Did Buffy overreact to Spike's feelings in S5?

[Robb Stark]

I saw something like this in the archives and I was curious what the membership thinks of it. When Spike confesses that he's in love with Buffy in S5, she reacts quite strongly. I can't remember the exact quotes, but she gets angry with him, tells him he's not really in love with her and essentially tells him that he disgusts her.

Now, I don't think anyone would fault Buffy for how she reacted. Spike has tried to murder her and her friends numerous times at this point, he's killed people beyond count, including quite a few right in front of her, and he's beyond crude and insulting to her and most of her friends. The way she reacts makes perfect sense. However, Spike goes off the deep end shortly after this, captures Buffy and ties her up. I don't fault Buffy for that, but if she had reacted differently, do you think Spike would have reacted differently? If she'd told him firmly but a bit more politely that nothing was going to happen between them, he would have still acted the same way?

Now, I still think S6 and Spike would have progressed the same way. If Buffy getting angry at Spike for being in love with her didn't stop him from pursuing her, then letting him down easy wouldn't have either. She didn't owe Spike anything, but in your view, should she have handled it better at that point in time?

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think he would have been the same, he'd already shown he was a stalker. Taking her stuff and making his sex-friend dress up and pretend to be her, he was already a stalker.

 

[Blaze]

My issue with the whole Spike thing is while the hell didn't Buffy stake him in the first place. She didn't like him so it wasn't like with Angelus. She knew that he might one day remove the chip, and become a killing machine again. She's the vampire slayer and he's a vampire, do the math, that guy should be dead. And to be fair, he wasn't that useful to the the gang in s4.

So really, although her reaction was pretty explosive in that scene, I think she should have literally taken it a step further and killed him. Things were really getting out of hands at that point, and like BEG said, he was a stalker. He had no problem capturing Buffy, and it shows he was still somewhat dangerous with the chip. He should have been staked.

Now if he had been a human, different story, but he was a soulless creature, and although he did show insane improvement, he was still unpredictable and dangerous, as shown in Seeing Red.

That being said, I'm glad he wasn't killed lol I love his storyline.

 

[white avenger]

I don't fault Buffy for that, but if she had reacted differently, do you think Spike would have reacted differently? If she'd told him firmly but a bit more politely that nothing was going to happen between them, he would have still acted the same way?

Now, I still think S6 and Spike would have progressed the same way. If Buffy getting angry at Spike for being in love with her didn't stop him from pursuing her, then letting him down easy wouldn't have either. She didn't owe Spike anything, but in your view, should she have handled it better at that point in time?

Season 6 Spike, or, for that matter, latter Season 5 Spike, would not have progressed in the same way if Buffy had at first accepted her feelings for her (and note, I said "accepted," not "reciprocated.") It was the very fact that Buffy refused to accept Spike, at that time, as anything but an unwillingly reformed vampire, that actually caused the conscious change in him. His goal from the time that he confessed his feelings and saw her reaction, to that final moment in the First Evil's cavern, was nothing more or less than a desire to become the sort of man who Buffy COULD love. Without that incentive, without the mistakes alone the way, and the lessons learned from them, the Spike who we know, and whom many of us love, would never have come to be.

Plus, Seasons 6 and 7 would have been VERY boring.

 

[Zeppelin92]

Buffy felt bad for him I think. He was like bee without a stinger when he had the chip in his brain. Thats the only reason she didn't out right kill him.

Its never really explained if a vampire without a soul can experience actual love or if they just become fixated and overly obsessed, like Spike had been. Maybe thats why she didn't take him seriously.

Also Buffy had met the old evil Spike before the chip which left an impression on her. Compared to Angel where she had met him as an ensouled Vampire who had been living that way for decades. Angel was a passable for a human.

If Buffy had met Angelus first, would she have fallen for Angel at all? Things we'll never know. lol. (But I'd like to hear your opinions on this)

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I agree that Buffy didn't overreact. If anything--at that point--I'd say she'd under-reacted. At that point in the story Spike was nothing more than a monster with a harness and she had no reason to believe he'd start to change on a more fundamental level, (even though he did say he wanted to in this episode which is actually quite profound if you think about it.)

I also don't think that Spike's kidnapping and consequent chaining of Buffy was a reaction to her harsh words. I think he genuinely saw it as a way to convince her of his feelings. For a vampire, kidnapping and then tying up a love interest is probably akin to me calling you up and inviting you over for a beer so that we can talk about things. Spike at this point hadn't made any progress toward understanding what is and isn't acceptable behavior among humans; he does so through trial and error, learning from Buffy's reactions to his behavior. (This scene in Crush is example #1; he never does it again when he realizes that it upsets her, and he stops stealing her things and holding a shrine. Another example in season 5 is the 'bot; he stops using it when Buffy expresses her severe disgust even though it is repaired and just sitting in the basement of the magic shop and--later--an ever flirtatious "member of the gang" after Buffy's death).

Anyway my point is that the severity of Spike's reaction here is relative to how we as a society relate to one another. Among vampires, even beating the crap out of each other is just a good way to pass the time so I don't think Spike was thinking "I really have to pull out all the stops to make her listen to me," when he chained her up. When he offered to stake Dru though, that was different. That was actually a desperate attempt at getting her to believe him and probably more suited to the severity of her words upon rejecting him initially.

(in case anyone misunderstands me: I'm not condoning Spike's behavior, I'm stating that for as a vampire I'm sure HE considered it to be harmless).

 

[white avenger]

Its never really explained if a vampire without a soul can experience actual love or if they just become fixated and overly obsessed, like Spike had been.

Also Buffy had met the old evil Spike before the chip which left an impression on her. Compared to Angel where she had met him as an ensouled Vampire who had been living that way for decades. Angel was a passable for a human.

If Buffy had met Angelus first, would she have fallen for Angel at all? Things we'll never know. lol. (But I'd like to hear your opinions on this)

Joss has said that Spike was unique among vampires because, among other things, he was capable of love as we conceive it. The fact that he had trouble expressing that love properly by human judgement, would most likely be due to the fact that he had spent a century with a woman whose idea of love involved more pain and humiliation than soft words and tender kisses. Any gentle feelings that he had experienced as a human were long subjugated.

And, if Buffy had met Angelus instead of Angel first, I seriously doubt that she would have ever met Angel, since she had no previous knowledge of his existence, therefore no reason not to treat him just like any other blood sucker.

 

[Spikefan31]

I don't think she overreacted. I probably would have acted in a similar way had I been in her position. 😀