Did Cordelia become an idiot

[Vtheslayer]

The story of Cordelia is so strange. At Sunnydale she is bitchy and sharp, when she comes to Angel she grows up a little but is still the same old Cordelia essentially. Then she gets the visions and that changes her a bit more, she becomes 'more mature' bla bla bla. In Waiting In The Wings she is quite admireable in her attitude "What a woman she's become" to quote Lorne. But her hair just got shorter and made her look much more older than she was supposed to be aswell. Then when she finally realises that she and Angel are in love she just decides to pack her bags and heads to a higher plance believing that it was the right thing to do. Not even considering even saying goodbye to Angel! Whats with that? And how did she know she wasn't being tricked? I mean look how crap it turned out for her. Thats when Cordelia went down hill, although she does return with some of her original sass in that S5 episode. What does everyone else think on the matter? Did she become an idiot and take the higher purpose crap too far??!

 

[Lou]

Ha ha! Way to make a title that drags people in.

I wondered about that too many times. I think I've come to terms with it as she didn't think she was being tricked because she'd worked "with Skip" before and what he had done had worked out in her favor. He found a way to get her to see her path, let her keep the visions AND not grow a tail. Plus, there was the stopping traffic....that's pretty big for a demony joke.

I've kind of decided that she realized that Angel would just brood if she went and told him goodbye because she'd be forced to say she loved him....if only by her own heart.
And since he'd just gotten Connor back, she didn't want to make him brood.

Plus, I figure she thought she'd have a way to "talk" to him and explain once she was gone. At least I would assume if someone offered to make ME a "higher power" that I'd be able to communicate somehow.

On the other hand, I'll agree with the idiot part since there really wasn't a huge PUNISHMENT if she didn't go, that if it were me, I'd have said, "Nope, I'm happy here. Angel needs my visions and we have this big hotel and this kid to shape up, I think I'll just stay right here."
But, I guess my plan wouldn't fit in with the writing very well....or the writing they PLANNED to do.
I'd like to read what they had planned to do with her if she hadn't gotten pregnant though. It would be interesting to see.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

That's part of the reason why I admired Cordelia all the more. She was the only (and the least likely) member of the Scoobies or AI who ever fully and unconditionally accepted that the fight comes first. She went through hell for the PTB, but she never gave up - unlike most of the others. I was dissapointed that she never got a chance to be with Angel, but I love that despite this she chose the fight.

Even if it was a lie. It was always the lies that tested her though, and she came through for the cause every time.

 

[Jordan]

She was better in Buffy. I mean all she done was moan about her visions in Angel.

 

[Kean]

That's part of the reason why I admired Cordelia all the more. She was the only (and the least likely) member of the Scoobies or AI who ever fully and unconditionally accepted that the fight comes first. She went through hell for the PTB, but she never gave up - unlike most of the others. I was dissapointed that she never got a chance to be with Angel, but I love that despite this she chose the fight.

Even if it was a lie. It was always the lies that tested her though, and she came through for the cause every time.

Is that not true of Buffy and Angel too? I can't think if a single instance (apart from Buffy taking that swan dive) where they do not sacrifice everything that means anything to them for good of the mission.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

Is that not true of Buffy and Angel too? I can't think if a single instance (apart from Buffy taking that swan dive) where they do not sacrifice everything that means anything to them for good of the mission.

Well, the Swan Dive is a pretty big "apart from", isn't it! Anyway, my point is that they do get there. Eventually. However, Cordelia was the only one who would consistently sacrifice herself and her wellbeing if she thought it was the right thing to do. She's not a Slayer, or a vampire - she can't take the violence like them. However, she showed a much stronger spirit than Buffy and Angel when she was (repeatedly) tested regarding her visions, and when she gave up everything to answer the PTB's call as a higher power.

Buffy and Angel....they were never quite as quick to answer that call. I'm not saying there is much in it, but Cordelia was just a regular girl too, and she handled her calling in a much stronger way than I ever felt Buffy did.

 

[Kean]

Well, the Swan Dive is a pretty big "apart from", isn't it! Anyway, my point is that they do get there. Eventually. However, Cordelia was the only one who would consistently sacrifice herself and her wellbeing if she thought it was the right thing to do. She's not a Slayer, or a vampire - she can't take the violence like them. However, she showed a much stronger spirit than Buffy and Angel when she was (repeatedly) tested regarding her visions, and when she gave up everything to answer the PTB's call as a higher power.

Buffy and Angel....they were never quite as quick to answer that call. I'm not saying there is much in it, but Cordelia was just a regular girl too, and she handled her calling in a much stronger way than I ever felt Buffy did.

