Did the "Ted" episode kind of bug anyone else?

[dexeded]

No, she's not. You can't simultaneously be a human being and something else, you're either human or you're not. Dawn is supernatural being, her memories are fake, she was created as a result of magical tinkering and brainwashing. Buffy's not a human either, since season 7 we know that she's pretty much a demon.

Doyle is half-demon, half-human. Do you deem him 'pretty much a demon'?

Dawn was created by supernatural means, but she was created to be a human; ergo, she is human. Biologically and physically and mentally speaking, she is a human. What other gauge would you use?

Power. The same power that allows her to punch things very hard and see the future in prophetic dreams. It's all a part of the package. It's magic, it's not rational.

Physical strength and Slayer dreams. Established 'part of the package'. Your conjecture is not.

Remember Judge?

"No weapon forged can harm me"

He cannot be killed with forged weapons. Done, it's magic. It's part of the spell that created him or a part of his inherent power, we don't know his origin. Slayers are similar, except it looks like this:

"You cannot kill me unless I want to die."

Done. She cannot be killed because the spell that created the Slayer line says so. You can throw bombs at her and it will not work. It's not rational, it's magic. The Master was the only guy ever that managed to kill The Slayer that wanted to live ( "Giles, I'm 16 years old. I don't want to die." ) and just because he discovered the only way to completely turn off her power, by bringing her into the proximity of the cosmic egg and...it still did not work, thanks to that butt monkey Xander Harris.

Lore.

This is not lore. This is not canon. This is fanwank. Nowhere in canon does it even hint that 'the spell that created the Slayer line says so'.

Did Kendra die because she wanted to?

Why yes, of course. That's why we have judiciary, there are different kinds of fault etc. Geez, look it up. One of Faith's murders was more or less accidental and she was trialed for it as well after all. It's bullshit because she's not a human being and shouldn't be trialed at all but whatever.



Self defense has limits too. Google it.

"A person may use non-deadly force to prevent imminent injury, however a person may not use deadly force unless that person is in reasonable fear of serious injury or death."
Buffy didn't use deadly force. She pushed him aside.

Buffy is more important to them than their personal well-being and safety and the well-being and safety of their loved ones.

Buffy is one of their loved ones. They would risk their own lives for her. Other people's lives? Not unless absolutely necessary or the other people agreed.

Willow would have brought Buffy again, she says so herself, she could not live without her. Magic addiction, Tara's death, almost-Armageddon, all the pain and suffering, it was worth it to her. If that's not an obsession then I don't know what is.

That's Willow's storyline, and it has nothing to do with bearing pain for Buffy. The only 'for Buffy' aspect to it is that the resurrection spell dove her into the even darker magicks. Willow didn't give up Tara for Buffy; that was an unforeseen death. Unless you mean by having Tara around Buffy, Tara's life was in danger--which is kind of true(?), but Tara was Buffy's friend and would risk her own life for Buffy too. Plus, Willow was stopped by Xander's friendship, not Buffy.

No. There's nothing contradictory about those statements. Vampires are garbage, torturing them turns you into the same sort of garbage. It's like with animals, it's OK to kill them to eat their meat, make clothes out of their fur and so on ( yes, I know that not everybody shares that view ) but torturing them is all sorts of wrong. We extend some of our human moral rules onto non-humans. It's very much OK to slay a vampire but torture? Way uncool.

Ah, I see. How about this? They were about to raise The Master. Very, very soon. Buffy did what she needed to do to get the info. Now, I'm not denying that it is a morally grey moment, but no more than S6. (S6 includes the mistreatment of a vamp, this scene is the mistreatment of a vamp, but S6 is an entire season of such mistreatment versus this incident which was out of necessity.)

They're willing to suffer for her. Loose a loved one, loose a body part, go insane - whatever it takes, no regrets. They may question her decisions but in the end they always follow her orders and they're willing to do just about anything for her.

Willow and Xander are basically minions, they simply don't realize it.

They are loyal and loving friends. They risk life and limb for her because they love her and believe in what she does. As for loved ones? Not so much. All their loved ones were willing to fight the good fight alongside Buffy as well--except Anya. But when Anya's death finally came, she had already changed; she was determined to fight alongside them, willing to risk her death.

 

[Robb Stark]

Hey guys, while I have enjoyed reading the back and forth (and it has been interesting), I think we're kind of straying from the topic question here. Could be a cool idea for it's own thread though.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Please make sure to discuss the topic civilly, folks. This is your 1 warning; if it gets out of hand, we will have to close the thread.

