Did Glory Create Ben?
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NotASlayer
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TheXandyman
Boost Bars. Fatty goodness.
I always thought of it as he was created in the same fashion as Dawn - when Glory got banished to the mortal dimension, Ben pinged into existence with everyone's memories being altered. But I could be wrong.
Hunga Munga
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Isn't there something in the script about it ? She was imprisoned in baby Ben but learnt to break out ?
TheXandyman
That just made me think of Ben from 'Friends'.
NotASlayer
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VampireSlayer07
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I believe Ben was essentially created to host Glory's essence but as he grew up she became powerful enough to take over and manifest herself.
I think Ben may be working for Glory 🤔
Skanky Vamp
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No. Yes. No. I am pretty sure that all of that was in the show. How they put her into the body of a newborn, not that they made a newborn for her to inhabit because that would be really friggin stupid of them.
alrightwithmoo
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That aspect of the lore never made sense. Glory and the Key are meant to be ancient with the whole mythos around her. The Knights are an ancient order bound to defend against her. But how did that happen if Glory was only pressed into Ben 20-something years ago?
Skanky Vamp
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Because prior to that, Glory and the other two hell-gods got along. It's just when they fought and at the end the other two hell-gods won and sent her essense to earth.
How she got in Ben has nothing to do with the Knights or the Monks or the Key.
alrightwithmoo
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But the Knights knew the legend. "Countless generations of my people have sacrificed their lives in search of it." How could the Knights know all the goings on in another dimension and how could there be generations of Knights if Glory was just sent to this dimension in the 80s?
Skanky Vamp
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Many people knew of the goings on in other dimensions. I assumed it was based on past experience in dealing with those people. Just like the monks and the key.
alrightwithmoo
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Did they? The only beings we know of that knew factors in other dimensions were characters like Anya, who had been there or constructed them.
But thinking on it, I suppose the whole thing could be explained by time differential between dimensions.
NotASlayer
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The Order of Dagon looked for the Key, as did the Knights of Byzantium.
The Key is a mystical nexus that has been around for millennia that can open the path between dimensions; despite Glory calling it "hers," it likely isn't.
Glory lost a war with her fellow hell gods and was forced into the body of Ben, who may or may not have been created specifically to contain her, probably by the other hell gods, in 1976. Though it isn't known when she lost the war.
Both the Order and the Knights had been around for a long time before that, seeking the Key and guarding against Glory. Both could easily know about Glory's actions in another dimension, as both had access to magic. Powerful magic as well it looked like.
They may well be a big ball of timey-wimey stuff going on because it looks like the Knights and Order were defending against Glory and searching for the Key before she was put into Ben. Maybe they could see the future?
The Key is a mystical nexus that has been around for millennia that can open the path between dimensions; despite Glory calling it "hers," it likely isn't.
Glory lost a war with her fellow hell gods and was forced into the body of Ben, who may or may not have been created specifically to contain her, probably by the other hell gods, in 1976. Though it isn't known when she lost the war.
Both the Order and the Knights had been around for a long time before that, seeking the Key and guarding against Glory. Both could easily know about Glory's actions in another dimension, as both had access to magic. Powerful magic as well it looked like.
They may well be a big ball of timey-wimey stuff going on because it looks like the Knights and Order were defending against Glory and searching for the Key before she was put into Ben. Maybe they could see the future?
Skanky Vamp
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More than likely they were just trying to be prepared. Better to be holding the trump card before you need it than scrambling, as they did, to find it when it was too late. Similar to nuclear armaments as being a deterrent to being the victim of an attack.
Dogs of Winter
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Or maybe the writers just liked the idea of having medieval knights but didn't think it through !
Skanky Vamp
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Nah. I can't imagine that to be the case at all. Everything was well thought out and planned for in advance. There is foreshadowing everywhere and all the dialogue has secret, deeper meanings. I can't believe they would just randomly introduce someone or something just because it was cool without any additional thoughts on it. Good writers are the ones that leave so many plot holes it's up to the audience to try to ascertain and discern the meaning.
AlphaFoxtrot
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WMG Tags.
Eh, what I understood it to mean, is Ben was the mortal reincarnation of Glorificus, whom the Dragon and the Ziz expected to trap him in the cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Glorificus, having learned of the Key, was enough of a goal to pull himself together, and through his cult, was able to put the magic in place to create the avatar Glory. That's why Ben will die if Glory rejoins the Triarchy. He's not a separate person, just an aspect of Glorificus.
