Did Faith and the Principal work?

[silvermoon]

I am not sure I'm adding anything new to the insights above, but I just wanted to add my vote. I actually love Robin and Faith together. I see Robin having a lot of insight and the patience to break down Faith's walls and 'surprise' her.

Faith thinks she's seen everything (but she's wrong). She thinks all men are dogs. She doesn't think any man is worth the trouble of getting seriously involved. She's afraid of involvement or anything that might require trust.

Robin is someone who is confident enough and a man of the world enough to not bore her -- and to prove to her that she has lots more to see and learn. I always think he's more 'worldly' than she is... educated and experienced by virtue of being exposed to a lot of life -- as well as knowing first hand about the slayer. He's not afraid of her or her strength. He is also gentle and I think Faith has not had many men be gentle.

I also loved their chemistry.

I am not really bothered that he dated Buffy first. It actually is telling that he has a type... he likes strong women. But Buffy isn't for him for a variety of reasons, including simply not being interested in him beyond finding him initially attractive. The suspicion that grows up very early in their romantic interaction also pushes them back into their own corners. I don't think their chemistry is anything as good as the chemistry between Robin and Faith... Robin and Faith make me laugh, touch me and intrigue me. I find them sexy together. I got the feeling Buffy was going through the motions even though I think there was some attraction, it wasn't all that. Their personalities (Buffy and Robin) kind of clash.

By contrast, Faith and Robin just wanted a bit of warm comfort, so they connected without too many expectations -- but I think from the beginning, Robin was intrigued. And Faith was surprised to connect... and it's clear she has.. because she's running away, exactly the reaction of someone who doesn't trust easily when they find themselves getting attached, However, as soon as Robin is injured, you see her real show concern for him.

Just because they are an interesting match doesn't mean I don't foresee problems.

She has little formal education. (canon is that she dropped out of high school). Robin has to have a master's or maybe even a PhD in order to be a principal. In addition, he's been raised (and probably educated by a watcher. I suspect he learned a lot of about being a watcher and about slayers) I think this knowledge deficit would bother Faith more than it bothers Robin. I think he can see she's smart and that she has potential for miles, though I suspect he might think about it, I suspect his answer would be to encourage her to develop herself. I think she might meet some of his university friends and feel intimidated and wonder if he'll stay with her when he has his pick of smart, attractive, educated, high earning women, and also maybe even black women, though there's no sign he has any issues with dating a white woman, the sample size in Sunnydale wasn't exactly big.

I've shipped them as a secondary ship in at least a couple of my stories and even started a side story from the main story that looks more deeply at their relationship. I love exploring them.

I definitely think they're my 'one true pairing'(for Faith) in the Buffyverse... In crossoverville, there's a lot out there. (I like writing crossover stories)

love this post! your insights are all excellent. I feel the same way about the education issue. it would be a problem. she's street smart for days but isn't exactly a budding intellectual. but I think that's part of her pose. I have the feeling Faith would do really well given some encouragement in school. Buffy and Robin are different, too different. they don't have heat the way he and Faith do. and he interacts with her very differently. partly it's the roles they play, but it's still telling.

 

[Cohen]

I wish we'd had more time with her in s7 (or she'd become a permanent cast member over on AtS). She had a really good redemption arc.

We might have gotten more of her on ATS had Eliza not been committed to Tru Calling. I agree. Her arc was fantastic.

I always thought Faith and Angel had more of a sibling chemistry than anything else, but I know some people do ship them. They would certainly be a good looking couple.

Agreed with the sibling/close friend relationship. Initially, in BTVS s3, I think Angel represented an object of Buffy's that Faith coveted, but by being there for her in Sanctuary and regularly visiting her (as seen in Judgment), it developed a close familial relationship between them. This is also echoed in her return during ATS s4.



As far as Faith and Robin, I think it worked for the short timeframe in s7, but like others have pointed out, there wasn't enough time to really explore a dynamic with them. Regardless of the comics canon, without the situational necessity of them being in Sunnydale together, I don't see them as longterm. Faith was still on her redemption journey. Robin probably needed to become a rogue demon hunter or something following season 7. As a character, we don't really see much development outside of "Lies my Parents told me," so it's kind of hard to judge how the pairing would have worked beyond Chosen.

 

[thrasherpix]

What a shame we didn't get Faith and Gunn in s5 on AtS. Would've loved to have seen that!

This thread has got me imagining Faith in season 5 Angel. I see her affected by the memory spell (which also causes the police to forget about her), but she insists on going with Wesley and Illyria in the ep Origin where the magic lantern is broken restoring the memories of those near it (including Connor). Having Faith fully reboot as her normal self could be very interesting if done well. But I don't know what she'd be doing for Wolfram & Hart.