 

[SlayerFest]

They were eating cookies at that time so I doubt it would have helped haha and it happened so fast. I seriously wouldn't have told everyone at that point in time because I need time to process things. And the timing just didn't feel right, imo. So I understand why she did't tell them all at the golf course, I mean maybe she didn't want to ruin their fun, although my concern wouldn't have been about their fun, at all haha. I just hate awkward situations, but I would have told my mom later. Although...I'm not a vampire slayer. If I were, I would have dropkicked him right there. Talk about an awkward car ride home.

Is it sad that I got really hungry as I typed this? Ugh I'm so having mini pizzas and chocolate chip cookies for dinner tomorrow.

---------- Post added at 09:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 AM ----------

Essentially, "Ted" sucks.

My biggest problem with this episode is Buffy's reaction after she supposedly kills Ted. It was more or less an accident but more importantly, Buffy had murdered before. In "The Pack" she throws a human into a pit full of demon-hyenas where he is eaten alive. Cold blood, no regrets. And now she's feeling guilty? Ridiculous.

The hyena guy was possessed and he had possessed himself...haha there was no hope for the guy, and she was saving Willow's life. However, she beat up Ted because she was pissed off. She felt bad because she thought he was just some regular annoying guy, not a possessed, psychotic, hyena man (or robot, in this case). Also, he was her mom's boyfriend, hence the massive guilt. I think it had more to do with that than anything.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=8557]Skytteflickan88[/MENTION]

There's no way to reach consensus about what a demon and a human is

No, it's actually very simple. We know what humans are, we know what characterizes them, everything that doesn't share those basic characteristics is not human. Humans don't have inherent supernatural abilities, therefore beings with inherent supernatural abilities are not human. Simple. Witches are human because the source of their power is external, Slayers and vampires are not, their power comes from within them.

How can anyone even question Buffy's non-humanity after season 7 and 8? She confirms it herself in "The Long Way Home, Part Four". Humanity is the price Slayers pay for their powers, ever since the first one.

as in she grew up human, has a human body & brain, feels human, act human

A human child raised by wolves is still a human child. You can dress a monkey in human clothes, and teach it to serve drinks, guess what, it's still a monkey.

and probably has a human soul.

No. The Slayer is imbued with a soul of a demon, it's canon.

Why assume it's magic?

Because it's Buffyverse, it's always magic. Duh.

And why would you assume The Master turned off her power? Or that the seed could affect her that way?

Because that's what happens in "Last Gleaming, Part Four".

If the police and followed that logic, they would have killed her, since then she had no human rights. Look it up.

No, because the police can't do anything that's not allowed by the law. Last I checked, there weren't any kill demons on sight rules. And it's not even about human rights, Faith, Buffy and every other Slayer lack competency to be trailed, just like monkeys, pigs and whatnot because they're not human beings.

When did she say that "Magic addiction, Tara's death, almost-Armageddon, all the pain and suffering, it was worth it to her." I seriously doubt she even hinted at that.

In one of the latest issues of "Angel & Faith". It's canon.

[MENTION=11500]drizzlydaze[/MENTION]

Doyle is half-demon, half-human.

There's no such thing as a half-human like there's no such thing as a half-whore.

What other gauge would you use?

The one that actually matters. Human blood doesn't open portals to other realities, humans are not mystical balls of energy and humans cannot exist without their bodies, like Dawn clearly did before Monks' doings.

Did Kendra die because she wanted to?

Kendra died because there can be only one chosen one (Faith~, "Twilight, Part Four" ) We know from "The Chain" that Buffy's different than the other "Slayers", they share her strength and the reflexes but that's it. What they lack is the limitlessness of the chosen one, " I am destruction. Absolute.", in the words of The First Slayer. Absolute destruction, absolute as in cannot be stopped. The First Slayer freaking tells it herself in one of the most important episodes of the show, how is that a fanwank? It's a feature of The Slayer which Kendra, Faith, 2003 Slayers lack, just like Melaka Fray lacks prophetic dreams because Kendra, Faith, 2003 Slayers and Harth Fray were never meant to happen, they are an accident, a loophole, an anomaly.

[MENTION=11975]Always Bangel[/MENTION]

Hey guys, while I have enjoyed reading the back and forth (and it has been interesting), I think we're kind of straying from the topic question here.

Change the topic then. Thanks in advance.

Could be a cool idea for it's own thread though.

Are you asking me and drizzlydaze to go over all of this again? No way man. 🙂

[MENTION=8356]HisMrs[/MENTION]

Please make sure to discuss the topic civilly, folks. This is your 1 warning; if it gets out of hand, we will have to close the thread.

