Did the writers know it was the last episode?

[Dazza]

I know they only found out about the shows axing during the final season, and am wondering did they write the final eps knowing they were wrapping the series up? It sure seemed that way.

 

[Lyri]

Yes.

The series was cancelled in February (the announcement was made on my birthday, the jackasses, lol) and I think Christian Kane said that they were filming 'Underneath' if my memory serves. They were in the basement where Lindsey kept getting his heart cut out over and over when the cast and crew were told, he said it was a very bleak moment for David and the other cast, to find out in that setting. So they still had four more episodes to shoot when they knew they weren't coming back for another season.

 

[Kean]

Yes.

The series was cancelled in February (the announcement was made on my birthday, the jackasses, lol) and I think Christian Kane said that they were filming 'Underneath' if my memory serves. They were in the basement where Lindsey kept getting his heart cut out over and over when the cast and crew were told, he said it was a very bleak moment for David and the other cast, to find out in that setting. So they still had four more episodes to shoot when they knew they weren't coming back for another season.

That is the most Jossian thing I have ever heard in my life.

 

[Lyri]

That is the most Jossian thing I have ever heard in my life.

Right?

Christian said that David just walked off without saying anything and he (Christian) had to run after him to make sure he was okay.

 

[Kean]

Right?

Christian said that David just walked off without saying anything and he (Christian) had to run after him to make sure he was okay.

I'd heard all the stories about everyone being so surprised by the decision, since the show had its best ratings at the time and was arguably, doing better than ever. I'd never heard how they found out, though. 🙁

 

[Xin Rong]

Why did it get cancelled?

 

[Lyri]

Why did it get cancelled?

I have no idea what the 'real' reason was, it was second only to Smallville for 18-34's but this is what I heard.

Joss went to the network sometime in February that year, telling them he 'needed' to know if the show was coming back for another season before he wrapped S5. The network said all decisions were made in May and he'd have to wait like everyone else. Joss kept bugging them, and then, finally, he said, 'look, am I coming back, I need to know right now, yes or no.' and the network execs said 'alright, then, no, you're not coming back'.

I can't remember where I heard that, though. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something Christian mentioned at a Con, 'cause that wouldn't really be something he would know or care about. So, yeah, take that as you will.

 

[Dazza]

Yes.

The series was cancelled in February (the announcement was made on my birthday, the jackasses, lol) and I think Christian Kane said that they were filming 'Underneath' if my memory serves. They were in the basement where Lindsey kept getting his heart cut out over and over when the cast and crew were told, he said it was a very bleak moment for David and the other cast, to find out in that setting. So they still had four more episodes to shoot when they knew they weren't coming back for another season.

Thanks. That makes sense. So the last 4 eps were probably hastily rewritten?

 

[VisionGirl]

I'd heard all the stories about everyone being so surprised by the decision, since the show had its best ratings at the time and was arguably, doing better than ever. I'd never heard how they found out, though. 🙁

And the announcement was made around the time Smile Time aired, which was a popular and innovative episode. 🙁

 

[Lyri]

Thanks. That makes sense. So the last 4 eps were probably hastily rewritten?

No. Joss decided to change very little. Gunn was supposed to die instead of Wesley, other than that, nothing really changed.

 

[Dazza]

No. Joss decided to change very little. Gunn was supposed to die instead of Wesley, other than that, nothing really changed.

The suicide mission was intended prior to finding out they were cancelled?

 

[Lyri]

The suicide mission was intended prior to finding out they were cancelled?

As far as anyone is aware, S5 ended exactly like Joss had been planning since before they knew about the cancellation - with the exception of Wesley dying instead of Gunn. Now what they would have meant if S6 had happened, no one can say. I'm not 100% sure if they would have been able to pull off AtF on TV. Like S8, it's a little bit too far fetched for me to be able to visualize it as a season of television. It works as a comic, but...nah.

 

[Blaze]

I've also heard that Joss had planned a type of AtF post-apocalypse setting for s6 of Angel and it would have been too expensive to produce which did weight in the decision of cancelling the show. But don't take my word for it, I heard that a few years ago from a source I can't recall so it might or might not be false.

 

[Lyri]

There was also something that I saw a few weeks ago that said that Seth Green had never been contacted to reprise his role as Oz for S6. I know that for a long, long time there was speculation that Oz was supposed to return if there had been a S6 as sort of a mentor to Nina, but now that the theory has been debunked, I wonder where it started in the first place?

I think it was on Whedonesque...I'm gonna check that out.

 

[Mischlings]

As far as anyone is aware, S5 ended exactly like Joss had been planning since before they knew about the cancellation - with the exception of Wesley dying instead of Gunn. Now what they would have meant if S6 had happened, no one can say. I'm not 100% sure if they would have been able to pull off AtF on TV. Like S8, it's a little bit too far fetched for me to be able to visualize it as a season of television. It works as a comic, but...nah.

I have no basis for this, but given how rushed the ending of Season 5 ended up being, it feels more like they would have intended that as the finale to season 6 with a lot more set up to the Circle of the Black Thorn - it was just so awkwardly rushed into the last few episodes that it doesn't feel like it was deliberately paced that way.

 

[Robb Stark]

I've heard similar stories about Joss pushing the network hard for a decision and them essentially getting pissed off and telling him to go away.

As for the rewriting part of the thread, I think that the overall arc probably remained largely intact, but certain elements seem like they were clearly designed to be explored further in a S6. Illyria, for one. And Nina seems like she would have been a larger part of the show had it been renewed for another season.

 

[Lyri]

I have no basis for this, but given how rushed the ending of Season 5 ended up being, it feels more like they would have intended that as the finale to season 6 with a lot more set up to the Circle of the Black Thorn - it was just so awkwardly rushed into the last few episodes that it doesn't feel like it was deliberately paced that way.

I'm just repeating what I've heard from various actors at conventions over the past ten years. They all seemed convinced that very little changed since before and after the cancellation. Whether Joss himself thinks differently, I don't know. I've never met him, lol.

 

[Mischlings]

I'm just repeating what I've heard from various actors at conventions over the past ten years. They all seemed convinced that very little changed since before and after the cancellation. Whether Joss himself thinks differently, I don't know. I've never met him, lol.

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that that doesn't seem like it would have been a good plan to go that way for the end of the season. If it was a lesser creator, I would believe it, but I don't think that Joss would have deliberately paced the season like that. If he says otherwise (or Jeffrey Bell or another major writer/producer) says otherwise, well then I just read into it wrong.

 

[Robb Stark]

I wasn't saying you were wrong, just that that doesn't seem like it would have been a good plan to go that way for the end of the season. If it was a lesser creator, I would believe it, but I don't think that Joss would have deliberately paced the season like that. If he says otherwise (or Jeffrey Bell or another major writer/producer) says otherwise, well then I just read into it wrong.

I know this won't be an overly popular opinion/question, but is it not entirely possible that Joss is a lesser creator, or at least, to a certain extent? If you look at a lot of the flops in S6 and the absolutely glaring continuity problems in S7, I don't think it's unfair to believe that he had problems with pacing.

 

[Mischlings]

I know this won't be an overly popular opinion/question, but is it not entirely possible that Joss is a lesser creator, or at least, to a certain extent? If you look at a lot of the flops in S6 and the absolutely glaring continuity problems in S7, I don't think it's unfair to believe that he had problems with pacing.

Given his lesser involvement with those seasons (he was still showrunner and ultimately the last word, but he wasn't as involved in the day to day work as he had been before), I can't place that blame entirely on him. I also don't see that pacing problem in anything else he was that deeply involved with, but it could just be that I'm not remembering something.