Did Buffy inspire Angel's mission?

[Robb Stark]

I watched "Amends" last night, and the climactic scene on the point with the two of them featured a really powerful speech from Buffy. The sequence goes like this:

Angel: Buffy, please. Just this once, let me be strong.
Buffy: Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together. But if you're too much of a coward for that, then burn. If I can't convince you that you belong in this world, then I don't know what can. But do not expect me to watch. And don't expect me to mourn for you, because...

So my question is, do you think it was this scene that really inspired Angel during his own series? His attitude towards life and his place in the world seems to change pretty starkly following this episode. That monologue that Buffy gives him sort of becomes the mission statement for his show, and that famous line that he has from "Deep Down": "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be", seems to be directly inspired by what Buffy said to him.

I'd never really thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense. What do you guys think?

 

[iShower4free]

Man that was an intense episode, tears every time man. I think that moment had a lot to do with proving to angel that he had a lot of good to do in the world but not only because of Buffy's words but because of the snow coming as a sign to him that he is suppose to live.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

I could definitely see Angel being inspired by that speech, considering that during the very early episodes of Angel S1 you could tell that Buffy weighed heavily on his mind. So, I imagine that he took every bit of confidence that she had had in him, and used it to his advantage, inspiring him every time he doubted himself.

 

[white avenger]

It could be argued that everything that Angel ever did, from the moment that he first saw 15 year old cheerleader airhead Buffy meet her first Watcher was inspired by her.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg52kWczlIg"]Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves Soundtrack - 09. (Everything I Do) I Do It For You - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Robb Stark]

Man that was an intense episode, tears every time man. I think that moment had a lot to do with proving to angel that he had a lot of good to do in the world but not only because of Buffy's words but because of the snow coming as a sign to him that he is suppose to live.

I wanted to rep you again but apparently I've done that too many times recently so...

The last few scenes in that episode are some of the best of the entire series. There are a few episodes I think I like better, but this one is a special favorite, for sure. It gets me emotional just watching it 🙂.

 

[iShower4free]

Haha I tried to rep you in the Buffy drinking game thread earlier and couldnt because I have reped you too many times haha

 

[Anca]

I watched "Amends" last night, and the climactic scene on the point with the two of them featured a really powerful speech from Buffy. The sequence goes like this:

Angel: Buffy, please. Just this once, let me be strong.
Buffy: Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together. But if you're too much of a coward for that, then burn. If I can't convince you that you belong in this world, then I don't know what can. But do not expect me to watch. And don't expect me to mourn for you, because...

So my question is, do you think it was this scene that really inspired Angel during his own series? His attitude towards life and his place in the world seems to change pretty starkly following this episode. That monologue that Buffy gives him sort of becomes the mission statement for his show, and that famous line that he has from "Deep Down": "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be", seems to be directly inspired by what Buffy said to him.

I'd never really thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense. What do you guys think?

Uhm, no. As I remember, Buffy's please meant nothing to Angel as he was still standing there expecting the sunrise. He was saved by the miraculous snow. And the episode ends with Buffy looking up to Angel while Angel is looking up to the sky (sort of he needed a higher up approval, PTB if you will) (my opinion of course)

 

[Robb Stark]

Uhm, no. As I remember, Buffy's please meant nothing to Angel as he was still standing there expecting the sunrise. He was saved by the miraculous snow. And the episode ends with Buffy looking up to Angel while Angel is looking up to the sky (sort of he needed a higher up approval, PTB if you will) (my opinion of course)

I didn't mean right at that second. I meant moving forward. I was talking about after that episode as Angel progresses on his own. I said that what Buffy said to him inspired how he lived and fought moving forward, not right then.

 

[Wild At Heart]

I believe that it definitely influenced him. I mean, he learned so much about himself & the world that I'm sure he hadn't realized or learned on his own yet through his relationship with Buffy. She loved him despite what he had done & even when she saw his true face. She saw the darkest parts of him & still loved him. Because of her, he learned what love was because he had never really experienced it in his very long life. Of course, even after he left, he carried that with him & everything Buffy had ever said about him & shown him about himself. She made him realize that he DID have a purpose & that he WAS meant to be here. That's not something someone doesn't carry with them every single day. I'm quite sure she gave him enough courage, the courage he needed, to continue his own journey & continue down his road of redemption.