Oh shoosh, everybody in this thread is perfectly civil.

---------- Post added at 07:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 AM ----------
[MENTION=12094]whitewolf[/MENTION]

I'm getting the feeling you don't like many of the characters aside from Buffy.

On the contrary, I quite love them. I even love season 2 Spike.

Calling them minions makes no sense whatsoever.

Really? Glory's minions are too easy but name one thing that differs Scoobies from Master's minions ( from the episode "When She Was Bad" ) and not something superficial like "They're good!â„¢" please. Just like Buffy's minions they even try to resurrect their master.

 

[SlayerFest]

Change the topic then. Thanks in advance.

You can...if you start a new thread. Haha and you wouldn't have to start the conversation all over again, you could just continue it there.

 

[Pike]

I am disappointed in Joyce's reaction as well. However, I am not that surprised. Most people like to think that their parent or themselves as a parent would acted differently. Joyce handled it wrong. She met a guy who she honestly thought wouldn't do something like that. She was indeed wrong. Joyce isn't perfect. I don't really think it was out of character either.

I think Buffy acted the way she would have on the golf course as well. Maybe on a different day or in a different situation she may have acted different. Or if he had come alone only a few years later she may have not taken any of it. However, I think she was in some sort of shock by this adult male figure. I think there would be a lot of teens who never would have spoken about it.

I must say, there is something odd about the episode. Maybe its just from an earlier season and it comes across a little cheesy. But looking back, it was those episodes that made me like the show. In addition to the cleverness of Season Two and thereafter.

Maybe if it wasn't John Ritter 🙂

 

[shadcat]

I really didn't like how nobody would believe Buffy, and the fact she didn't say what happened.

But I guess the fact nobody (Mostly Joyce) didn't believe Buffy was because of Ted's ~magical cookies~

 

[Wild At Heart]

I couldn't stand how nobody would believe her either. And I'm not really a huge fan of John Ritter. He was a cool guy but I didn't care for him in this ep. This ep really pissed me off at certain points but I guess that was the point of it lol. Not one of my favs but has some great funny moments & I love the scene with Buffy & Joyce at the end.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I have two distinct choices for the worst two episodes of Buffy:

1. Ted
2. Normal Again

John Ritter has always overplayed the parts he was in, but although you could say the same for William Shatner, somehow it doesn't work as well for John Ritter. These two episodes could be excised out of BtVS without anything being worse (except they are referenced elsewhere, so that would have to be cleaned up as well).

Both of these episodes appeared to be an attempt to show Buffy responding to every conceivable problem a teenager could experience. There is nothing entertaining about delaing with a psychopath like Ted.

 

[dexeded]

I have two distinct choices for the worst two episodes of Buffy:

1. Ted
2. Normal Again

John Ritter has always overplayed the parts he was in, but although you could say the same for William Shatner, somehow it doesn't work as well for John Ritter. These two episodes could be excised out of BtVS without anything being worse (except they are referenced elsewhere, so that would have to be cleaned up as well).

Both of these episodes appeared to be an attempt to show Buffy responding to every conceivable problem a teenager could experience. There is nothing entertaining about delaing with a psychopath like Ted.

Interesting choices which I totally disagree with, but YMMV.

On the subject of bad acting, I do want to leave these here, though...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAvRBDQqSmY"]Shatner at His Finest! - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L04dpkbU3IA"]Captain Kirk goes Berserk - Star Trek TOS Tantrum - YouTube[/ame]

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------
[MENTION=9799]Taake[/MENTION]

Short for Your Mileage May Vary. Hm, I was about to link you to the TV Tropes page, but it seems they've taken out that trope. In any case, it just means that people have differing opinions.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

(For Taake): YMMV = your mileage may vary, a standard disclaimer for automotive manufacturers quoting fuel mileage numbers. Used in the sense of "to each his own".

I recognize that quite a few people like "Ted" and "Normal Again", but I found both of them more cringeworthy than entertaining.

Perhaps it is my reaction to control freaks, whether domestic or institutional.

 

[GATEGOD]

I'm more upset with Joyce's reaction than Buffy's. If my daughter told me someone threatened to hit her I think I would trust my daughter over someone I just met. Seriously, Joyce really messed up here. Furthermore, I think Joyce handled the "death" bad. He attacked her, threatened, her, Buffy had every right to fight back.

You tell her!

Joyce got her come-up ins in The Body.

lol just kidding!