Did Charisma's pregnancy save Cordelia's character?

[Joshua]

Do you think Charisma being pregnant in season 4, saved Cordelia's character? the original plan for Cordy in s4 was to be evil but willingly. Do you think Charisma saved Cordelia from being ruined even if it was an intentional saving?

I mean honestly why would Cordelia go evil willingly?

 

[Lyri]

In my eyes, Cordelia's character was pretty much ruined because of Joss' reaction to her pregnancy.

As far as I'm aware, there was nothing 'willing' about Cordelia's original storyline in S4. Everything that did happen would have happened anyway, except for the pregnancy angle. 'Jasmine' still would have possessed Cordelia when she was on that higher plane and rode her body back to earth, there would have just been no reason for 'Jasmine' to have to give birth to herself. She would have used Cordelia's body. The only reason for the pregnancy angle was because of Charisma's pregnancy, which meant she wouldn't have been able to do the major fight scenes and other difficult scenes that Joss and the writers were planning for Cordelia.

The only thing that we don't know and I can't really figure out in my head is how the season would have ended if a possessed Cordelia was the Big Bad and she and Angel would have had a major battle, fight to the death. As I said in the other thread, it seems as though Cordelia's character might have been finished anyway, if Angel had been forced to kill her to save the world from 'Jasmine'

 

[Xin Rong]

Do you think Charisma being pregnant in season 4, saved Cordelia's character? the original plan for Cordy in s4 was to be evil but willingly. Do you think Charisma saved Cordelia from being ruined even if it was an intentional saving?

I mean honestly why would Cordelia go evil willingly?

Firstly, the original plan was not to have Cordelia go evil willingly, she was always going to be possessed by Jasmine, although this does seem to be a common misconception that I've seen all over the internet, but all the official interviews I've read all indicate that she would have been possessed and not truly evil.

Secondly, even if that wasn't the case, then I'm sure somehow, someway they would have done it convincingly enough and that she would have redeemed herself appropriately at some point, or would have had a good reason for being 'evil'.

Thirdly, there is no way that I can see Charisma's pregnancy saving Cordy's character, in fact it had the opposite effect, it's pretty much the reason Cordy left the show, and also this season butchered the character of Cordy so much, that I struggle to comprehend any instance that they could have possibly butchered her character anymore, other than having her walk around punching pregnant women in the stomach or pushing elderly people down stairs.

 

[Firstina]

I feel very sorry for Charisma although that might sound a little cruel but why exactly didn't they fire her? Instead they rewrote the whole season arc for her pregnancy. They could just left her character with PTB and later after the pregnancy return her back safe and sound. This would be much better both for Charisma and for the show.

 

[Lyri]

I feel very sorry for Charisma although that might sound a little cruel but why exactly didn't they fire her?

Because from what we can figure out from reports, Charisma didn't tell anyone she was pregnant until they'd already been filming for months. She must have kept quiet until she began to show.

Which is entirely her choice. Given her recent miscarriage, it's not unreasonable to want to make sure everything was going to be okay before she stared telling people. She probably had no idea what they had in-store for her character, so she was probably assuming that they could have done what they did with other pregnant actresses. She just didnt realize that her role was going to be so important that season.

 

[Firstina]

Because from what we can figure out from reports, Charisma didn't tell anyone she was pregnant until they'd already been filming for months. She must have kept quiet until she began to show.

Which is entirely her choice. Given her recent miscarriage, it's not unreasonable to want to make sure everything was going to be okay before she stared telling people. She probably had no idea what they had in-store for her character, so she was probably assuming that they could have done what they did with other pregnant actresses. She just didnt realize that her role was going to be so important that season.

Oh, ok, it is very twisted situation as far as I can tell.😳 Thanks for information.
Other pregnant actresses? Was anybody else pregnant on the set of BTVS or ATS or do you mean like in general? I am not aware of that.

 

[Lyri]

No, I meant pregnant actresses in general, not on the show. There are a lot of tricks that can be done during filming so that they hide the bump. Like Piper in Charmed, her pregnancy with Chris resulted from Combs' pregnancy in real life. They managed to hide the bump until the 6th or 7th month before they chose to reveal it in-show.

 

[VisionBoy]

I think they would have killed her or at least put her in a coma anyway. But I do think it could have been better, simply because we presumably wouldn't have had Cordelia/Conner.