Still, Joss wanted/needed Gunn to feel for Fred to add to the misery. But then he loves jealousy, too, so many Faith could be jealous. Maybe after Faith regained her memories she might relate to Gunn a lot more considering everything, though I'd think Gunn would feel too guilty to reciprocate by that time in season 5.

I'm also oddly curious what conflicting memory spells might do. I presume Faith had her mind altered to remember Dawn so Vail's memory spell might react to the older spell. Maybe the spell of remembering Dawn would have to be undone to install the new memories. I don't know, it might be interesting if in a trivial way.

 

[Btvs fan]

We might have gotten more of her on ATS had Eliza not been committed to Tru Calling. I agree. Her arc was fantastic.


Agreed with the sibling/close friend relationship. Initially, in BTVS s3, I think Angel represented an object of Buffy's that Faith coveted, but by being there for her in Sanctuary and regularly visiting her (as seen in Judgment), it developed a close familial relationship between them. This is also echoed in her return during ATS s4.



As far as Faith and Robin, I think it worked for the short timeframe in s7, but like others have pointed out, there wasn't enough time to really explore a dynamic with them. Regardless of the comics canon, without the situational necessity of them being in Sunnydale together, I don't see them as longterm. Faith was still on her redemption journey. Robin probably needed to become a rogue demon hunter or something following season 7. As a character, we don't really see much development outside of "Lies my Parents told me," so it's kind of hard to judge how the pairing would have worked beyond Chosen.

This is incorrect. Her Angel episodes happened long before. Tru Calling happened after Buffy and Angel. Now We would have gotten a Faith spin off instead of Tru Calling but she turned that down (I wish she hadn't)

 

[thetopher]

Having Faith fully reboot as her normal self could be very interesting if done well. But I don't know what she'd be doing for Wolfram & Hart.

I always imagined W&H Faith would act as liaison between team Angel and the Scoobs but also as 'Head Of Security' instead of any legal department; the running joke is that W&H security is woeful, she's quite bad at her assigned job...but she is pretty good at killing intruders and getting her office threads all mussed. lol.

 

[Cohen]

This is incorrect. Her Angel episodes happened long before. Tru Calling happened after Buffy and Angel. Now We would have gotten a Faith spin off instead of Tru Calling but she turned that down (I wish she hadn't)

No, the first season of Tru Calling aired concurrently with Angel Season 5. It premiered in October 2003. She was offered a Faith spinoff but she chose Tru Calling instead. Had the Faith spinoff happened, we may have gotten a crossover episode or even another season of Angel.

 

[Cohen]

This thread has got me imagining Faith in season 5 Angel. I see her affected by the memory spell (which also causes the police to forget about her), but she insists on going with Wesley and Illyria in the ep Origin where the magic lantern is broken restoring the memories of those near it (including Connor). Having Faith fully reboot as her normal self could be very interesting if done well. But I don't know what she'd be doing for Wolfram & Hart.

Still, Joss wanted/needed Gunn to feel for Fred to add to the misery. But then he loves jealousy, too, so many Faith could be jealous. Maybe after Faith regained her memories she might relate to Gunn a lot more considering everything, though I'd think Gunn would feel too guilty to reciprocate by that time in season 5.

I'm also oddly curious what conflicting memory spells might do. I presume Faith had her mind altered to remember Dawn so Vail's memory spell might react to the older spell. Maybe the spell of remembering Dawn would have to be undone to install the new memories. I don't know, it might be interesting if in a trivial way.

I like the idea of exploring the ramifications of the memory spells. Technically, Wesley's memory should have been affected twice because he was Buffy's watcher at one point. While it's never shown that he actually interacts with Buffy's family, he would have probably had minimal interactions off screen. So he was (in theory) twice affected by the memory spells, as well.

Even if Faith were recurring in season 5, instead of a regular, it would have been interesting to see her interact with Angel Investigations at W&H. Especially considering she was paid by them to kill Angel 4 years prior. Maybe she would have assisted Spike some, as well, forming a bit of a Dark Angel Investigations vs the Whitehats in W&H tension. I wish they didn't dismantle the Hyperion set for W&H because we could have had Spike, Faith and maybe even Gwen set up at the Hyperion as this Dark AI crew. Maybe the AI team could have seen the error in their choices (especially after Fred's death) and they could have ended up back at the Hyperion after taking down the LA branch of W&H in the finale, setting up for the more global-scale W&H/LA in Hell vision for season 6.

Someone should write this as a fanfic. lol

 

[hoponlilmama]

We might have gotten more of her on ATS had Eliza not been committed to Tru Calling. I agree. Her arc was fantastic.

Absolutely.

