angel says sex doesn't make something a relationship, Spike's retort is, "It does if you do it enough." Oh - and when Angel was delusional from that parasite thing, (and Spike saved him - bahaha) he had a nightmare about Spike having sex with Buffy. Angel knew about that and didn't try to kill Spike. He even helped Spike (like with the hands thing). So he can't be mate guarding too much, here. Given how well he knows them and that he knows the timeline, I think might not be surprised when he hears about how ugly things eventually got between Buffy and Spike. He might have figured it out on his own and, so far, he has not tried to kill Spike. I think the soul means a lot to Angel.

Then again, in Angel's nightmare about Spike sleeping with Buffy, he imagined something a heck of a lot more tame than anything we ever saw between them. That's more like what we saw with Angel and Buffy (that's not a slight - he should have been gentle, given that it was Buffy's first time), but nothing like what we saw with Spike and, well, anyone. So maybe Angel has no idea.

Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. I do hope Joss lets us know in the comics! If nothing else, they'd have a pretty darn interesting conversation.

 

[Kean]

Gosh, it would have been interesting to see how this played out! Now I really wish the truth had come out -- maybe from Xander? - while Spike was on Angel.

I think Angel would have wanted Spike dead. I think he would have been as enraged as everyone here said. I think he would have tried to kill Spike.

Now, whether or not I think he would have succeeded is up for debate. First off, certainty and righteous indignation are powerful things. Angel's emotions might have given him the upper hand, especially if he told Spike why he suddenly wanted to go ten rounds with him. If Spike knew why, I don't think he would fight back as hard. That thought always kind of paralyzed him. After all, that's the thing that made him go and win his soul. On the other hand, he might fight back even harder and tell Angel that if anyone's gonna take him out for that, it's gonna be Buffy. And we all know Spike can beat Angel in a fight.

Then, we have to consider that Angel already knew Buffy and Spike had a sexual relationship. It's not a stretch to say he might have guessed something to the effect of the violent way it all played out. He smelled Spike on her when he showed up on Buffy for the cookies conversation. He was surprised and hurt and angry even then, but in an amazing leap, he actually shut up about it and lived with a Buffy decision that he didn't like when Buffy said "he's... in my heart" and acted like she didn't want to discuss Spike. It comes up later in the Angel/Spike relationship when Spike's ghost first comes back and Angel clarifies the situation for the team, in Destiny when they fight for the cup, and in The Girl in Question when they make asses out of themselves all over Italy. I can think of at least twice when Spike tells angel that he had an ongoing sexual relationship with Buffy: in Destiny, he says something like (all those times I was puttin' it to her;' and in The Girl in Question, when Angel says sex doesn't make something a relationship, Spike's retort is, "It does if you do it enough." Oh - and when Angel was delusional from that parasite thing, (and Spike saved him - bahaha) he had a nightmare about Spike having sex with Buffy. Angel knew about that and didn't try to kill Spike. He even helped Spike (like with the hands thing). So he can't be mate guarding too much, here. Given how well he knows them and that he knows the timeline, I think might not be surprised when he hears about how ugly things eventually got between Buffy and Spike. He might have figured it out on his own and, so far, he has not tried to kill Spike. I think the soul means a lot to Angel.

Then again, in Angel's nightmare about Spike sleeping with Buffy, he imagined something a heck of a lot more tame than anything we ever saw between them. That's more like what we saw with Angel and Buffy (that's not a slight - he should have been gentle, given that it was Buffy's first time), but nothing like what we saw with Spike and, well, anyone. So maybe Angel has no idea.

Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. I do hope Joss lets us know in the comics! If nothing else, they'd have a pretty darn interesting conversation.

I think the sheer emotion Angel would have about the topic would give him the upper hand in a fight and I think Spike would in some ways welcome the beating. And about Angel not freaking about the mate thing, he is clearly still very terroritorial of Buffy but as far as he knows Buffy wanted Spike so he can't really have any qualms about them having a sexual relationship. Like you said he imagined it very much pg-13 when in reality it was NC-17. He has no idea the depths that Buffy fell in season 6 and that he sexcapades with Spike got so dirrty, even depraved. And when I say depraved I don't mean because of how kinky or whatever it got I mean depraved because it was all about hurt, there was no joy in it. I think that would disturb Angel.A lot.

 

[sosa lola]

I don't think so, and even if Angel knew I don't think he'd kill him. Buffy would stop him, or Spike would.

Buffy forgave him, Dawn did (I think she did...), and some of the other scoobies did (except Xander...I have a feeling he still hated Spike)..

Actually, other than Buffy, it was only Xander who seemed to make amends with Spike. Ironic, huh? I love BtVS 🙂

 

[Kana]

To be honest I'm really not sure how it would play out. On one hand Spike tried to hurt the woman Angel loves on the other, it reflects on how he hurt Buffy himself without a soul. If he didn't forgive Spike I think it's because he cannot forgive himself for what he did. If Angel gets insight into that issue (and the initial anger) then he may forgive him.

 

[Kean]

To be honest I'm really not sure how it would play out. On one hand Spike tried to hurt the woman Angel loves on the other, it reflects on how he hurt Buffy himself without a soul. If he didn't forgive Spike I think it's because he cannot forgive himself for what he did. If Angel gets insight into that issue (and the initial anger) then he may forgive him.

Angelus never touched Buffy, not really. They had a few fights but in all his depravity and evilness he never forced himself on her. So it doesn't reflect anything got to do with Angelus.