Did Angel know

[dan k]

Just been watching "Innocence" like you may have seen in the season 2 thread and something occurred to me.

Did Angel when he slept with Buffy know he'd lose his soul? His actions before he slept with Buffy suggested that he was wary of being intimate with her but did he know what would happen? If so how would he know?

If he didn't know that he'd lose his soul why was he so hesitate in taking that step?

 

[Kelsey]

I doubt it. I don't think Angel would ever allow Angelus to be unleashed, no matter what he was giving up to keep his soul. In the 100 years he'd had his soul, he'd never come close to being happy, so I doubt he knew the specifics of how his curse worked. I imagine he was hesitant with her because he knew he'd be her first lover, and he wasn't sure their relationship was best for her.

 

[caitaintdead]

Why was he so hesitant? I guess because he was over 200 years older then his 17 year old girlfriend. Their situation was complicated and he didn't want to feel like he was pushing her into anything. He always seems so respectful of her space and decisions that I can't imagine him acting any other way about them getting intimate.

 

[Tome]

No he did not know, or else he wouldn't have slept with her. He was hesitating because honestly... she was barely seventeen and he was over two century old, a vampire(one who had been a terrible murderer) and she was a Slayer. He didn't see how a future could work between them, so why would he have sex with her. It wasn't just a one night stand for Buffy, it was serious relationship and he knew that. If he was gonna do it, it would have to mean something big. Thus at that moment with everything that had happened, he finally 'gave' in to his heart and desire(pretty much like Buffy).

That's how I see it.

 

[Bungle Jerry]

It's weird though, because 'you'll have a soul and it will torture you, but the fear of losing your soul and going back to killing will prevent you from ever having so much as a moment of happiness' is a brilliant strategy if the vampire knows he can't have a moment of pure happiness.

Otherwise, it's just a huge hole in an otherwise airtight spell.

 

[Kelsey]

It's weird though, because 'you'll have a soul and it will torture you, but the fear of losing your soul and going back to killing will prevent you from ever having so much as a moment of happiness' is a brilliant strategy if the vampire knows he can't have a moment of pure happiness.

Otherwise, it's just a huge hole in an otherwise airtight spell.

Hah, exactly. It seems like something you'd mention specifically, no?

 

[caitaintdead]

Yeah, I've got to say I never really got the catch in the spell if Angel didn't know about it... Maybe it wasn't supposed to be the case, and the clan only found out about it recently?

 

[BuffyElevated]

I have no doubt that Angel had NO clue that would happen. If he did, he would never have allowed himself to fall in love with Buffy

 

[white avenger]

Neither Angel nor anyone else, except for the few survivors of the Gypsy clan who cursed him, of course, had the slightest idea that there was, in effect, an "escape clause" in his curse. Almost certainly, at the beginning, if he HAD known, Angel would have tried to break it (don't ask me how, but he would have tried, just to get the guilt, shock, and shame of his actions as Angelus, to return to the uncaring, soulless monster who he had been, much the same way that Spike, in Season 7, tried to physically cut his soul out, much the same as a drowning man will try to reach for a twig far out of his grasp. Desperation drives a suffering man to try totally impossible things)

Angel was hesitant because he was a mature adult, even before he was turned two centuries before, and Buffy was a 16 or 17 year old virgin. He loved her, and, as much as he wanted her, he did not wish to hurt her, either physically or emotionally. Ironically, he wound up doing both.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

He didn't knew. I mean, if he did, he would've stoped it. I don't think Angel would ever risk freeing Angelus again know when he know how much he had made people suffer. I guess he was worried because she was 17, he was 200, she was human, he wasn't..

 

[Flannen]

No, I don't think he did know, not at all.

And his hesitation wasn't just about him being older than her and her being a virgin, or a worry about hurting her in anyway physically or emotionally. It was a huge deal for him too. Just because he was older and was experienced that doesn't not make it any less life-changing and monumental for him. This is the first time he was going to take that step with a person he actually loved; the first time he was going to experience it on a huge emotional level, as well as a physical. It wasn't just about Buffy.

Angel's character suggests to me that if he was as worried about Buffy's age as everyone else seems to be, he would have been as likely to stop it as he would have been had he known the curse would be broken.

 

[white avenger]

No, I don't think he did know, not at all.

And his hesitation wasn't just about him being older than her and her being a virgin, or a worry about hurting her in anyway physically or emotionally. It was a huge deal for him too. Just because he was older and was experienced that doesn't not make it any less life-changing and monumental for him. This is the first time he was going to take that step with a person he actually loved; the first time he was going to experience it on a huge emotional level, as well as a physical. It wasn't just about Buffy.

Angel's character suggests to me that if he was as worried about Buffy's age as everyone else seems to be, he would have been as likely to stop it as he would have been had he known the curse would be broken.

I agree that, as far as we know, neither as Liam, Angelus, or Angel, had he had any experience in true romantic love. For all of his experience with sex over the last couple of centuries, Angel had almost certainly never made love with a woman who loved him. In that respect, he was as much a virgin as Buffy was.

And as for the age difference between Angel and Buffy, it probably never even occurred to either of them. Being immortal, the very concept of age probably meant almost nothing whatsoever to him, and the age factor was more a concern of her mother and friends than it ever was for Buffy.

 

[Kelsey]

I agree that, as far as we know, neither as Liam, Angelus, or Angel, had he had any experience in true romantic love. For all of his experience with sex over the last couple of centuries, Angel had almost certainly never made love with a woman who loved him. In that respect, he was as much a virgin as Buffy was.

And as for the age difference between Angel and Buffy, it probably never even occurred to either of them. Being immortal, the very concept of age probably meant almost nothing whatsoever to him, and the age factor was more a concern of her mother and friends than it ever was for Buffy.

I don't know about that. I find it hard to believe that Angel didn't have some reservations about Buffy being sixteen years old. Maybe they weren't at the forefront, but he had to have thought about it.

white avenger agrees: If he thought about it to much, he would have started brooding

LOL, to quote Wash, it's not exactly out of his way.

 

[laianna]

I don't know about that. I find it hard to believe that Angel didn't have some reservations about Buffy being sixteen years old. Maybe they weren't at the forefront, but he had to have thought about it.

Not even just because she was a minor and all that, but mostly because she was so young and had her whole life ahead of her. All he could give her was his own ensouled-vampire self. He wasn't sure he deserved her, probably also, because of everything he'd done in the past.

Also, like you guys have said, if he'd known about the happiness clause, I think he definitely would have tried to use that to lose his soul, at least in the beginning when he still wanted to be Angelus. It was a curse after all, not a gift, when the gypsies gave him his soul back. I think we can say with certainty that he did not know what would happen if he slept with Buffy, but the gypsies did, and that's why they sent Jenny Calendar there in the first place, to ensure that their curse was still working.