However, I don't blame ED for taking the path she did. Following on from BTVS was going to be really tough, she understood its impact.
Now, if she had a number of actors guest starring on the Faith spin-off, or featuring as full-time cast members, it's likely BTVS fans would've followed.

 

[Cohen]

Absolutely.

However, I don't blame ED for taking the path she did. Following on from BTVS was going to be really tough, she understood its impact.
Now, if she had a number of actors guest starring on the Faith spin-off, or featuring as full-time cast members, it's likely BTVS fans would've followed.

Agreed! I really loved Tru Calling and hate that FOX killed it off just when the mythology was about to explode (and probably gain more viewers) for a new show that they took a gamble on (and LOST royally).

FYI: Tru Calling was canceled in the middle of Episode 6 production ("Twas the Night Before Christmas... Again") so FOX could have room on its midseason schedule for Point Pleasant. While Point Pleasant was spearheaded by Marti Noxon and fronted by Elizabeth Harnois (who played Alice in a syndicated Alice in Wonderland show in the mid-90s), it failed to attract viewers and was canceled in the same tv season as Tru Calling. Ironically, Tru Calling season 2 debuted in the Point Pleasant timeslot after Point Pleasant was canceled. lol.

But from what I know of the potential Faith spinoff, it seemed like it was going to be similar to Supernatural, (and may very well have inspired Kripke's concept, though thats my own speculation and nothings documented) where she would have been a traveling Slayer, stopping in different cities and towns. Which could have lended very well to guest spots by former Buffy/Angel characters, such as the Finns, Gwen Raiden, Season 7 Potentials that survived "Chosen" like Rona, and probably other main cast members like Willow/Kennedy and Xander.

Maybe we could have seen Faith and Robin together for a bit on the road, had the spinoff happen?

 

[hoponlilmama]

Agreed! I really loved Tru Calling and hate that FOX killed it off just when the mythology was about to explode (and probably gain more viewers) for a new show that they took a gamble on (and LOST royally).

FYI: Tru Calling was canceled in the middle of Episode 6 production ("Twas the Night Before Christmas... Again") so FOX could have room on its midseason schedule for Point Pleasant. While Point Pleasant was spearheaded by Marti Noxon and fronted by Elizabeth Harnois (who played Alice in a syndicated Alice in Wonderland show in the mid-90s), it failed to attract viewers and was canceled in the same tv season as Tru Calling. Ironically, Tru Calling season 2 debuted in the Point Pleasant timeslot after Point Pleasant was canceled. lol.

I've never actually seen Tru Calling! I did see a few episodes of Dollhouse, and it wasn't my cup of tea. Was TC doing well in the ratings?

But from what I know of the potential Faith spinoff, it seemed like it was going to be similar to Supernatural, (and may very well have inspired Kripke's concept, though thats my own speculation and nothings documented) where she would have been a traveling Slayer, stopping in different cities and towns. Which could have lended very well to guest spots by former Buffy/Angel characters, such as the Finns, Gwen Raiden, Season 7 Potentials that survived "Chosen" like Rona, and probably other main cast members like Willow/Kennedy and Xander.

This is my understanding too. That being said, I wonder if they did rope in a number of characters from AtS (Spike!) and BTVS, do you think maybe they'd have to pivot on the idea of a travelling Slayer? As in, she'd keep the travel to a minimum and have more of a 'home base' somewhere.

Maybe we could have seen Faith and Robin together for a bit on the road, had the spinoff happen?

Yes! Likely. It would make sense, considering what they had set up in the last two episodes of BTVS.

 

[NotASlayer]

This is my understanding too. That being said, I wonder if they did rope in a number of characters from AtS (Spike!) and BTVS, do you think maybe they'd have to pivot on the idea of a travelling Slayer? As in, she'd keep the travel to a minimum and have more of a 'home base' somewhere.

Supernatural did have a point where there was a home base - Bobby's - but the Winchesters rarely spent any time there. Bobby would talk to them on the phone, so we'd see him, as he was acting more as mission control, with them returning sometimes. So, I think a travelling Slayer could work, even with recurring characters.

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Re: Supernatural; It's the same network and a lot of the same writers. I assume a lot of unused Mutant Enemy projects DNA went into Supernatural.

If I'm the WB in 2005, I'm tired of paying the Kudzus, I'm tired of dealing with Joss, I'm tired of everything having to be about Feminist absurdism. Smallville works without Joss, try Supernatural..

I have no evidence for that either, but it does seem reasonable. You have a script idea that you never got around for Buffy? Pitch it to Supernatural. I mean, Babylon 5 fans take it as gospel that Star Trek plagerized the B5 series bible, and this has the same level of evidence.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Cohen The ratings season 1 were getting better when Jason Priestly came in but they canceled without any episodes airing of season 2!

What a shame it wasn't given a chance!