Did Buffy and Angel mess up Faith?

[IloveBuffy]

Do you blame Buffy and Angel for the way Faith turned out or think Buffy was at least partly responsible? Because I do!

I know it's not Buffy's fault that Faith went the way she did, but i definatly think that Faith would have been ok if Angel and Buffy hadn't kept messing her about. When they tricked her in the episode Enermies i thinkand she screams 'you played me!'. It's true, they did play her. Why didn't they use that time to help her instead of betray her. And Buffy was an accessory to the accidental killing of the deputy (i'm not sure if the term there) but she knew about it and didn't exactly go and hand herself in when the police where chasing down just Faith. Buffy acted like she had nothing to do with it and kept calling Faith a murderer which isn't helpful. They also could have planned a rescue mission when they knew Faith was working for the Mayor, but they didn't. I mean how hard would it have really been to get Faith away from him and back on the side of good? They didn't even try. No wonder Faith went over the edge. She was always dangling pretty close but it really seems like they gave her that final push and then turned their backs.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

Wasn't their fault at all! Faith messed up her life by herself. She was already messed up. She kept blaming everybody for everything. Buffy did nothing wrong, it was Faith's feelings that ruined everything. Buffy was her friend, they all were. They did try to help her, but she turned against them.

And by the time Buffy and Angel tricked her, she was already on evil's side. They just revealed it. They needed to do it and I'm glad they did. It was great. And it showed Faith's real face. That's what they wanted.

Buffy was going to tell everything about the deputy's murder to Giles. But Faith stabed her in the back. Buffy was going to fight for her, she was trying to protect her, she tried to do what she thought was best for Faith. But Faith betrayed her and told Giles that it was Buffy who killed the deputy. She also wanted to take Angel's soul away. She came on to Buffy's boyfriend. Up until they all found out the truth about Faith, Buffy tried to help her. Faith kept going darker and darker until she turned againts Buffy completely and crossed so many lines.

 

[Icarium]

Do you blame Buffy and Angel for the way Faith turned out or think Buffy was at least partly responsible? Because I do!

Not at all, but I blame them for not killing her because she bores me to tears.

Why didn't they use that time to help her instead of betray her.

Wait, wait, what? Buffy and Angel betrayed Faith? I am pretty sure it was the other way around.

I mean how hard would it have really been to get Faith away from him and back on the side of good?

Impossible, unless she was inclined to do so, which she wasn't. If anything, they are far too lenient with her - letting her go in Enemies, not trying to kill her until her blood was needed to save Angel.

They didn't even try.

Sure, they did. Xander tried to talk with Faith in Consequences and the result was her trying to strangle him and possibly rape him too. Later on, Buffy talked a lot but Faith was too mwa-ha-ha evil at that point to care. I think Faith's attitude was summarised pretty well in her scene with Willow in Choices:

Faith: Oh yeah? Give me the speech again, please. Faith, we're still your friends. We can help you. It's not too late.
Willow: It's way too late. You know, it didn't have to be this way. But you made your choice. I know you had a tough life. I know that some people think you had a lot of bad breaks. Well, boo hoo! Poor you. You know, you had a lot more in your life than some people. I mean, you had friends in your life like Buffy. Now you have no one. You were a Slayer and now you're nothing. You're just a big selfish, worthless waste.

Faith tried to frame Buffy for Finch's murder and to kill Xander. They still accepted her back. Then she tried to kidnap Buffy but that plan was foiled. Then she started killing people. And you think they messed her up?!? They gave her a million and one chances.

 

[WWGD]

I don't see how anybody could blame Angel and/or Buffy for how faith turned out. All they did was try to help her. Buffy felt guilty about when Faith murdered a human, and wanted to go to the authorities and tell them what happened because it was the right thing to do - not to get Faith in trouble. Also it's already been said but Faith was already at the point of no return when Angel and Buffy tricked her.

The one point I think was the last hope for Faith was when she was chained up at Angel's place and he was talking to her about how he relates to the feeling of having killed someone, and how she had support and could get through it with their help. Then the watcher's counsel barged in and messed everything up.

They tried to keep her on the good side so many times, by the time she had agreed to work with the mayor there was absolutely no point in a "rescue" mission. She had made up her mind that she wanted to work for the mayor and she knew he was evil. This is exactly what Willow was talking about in the quote that Icarium posted above.

