Did Spike Beat Faith?

[Buffyverse Fan]

They thought he was until then was his point, I think.

Yeah, but the point he's trying to make is that human blood makes vampires stronger (read his original post). And over and over again he says Connor's blood making Angel hyperactive proves that human blood makes vampires better fighters.

His point makes no sense, aside from the fact that it's true that human blood makes Blade (Wesley Snipes) stronger than his serum. But I have not heard that Blade is one of Joss Whedon's guys 😉

There's zero evidence that normal human blood increases vampires' power level. In fact it contradicts the fact that Spike & Angel remain a notch above the human-eating variety, even after they move to pig & otters. I'd say Spike is even stronger in 2004 than he was at his evil peak.

Slayer blood & Demon blood can mess with vampires and make them stronger (Hamilton, Mohra, Buffy), but there's no evidence that normal human blood does anything more than taste better and have more concentrated nutritional value.

Plain old Angel fed like a normal vamp, from a live human, a total of one time on-screen, and Lawson's blood didn't seem to do what this guy's claiming.

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

It's an oversimplified example that ignores the fact that nutrition consists of dozens of different elements. Your original analogy was that human blood was more nutritious than pig blood.

You might want to check this out:
"Example"
"Analogy"

Following that logic, it would be reasonable to assume that human blood possesses certain nutrients that pig blood does not or possess them in much greater quantities than pig blood.

Actually, white avenger and I were referring to concentration (hence our examples, analogies, and the fact that's what we said...).

You're assuming that human physiology applies to demons. Vampires can live indefinitely without blood, humans cannot live indefinitely without food, oxygen, or water. Higher concentrations of nutrients are needed for humans because weakened human bodies are less able to process lower concentrations. Vampires don't have that problem. A vampire's body can continue to process blood regardless of how long they've gone without it since their bodies don't degrade in the same way as humans. In fact, as mentioned before, they're immortal with or without blood.

No, we're assuming that concentration applies to the Buffyverse.

 

[Giantevilhead]

Yeah, but the point he's trying to make is that human blood makes vampires stronger (read his original post). And over and over again he says Connor's blood making Angel hyperactive proves that human blood makes vampires better fighters.

His point makes no sense, aside from the fact that it's true that human blood makes Blade (Wesley Snipes) stronger than his serum. But I have not heard that Blade is one of Joss Whedon's guys 😉

There's zero evidence that normal human blood increases vampires' power level. In fact it contradicts the fact that Spike & Angel remain a notch above the human-eating variety, even after they move to pig & otters. I'd say Spike is even stronger in 2004 than he was at his evil peak.

Slayer blood & Demon blood can mess with vampires and make them stronger (Hamilton, Mohra, Buffy), but there's no evidence that normal human blood does anything more than taste better and have more concentrated nutritional value.

Plain old Angel fed like a normal vamp, from a live human, a total of one time on-screen, and Lawson's blood didn't seem to do what this guy's claiming.

What you don't seem to understand is that the characters thought that Angel became more aggressive because he was drinking human blood before they found out that it was Connor's blood and way before they found out that Connor wasn't human. Why would they simply assume that Angel became more aggressive because he was drinking human blood if human blood doesn't have a different effect on vampires than pig blood?

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------


You might want to check this out:
"Example"
"Analogy"


Actually, white avenger and I were referring to concentration (hence our examples, analogies, and the fact that's what we said...).

Hence more nutritious, as I said. I didn't say anything more, neither did Wes.

No, we're assuming that concentration applies to the Buffyverse.

You're assuming that concentration matters to demons. The fact that vampires can subsist on pig blood, which you're assuming to have a lower concentration of some life giving substance, shows that it doesn't really matter since that's the equivalent of humans being able to survive by breathing in three as much air when oxygen concentrations is a third of what it normally is.

 

[Hero]

Tough question!

For the people who said Faith was weakened because she got her ass KICKED by Angel and The Beast, and she was just got out of jail.... Spike was just getting back to normal after getting his soul back. Buffy even noted in Get It Done (?) that Spike was a weaker fighter after he got his soul back. Think about it, Faith gave Caleb a few good hits. Spike only got off one kick.

I do agree that Spike is easily a better fighter though. He's had a little more than a hundred years to train himself. I don't think Faith has any training with defense. Spike knows how to fight defensive and offensively, Faith doesn't. She's all about offense, but that could come in handy because all she could need is one really well placed punch to end it.

On the whole, Buffy vs Faith scenario... Well, back then Faith was new and Buffy was 3 years into it. Buffy's fighting skills have improved exponentially over the years. Think about Buffy's fighting skills at the beginning of season two compared to her fighting Glory towards the end of season five. She's improved so much, Faith really hasn't.

Faith is a survivor though. I think she has what it takes to win a fight at all costs. I mean, look at how she drugged Angel. She knew that there was a HUGE chance she was going to die, but she pulled out all the stops to make sure she beat him.

I really, really think Spike and Faith are even and it would be a draw. But...I like Faith more so I'm going to say her because I'm biased. 🙂 lol

 

[white avenger]

Tough question!

For the people who said Faith was weakened because she got her ass KICKED by Angel and The Beast, and she was just got out of jail.... Spike was just getting back to normal after getting his soul back. Buffy even noted in Get It Done (?) that Spike was a weaker fighter after he got his soul back. Think about it, Faith gave Caleb a few good hits. Spike only got off one kick.

I really, really think Spike and Faith are even and it would be a draw. But...I like Faith more so I'm going to say her because I'm biased. 🙂 lol

Faith had pretty much recovered from her fights with the Beast and Angel by the time she got to Sunnydale. As we've seen before, even the most severe injuries don't slow a Slayer down for long, thanks to their healing abilities. Faith would not be at her top form as a fighter more because of lack of practice (no demons to fight in prison, and even the worst inmate would have been next to no competition). Otherwise, I believe that she would have made a better showing against the Beast and Angel.

Buffy's comment about Spike's not being "the old Spike, the one who almost killed me when we first met" was more about his attitude than his skill. As he said, he no longer "relished the kill" the way that he once had. Spike still had the power, the skills, and, thanks to Buffy's little pep talk, he regained the motivation required to be the fighter that he had been before.

With both fighters in top form, I agree, the match would be pretty close to even, bit I would have to give Spike at least a slight edge.

As for what happened with Caleb, I think that he was able to beat Buffy, Spike, and Faith when they first met more from a surprise factor than from any real fighting skills. Caleb, like Hamilton the next year on "Angel," never actually demonstrated any really exceptional fighting skills whatsoever. Both men were just so powerful, due to being joined with the First Evil and the Senior Partners, respectively, that it was almost impossible to hurt them. Buffy never actually beat Caleb until she used the Scythe, and Angel wasn't able to defeat Hamilton until after he had gotten the boost from his blood.