Did Dawn unintentionally caused the death of Joyce?

[Joshua]

Do you think that Dawn unintentionally caused the death of Joyce? Because Joyce was a healthy woman before Dawn was brought into the world. Then all of sudden, Joyce is dying of a brain tumor.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I dont think so, I originally thought it was going to be something like that at the time, becasue Dawns existence messed with memories and the general area of the brain, but when it wasn't addressed on the show I think it means it had no part to play.

I think it might have been said off the show that the two weren't connected, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I'm glad it wasn't addressed on the show, that would have been a horrible story to give to Dawn, I dont think I would have liked her reaction.

 

[JCoatsworth]

I don't think so. I don't know how Dawn or the monks who "created" her could have caused Joyce's brain tumor.

Besides, I always thought Joyce's death was kind of ironic. Buffy saved the world a number of times and the only thing she can't defeat is nature. I think if the tumor had a supernatural origin, Joyce would be just another victim of evil forces.

 

[Lyri]

Something as big as this - Dawn's existence putting an end to Joyce's - would have been addressed on the show. It's too big of a plot point to just be ignored, which leads me to believe that Dawn - or, more accurately, the monks who created Dawn, because let's be honest, Dawn is completely innocent here - had nothing to do with Joyce's illness.

I also agree with [MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION] - I'm glad that was never a part of the show. Dawn had such a horrible time dealing with the fact that she wasn't real, throwing this at her would have just been too much for her to take, especially when NONE of what happened was Dawn's fault.

 

[buffffy]

I don't think so. Perfectly healthy people develop tumors on the regular.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

A few minor points here.
If Joyce hadn't been told she had a brain tumour she would still have died.
How long does it take to be told you (Joyce) have a brain tumour? At some point the specialist or doctor will have to say the words, 'you have a brain tumour' and that only take 1 or 3 seconds. Or as you put it, all of a sudden.
The show had up to then dealt predominantly with the supernatural.

Black Eye Guy,
Only the memories of people were changed, no physical changes were made to the brain. Can you imagine how difficult it would have been for the monks to have altered each persons brain? As each persons memories would have been stored in a different way.

Was it stated on the show exactly where the tumour was, was it a fast growing or slow growing tumour, as it might have been in her head before she moved to Sunnydale.
Mine was found in 1999 but they thought it started in 1969 when I had a head injury.

 

[Blaze]

ILLYRIAN has a good point, unless it was a very fast growing and aggressive tumour, it most likely was there before Dawn was made. In the case that it was very fast growing and aggressive, she would have not only received the surgery, but most likely a very strong dosage of chemotherapy to go along with it, so I'm going to assume it started growing a while ago.

 

[TiMER]

I'd guess it would have been there a while before season 5.

 

[white avenger]

There hasn't been any connection shown between Dawn's appearance and Joyce's death up to this point, but that's no guarantee that Joss won't drag it out as a plot twist in some future story. It wouldn't be the first time he's done something like that.

For now, though, Dawn's in the clear.

 

[SRMarx]

I don't think so. I thought the two events were supposed to be entirely independent of one another.

 

[itssmiletime]

I really like the idea of Joyce dying from a natural death. Don't get me wrong- Joyce's death was incredibly sad and her loss was felt- yet I'm glad Whedon opted for a natural, non- murder death. In all of this- the monks, Glory, the key, the spell... Dawn is the victim. She is innocent. She doesn't deserve a shred of hate or blame. Anyone, no matter how healthy, can get sick.

@ Illyrain We should remember that when it comes to medicine- yeah, drama and plot will always win over logic and fact, as frustrating and annoying as that may be- and even more so when it comes to Willow's addiction arc. Terrible response, I know.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Something as big as this - Dawn's existence putting an end to Joyce's - would have been addressed on the show. It's too big of a plot point to just be ignored, which leads me to believe that Dawn - or, more accurately, the monks who created Dawn, because let's be honest, Dawn is completely innocent here - had nothing to do with Joyce's illness.

I also agree with [MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION] - I'm glad that was never a part of the show. Dawn had such a horrible time dealing with the fact that she wasn't real, throwing this at her would have just been too much for her to take, especially when NONE of what happened was Dawn's fault.

I agree; I think if it was meant to be implied that Dawn's arrival/existence caused Joyce to be sick, it would have been addressed on the show. I think Joyce's death was just a horrible coincidence, and it was the writers' way of bringing back a little bit of reality into a show based in supernatural elements; they wanted to show that even Buffy can't stop every kind of evil or "big bad" out there.

 

[Evil Angelus 95]

As people have said before me, I think the fact that they didn't address it on the show, where it could be right out in the open, is evidence enough that Dawn wasn't the cause of the tumor.

 

[Kean]

Joss has spoken about how Joyce's death was designed to be incredibly normal, to be the thing that Buffy and the gang couldn't fight against. It was all part of the season's arc of being a human and how trying to live a life was the hardest thing to contend with. Demons are easy and straightforward by comparison. Joyce died for no reason, which is the cruelest reason of all.

 

[AnthonyCordova]

I agree about liking the idea that Joyce's tumor came about naturally. That was part of the power invoked by Joyce's death. It was powerful partly because it was something that Buffy (nor anybody else) could do anything about. There were no supernatural methods to save a good person this time.