 

[white avenger]

Faith pretty much messed herself up by her own actions but that isn't to say that they couldn't have helped her a lot sooner than they Angel finally did on his show. Playing Monday morning quarterback, it's pretty easy now to see that if Giles, when she first told him that Buffy was the one who killed the Assistant Mayor, had simply assured her that, whoever was actually responsible, it had obviously been a mistake, and that the "never kill a human" thing was Buffy's belief, and that the Watchers had a somewhat more lenient view on the matter (which would have been true, as witness the very well organized and equipped wet team that they later sent after Faith) Faith formed her alliance with Wilkins, not because she was evil, but actually more because she was frightened and alone, just like she was when she first came to Sunnydale. She stayed with him because, as she told Wood years later, he was "like a dad to" her. He believed in her, took care of her, and genuinely cared for her, exactly the way that Giles did for Buffy, and she loved and wanted to please him just as much, or even more, considering how independent Buffy was, just as much as Buffy did for Giles.

Faith actually going bad was almost as much Giles and Buffy's fault as it was her own. It was the result of misguidance by her father figure, and the reason that she chose that father figure was because Giles and Wesley failed in their role as her Watcher.

That's my opinion on the matter, and I'm quite sure that it is an opinion held by, at best, only a few Faith supporters, and possibly only myself, but that is the way that I see it.

 

[Kean]

While I think Faith was looking for something from Buffy and Angel that they did not (and at the time, I believe could not) give her, I would argue that they did more to save Faith than anyone else Faith has ever known. If it wasn't for Angel, Faith would probably be dead.

 

[caritas08]

I think you can't really blame Buffy, Angel, or even Wesley for the way Faith turned out although I agree different actions could have been taken immediately after the deputy mayor's murder. I think Faith had gone through so much abuse at an early age (that is only hinted at in the series) that she needed to let out and deal with, and unfortunately, the way she finally dealt with it was going down the darkest path she could. What I'm saying is, even without the deputy mayor's murder I think Faith might have gone down a similar path anyway.

Her best bet was for the Scoobies to include her and make her feel part of the team from her very introduction to the show and they didn't. The Scoobies can be very cliquey (although unintentionally) and I honestly don't know how Cordy, Oz, Anya, Tara, Dawn, Riley, Spike, Angel put up with it sometimes. Faith's opinion and company was never sought out enough to fulfill her need to be included in part of a family. True, some of the walls she put up herself, but it the Scooby gang had gone through the lengths that the Mayor did than Faith would have grown more attached to them and less willing to betray them. Buffy started to bond with Faith, but everytime they started to bond Angel drama erupted "Revelations", "Amends" etc. and Buffy wasn't able to properly reach out to Faith.

 

[IloveBuffy]

These are really interesting points of views. I think it wasn't all Angel and Buffy, definatly Faith chose the dark side. But I couldn't help feel sorry for her when she came out of that coma and had nothing. Buffy had tried to murder her and then moved on as if she didn't care. The scoobies also moved on from it too and I always found that werid. How can Buffy trying to kill Faith be excusable because Buffy was in a serious, pressured situation (wanting to save Angel) yet it's not excusable for Faith to kill the for the Mayor when she obviously had lost the plot because of the stress of the watchers council's intervention, guilt over the murder, fear of jail after the murder. It does't make it ok but it seemshypocritical to me. It seemed like Buffy was seen as all good and Faith was seenas all bad. But they both had a mixure of good and bad.

Another point is Faith was obviously uneducated (because she dropped out of highschol and also she didn't know what 'ingest' meant) so maybe she thought the mayor was the devil and all powerful and all stopable. There is one episode, i can't remember which, but she says to the mayor that maybe she doesn't want to do this and he says something along the lines of 'replacing Mr Trick was difficult enough..' as if to say he'd just have her replaced. And if she feared that the scoobies and noone in the world cared, maybe she was scared to leave him.

I just can't see Faith as evil, she just seemed young stupid and impressionable. The way she acted with the Mayor was like she was trying to impress him because she liked the attention. But in a really childish way like a little kid doing a handstand saying 'hay, look at me!'

caritas08

I think Faith had gone through so much abuse at an early age (that is only hinted at in the series) that she needed to let out and deal with, and unfortunately, the way she finally dealt with it was going down the darkest path she could. What I'm saying is, even without the deputy mayor's murder I think Faith might have gone down a similar path anyway.

I completely agree with this, but i never thought about this before. She did seem to be heading down a dark path even in 'Revelations' after Gwendolyn post. She was very defensive to Buffy and probably hated that Buffy came shining through to save the day when she turned about to be the fool and have a secound watcher die. Buffy did try there at the end, but Faith revealed her frustation and it was obvious that she wasn't dealing with it very well.

I think Faith needed more support. Buffy tried, but i think Buffy was too accepting of Faith as an enermy.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I don't think they're at fault for Faith's actions. I do, however, think that if Buffy and the others had tried harder to make Faith feel like they welcomed her and that she fit in with their group, that she might not have gone bad.