 

[Kean]

So my question is, do you think it was this scene that really inspired Angel during his own series?

In a word: Yup.

Angel to Buffy, in "Gingerbread" (which is the next episode after "Amends.")

ANGEL
Buffy, you know I'm still working
things out; there's a lot I don't
understand. But I know it's
important to keep fighting and I
learned that from you.

Source.

 

[janas]

The discourse of Buffy on the hill, meanwhile the snow is coming down, is exactly the central theme of ATS. The redemption of Angel. The journey of Angel, starts from the hill whitewashed and Buffy is its inspiration.

"It started with a girl..."

Gingerbread

 

[Xin Rong]

I watched "Amends" last night, and the climactic scene on the point with the two of them featured a really powerful speech from Buffy. The sequence goes like this:

Angel: Buffy, please. Just this once, let me be strong.
Buffy: Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together. But if you're too much of a coward for that, then burn. If I can't convince you that you belong in this world, then I don't know what can. But do not expect me to watch. And don't expect me to mourn for you, because...

So my question is, do you think it was this scene that really inspired Angel during his own series? His attitude towards life and his place in the world seems to change pretty starkly following this episode. That monologue that Buffy gives him sort of becomes the mission statement for his show, and that famous line that he has from "Deep Down": "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be", seems to be directly inspired by what Buffy said to him.

I'd never really thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense. What do you guys think?

No, Jean-Paul Sartre's novel, Nausea, which he was reading around this time, inspired Angel's mission... although Buffy does paraphrase some of Sartre's key ideas in her hill speech.

 

[white avenger]

Buffy inspired Angel to be a better man (she does that to all the cool ensouled vampires) but I'm not exactly sure that that's the same thing as actually inspiring his mission. More like, and to me at least there's a difference between the two, she inspired him to HAVE a mission, a specific goal unique to him and his particular talents and skills, or the skills that he could develop on his own, rather than to just be Robin to her Batman, helping her with HER fight.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I think, in general, Buffy definitely inspires Angel to be a better man and better fighter. She's how he wants to be. But I don't think that's the same as inspiring his mission. That was inspired by one thing and one thing only: Angel's desire to redeem himself, and to atone for all the bad he'd done, and maybe even to earn his right to move on.

 

[Robb Stark]

I think, in general, Buffy definitely inspires Angel to be a better man and better fighter. She's how he wants to be. But I don't think that's the same as inspiring his mission. That was inspired by one thing and one thing only: Angel's desire to redeem himself, and to atone for all the bad he'd done, and maybe even to earn his right to move on.

I don't know. I think that element is always there, but by the mid-way point of S3, Angel has found a place for that. He never forgets it of course, and it's always a presence he feels I'm sure, but I don't think it remains the overriding, all-dominant factor in his life, like it was in say, S3 of BTVS. He's found a way to move on a little bit, or at least, in some ways.

"Live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do". Those are pretty strong statements that, to me at least, form the core of the series and the character. And they aren't necessarily about the struggle for redemption. They're really positive, inspiring sentiments, about the importance of fighting and never giving in, no matter what. I don't think that subtracts from other themes of redemption and forgiveness. If anything, it adds to it. And that feeling is very strongly echoed from Buffy's speech to Angel in "Amends".

Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do. And we can do it together.

That's pretty's telling to me. It seems like something more than a coincidence that those statements as the series progresses are strikingly like the one Buffy expresses. It's awesome stuff.

 

[thetopher]

I think Buffy is the first of several people to inspire Angel. She does it in S3 of Buffy, she sees the good he can do.

But Doyle does the same (actually I think there's some mutual inspiring going on there, if that's even a thing.) when he steps up and sacrifices himself at a key moment. When he's tested.

Then Cordelia helps, she helps Angel in all those quieter moments. Like in 'Solumbolust' (?) she reminds him that he and Angelus are different, that's he more than a monster.

But all through 'Angel' the theme is 'fighting', fighting because there are things worth fighting for, not for reward or redemption, in the end its fighting because there are things that need there asses collectively kicked (I'm paraphrasing obviously, Angel is much so better with the speeches...🙂) and to make the world better because they can, they have the will and ability to.

And all that all started with Buffy, Christmas and that speech. 🙂