I left you karma comment up there but I'll reply here anyway🙂

As far as characters go Buffy, Angel and Cordy are pretty much it for me. So the admiration I have for them all is huge. I pretty much agree with you about Cordy but I will say this, the Cordelia of Buffy Seasons 1-3 was not all that noble and selfless. She was getting there but she had a ways to go. I think the reason she did so well with her calling (when it came) was a) she had the benefit of three years of watching Buffy do what she does. The heartbreak, the pain, the suffering. Cordy was their for it all. She appreciated Buffy for that and I think she grudgingly admired her for it too, even if she would stake herself before admitting it. Also she had Angel, he and Doyle taught her alot about sacrifice. When the hard choices of herself or her calling came around Cordy knew what she was giving up and she knew what she would gain. I think that is a big difference with Cordy, she got a choice and a shot at normal, no demon life. It may have just been a summer but it was hers. Again she was given a choice by Skip to create a new life or stay working with Angel. I think the fact that Cordy was given the gift of options and another path makes it that much easier for her to choose the path of the mission. Buffy has never had the luxury, so I think she has earned those moments of doubt.

 

[atticus]

What has, and will always make me love the character of Cordelia, is the fact that the visions were in fact killing her. And she kept fighting the fight, even when she had left her body in Birthday, she still tried to get the message to Angel to save the girl. When she seen Angel in agony over the visions, she took them back. She didn't know they're was a get out alive option, she could have simply been put back in her body, and one more vision would have killed her. The shame is she was part of a larger plan. But this does not make her stupid. She believed she could help more people, by making that choice. That makes her a hero. Damn i miss Cordy. 🙁

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

I left you karma comment up there but I'll reply here anyway🙂

As far as characters go Buffy, Angel and Cordy are pretty much it for me. So the admiration I have for them all is huge. I pretty much agree with you about Cordy but I will say this, the Cordelia of Buffy Seasons 1-3 was not all that noble and selfless. She was getting there but she had a ways to go. I think the reason she did so well with her calling (when it came) was a) she had the benefit of three years of watching Buffy do what she does. The heartbreak, the pain, the suffering. Cordy was their for it all. She appreciated Buffy for that and I think she grudgingly admired her for it too, even if she would stake herself before admitting it. Also she had Angel, he and Doyle taught her alot about sacrifice. When the hard choices of herself or her calling came around Cordy knew what she was giving up and she knew what she would gain. I think that is a big difference with Cordy, she got a choice and a shot at normal, no demon life. It may have just been a summer but it was hers. Again she was given a choice by Skip to create a new life or stay working with Angel. I think the fact that Cordy was given the gift of options and another path makes it that much easier for her to choose the path of the mission. Buffy has never had the luxury, so I think she has earned those moments of doubt.

See, I view it from the other side of that coin. Buffy believes that the grass is greener on the other side, and longs for it. Cordelia knows the grass is greener on the other side, and actively chooses not to...er....(how do I finish this metaphor?)...mow it. I would think that made the choice harder.

At least we can agree that Cordy is pretty special though. 😉

 

[Kean]

See, I view it from the other side of that coin. Buffy believes that the grass is greener on the other side, and longs for it. Cordelia knows the grass is greener on the other side, and actively chooses not to...er....(how do I finish this metaphor?)...mow it. I would think that made the choice harder.

At least we can agree that Cordy is pretty special though. 😉

'mow it' LMAO

We are definitely agreed that Cordy is beaucoup d'awesome😀

I will say this though, during Buffy's 18th Birthday she was faced with being a regular joe and not having to fight the fight and she rejected it. She couldn't turn away from the mission, much like Cordy. She may whinge and whine but I think Buffy's hero's heart is just as strong as Cordy's when tested.

 

[Vtheslayer]

See, I view it from the other side of that coin. Buffy believes that the grass is greener on the other side, and longs for it. Cordelia knows the grass is greener on the other side, and actively chooses not to...er....(how do I finish this metaphor?)...mow it. I would think that made the choice harder.

At least we can agree that Cordy is pretty special though. 😉

That is admirable indeed but she was all about me, me, me originally yet then she suddenly changes her ways so that she sacraficies everything alomost to the point of foolishness. Yes what she did for Angel (ie becoming half demon) was admirable as it helped him out with his fight but she went too far witrh trusting Skip and abandoning Angel. It annoys me everytime.

 

[Lindsey McDonald]

That is admirable indeed but she was all about me, me, me originally yet then she suddenly changes her ways so that she sacraficies everything alomost to the point of foolishness. Yes what she did for Angel (ie becoming half demon) was admirable as it helped him out with his fight but she went too far witrh trusting Skip and abandoning Angel. It annoys me everytime.

But why would she question a person who she has every reason to believe is a messenger of the PTB? The viewer didn't. I think you're viewing this through hindsight way too much.

Edit:

Heh. Person.

 

[Vtheslayer]

But why would she question a person who she has every reason to believe is a messenger of the PTB? The viewer didn't. I think you're viewing this through hindsight way too much.

Edit:

Heh. Person.

Nah I pretty much suspected Skip. After all, he was guarding that hell gate that Angel encounters earlier on in the series. Plus look at the way he looks, not very heavenly is he?!

 

[celestialarrow]

You know I've always thought Cordy's decision to become a higher being was very like her. By Season 3 of Angel Cordy had become devoted to serving the powers and when given the opportunity to do more good on a larger scale she took it. And contrary to what some have said about her leaving she had to make a choice between her heart or the greater good and she chose the latter.

Did it work out so well not so much but her willingness to leave all she'd known behind to do more good is beyond selfless. And very much who Cordy had become as a person at that point.