Re: The Key. I suspect the Key was an object that was used in the old magics to turn the universe into a multiverse. I suspect the Monks were a group of Greek Alchemists who were tricked by a Demon into retrieving the key from it's hiding place, from which the valor of the Knights was able to save them from the Demon. The Knights would do this every couple of years. The Monks were able to learn much from their study of the Key, including using it to open and create pocket dimensions, which is where they were hiding all these years. However, Glory broke what a thousand other malefactors could not.
I don't think the Key and The Beast are linked. Like, it's more like Loki deciding he wants to take Excalibur, Prydinn, The Pendragon Banner, The Sangreal and the Holy Lance while on a Viking raid. I mean, the original idea probably was, but then they made the Key older than old, and Ben being born in the 1970s.
Of course, Demon Dimensions don't work on the same timescales that we do, so 1970s to us, 100000 bc to them.
Eh, what I understood it to mean, is Ben was the mortal reincarnation of Glorificus, whom the Dragon and the Ziz expected to trap him in the cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Glorificus, having learned of the Key, was enough of a goal to pull himself together, and through his cult, was able to put the magic in place to create the avatar Glory. That's why Ben will die if Glory rejoins the Triarchy. He's not a separate person, just an aspect of Glorificus.
Re: The Key. I suspect the Key was an object that was used in the old magics to turn the universe into a multiverse. I suspect the Monks were a group of Greek Alchemists who were tricked by a Demon into retrieving the key from it's hiding place, from which the valor of the Knights was able to save them from the Demon. The Knights would do this every couple of years. The Monks were able to learn much from their study of the Key, including using it to open and create pocket dimensions, which is where they were hiding all these years. However, Glory broke what a thousand other malefactors could not.
I don't think the Key and The Beast are linked. Like, it's more like Loki deciding he wants to take Excalibur, Prydinn, The Pendragon Banner, The Sangreal and the Holy Lance while on a Viking raid. I mean, the original idea probably was, but then they made the Key older than old, and Ben being born in the 1970s.
Of course, Demon Dimensions don't work on the same timescales that we do, so 1970s to us, 100000 bc to them.
AlphaFoxtrot
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P.S. In Mythology and Religion, the number three keeps coming up. Perhaps gods are like the Circle of the Blackthorn, as a council, they are unstoppable, but apart, they are just demons. Or Wolfram & Hart. To rule a demon Dimension, three strong demons have to join forces to become greater than the sum of their parts? Just idle speculation, I don't know where I would go with this. The point is, I don't think Glory could kill the other two outright, but could probably dominate them again.
I also assume Demon Gods are worshipped across different demon dimensions. Like, being an arch demon isn't just enough, you need worshippers and sacrifices from others. I assume that most of the humanoid demons come from demon dimensions that are close to earth, frequency wise, and were originally staging grounds for half human orc armies that were intended to invade the middle realms (frankly, in a Lovecraftian world, that a mortal realm would just be overlooked by the Old Ones seems the most likely outcome.) before the Old Ones, who were severely wounded in their banishment from Earth, drifted away into sleep and dreaming, abandoning their worshippers and children. This left room for "new gods" much like the Senior Partners, legates, priests, emissaries and ambassadors now becoming the kings they used to represent, establishing their own cults. I mean, I think every demon fancies themselves a god who has been deprived of their birthright, and none would refuse divine honors if given, but Glory is clearly different in this respect.
Or, Glory could just be a Outer God, and most of the demons we meet are basically Deep Ones. Show should probably explain its mythology better.
I also assume Demon Gods are worshipped across different demon dimensions. Like, being an arch demon isn't just enough, you need worshippers and sacrifices from others. I assume that most of the humanoid demons come from demon dimensions that are close to earth, frequency wise, and were originally staging grounds for half human orc armies that were intended to invade the middle realms (frankly, in a Lovecraftian world, that a mortal realm would just be overlooked by the Old Ones seems the most likely outcome.) before the Old Ones, who were severely wounded in their banishment from Earth, drifted away into sleep and dreaming, abandoning their worshippers and children. This left room for "new gods" much like the Senior Partners, legates, priests, emissaries and ambassadors now becoming the kings they used to represent, establishing their own cults. I mean, I think every demon fancies themselves a god who has been deprived of their birthright, and none would refuse divine honors if given, but Glory is clearly different in this respect.
Or, Glory could just be a Outer God, and most of the demons we meet are basically Deep Ones. Show should probably explain its mythology better.