Plenty of shows accommodated the pregnancies of their actresses. Holly Marie Combs (Charmed), Lisa Kudrow (Friends), Caterina Scorsone (Private Practice), Jane Leeves (Frasier), Debra Messing (Will and Grace).
It's a pretty common thing for long running shows that cast actresses in their 20s-early 30s.

I have a hard time believing that Charisma wouldn't have said something if she knew she was meant to be the seasons big bad. Like Lyri says, she probably had no idea. And if that is the case, then you could argue that the "you should have told me sooner" thing could really work both ways.

It seems that Joss got mad at her and unfortunately I think he let that come through in the story... which in my opinion is one of the worst, most unprofessional things you can do on a show.

 

[white avenger]

.

The only thing that we don't know and I can't really figure out in my head is how the season would have ended if a possessed Cordelia was the Big Bad and she and Angel would have had a major battle, fight to the death. As I said in the other thread, it seems as though Cordelia's character might have been finished anyway, if Angel had been forced to kill her to save the world from 'Jasmine'

I would think that it would have ended pretty much the way that Season 2 of "Buffy" ended. Angel would have to kill Cordy to save the world, and though it wrecked him emotionally to do it, that's what he would have done.

Then he would have run away to mourn, changed his name to "Angie," and gotten a job as a waitress in a greasy spoon restaurant.

 

[Wesley Pryce]

I feel very sorry for Charisma although that might sound a little cruel but why exactly didn't they fire her? Instead they rewrote the whole season arc for her pregnancy. They could just left her character with PTB and later after the pregnancy return her back safe and sound. This would be much better both for Charisma and for the show.

I have thought about that before too. If they had her return from the higher dimension and then she gets abducted, whether its by W&H or some unknown force,then the gang could be finally reunited under their shared feelings for Cordy and investigate through the season to find her. Could have worked. Then do the jasmine arc in season 5 if they were so determined to do so, but at least it would've been done the way Joss originally had planned it. 

I would think that it would have ended pretty much the way that Season 2 of "Buffy" ended. Angel would have to kill Cordy to save the world, and though it wrecked him emotionally to do it, that's what he would have done.

Then he would have run away to mourn, changed his name to "Angie," and gotten a job as a waitress in a greasy spoon restaurant.

lol 

I think they would have killed her or at least put her in a coma anyway. But I do think it could have been better, simply because we presumably wouldn't have had Cordelia/Conner.

Plenty of shows accommodated the pregnancies of their actresses. Holly Marie Combs (Charmed), Lisa Kudrow (Friends), Caterina Scorsone (Private Practice), Jane Leeves (Frasier), Debra Messing (Will and Grace).
It's a pretty common thing for long running shows that cast actresses in their 20s-early 30s.

I have a hard time believing that Charisma wouldn't have said something if she knew she was meant to be the seasons big bad. Like Lyri says, she probably had no idea. And if that is the case, then you could argue that the "you should have told me sooner" thing could really work both ways.

It seems that Joss got mad at her and unfortunately I think he let that come through in the story... which in my opinion is one of the worst, most unprofessional things you can do on a show.

While I agree that Joss was an unprofessional douchebag here, I think Charisma(and for the record I ADORE Charisma Carpenter and the character of Cordy, tied with Wesley for best character progression on either show) acted somewhat unprofessionally too. She should have told her boss about her pregnancy, that is just standard professional courtesy. I understand that she didn't know that she would be used as the villain for season 4 ATS, but she still should have said something about the pregnancy. I mean her arc wasn't likely going to be her being pregnant even if she wasn't a villain at all, so they needed time to rewrite the story arc for her character. Having said all of that, I still think Whedon overreacted childishly.

 

[Firstina]

Still I think Charisma got her revenge. Without true Cordy season 4 felt exactly like a private little apocalypse for Angel and for the audience. And although I am very sad about loosing such a great character as True Cordy - Evil Cordy and a little bit annoying Connor with all that horrors helped me understand Angel's decision better. And I find that "deal with the Devil" a genius twist. But It is hard for me to imagine that crew would accept the offer if Cordy was still around.
So without Cordy (and beautiful Charisma) AI literally went to Hell. 😛 It's sounds like a poetic justice to me (and mirrors real life a little - with a threat of cancellation).