Did Warren Deserve to Die

[EffieT1]

I was inspired by another thread on whether willow's actions were evil or unstable and I know many people referred to her killling of Warren but did not dwell on it so this is the thread for that. I dont think this question is in any other thread so please correct me if Im wrong.
The tricky thing about a question like this is all the issues of warren was human, morality etcetera however if you were in willow's case would you have taken that final step. Its hard for me to feel sympathy for warren seeing as how after he saw pleading wasnt working he resorted to insulting will, even in his vulnerable tied up position.
I cant really think of any specific questions but id appreciate any thoughts on the issue and even some not so direct comments.
some random thoughts : Yes warren was human but hes just as bad as some demons the scoobies dealt with, you could even argue that him having a soul (which is such a big deal in the buffyverse) and still evil makes him worse. the counter argument of course being that it was not willow or even buffy's place to end his life. Also I may have been more on willows side if she didnt seem to be enjoying his torture so much, although at that point she was pretty far gone.

 

[kittenpoker]

The higher part of me feels its never my place to be judge, jury and executioner of anyone. The lower part of me (which occupies most of my being, sad to say) answers YES, he absolutely deserved to die.

 

[Robb Stark]

I felt no sympathy for Warren whatsoever, but I think that scene says a lot more about Willow than it does about Warren.

Warren put himself in that position, but that doesn't change the fact that it was murder, and not a justifiable killing. Willow murdered Warren because she was angry, that's it. Without his toys Warren is just a guy. He could have easily have been stopped and contained by the time Willow captures him.

She killed him because she wanted to, not because it was right. It wasn't.

 

[EVIL UU]

Every human stupid enough to attempt a slayer-cide deserves to die. It's like with those idiots who deliberately jump over fences in zoos and are torn apart by wild animals.
[MENTION=12370]EffieT1[/MENTION]

it was not willow or even buffy's place to end his life

Of course it was. Human law enforcement cannot stop or contain Warren because he uses magic. The state justice system created to curb private vengeance cannot possibly work in this situation and thus it's Willow's duty to end Warren's life. It's justice. It's not a coincidence that the statue of Proserpexa looks exactly like Erinyes, Greek goddesses of justice, defenders of moral and legal order.

 

[JCoatsworth]

I don't think anybody deserves to die. I only think Warren deserved justice. But what exactly is justice? Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? If so, yes, it was right. But I don't think that's what justice is. I think Warren deserved to be in jail for the rest of his life for what he did.

some random thoughts : Yes warren was human but hes just as bad as some demons the scoobies dealt with, you could even argue that him having a soul (which is such a big deal in the buffyverse) and still evil makes him worse.

Well, the way demons are portrayed changes over the course of the series. In the first season, it's basically demons = absolute evil, they must all be destroyed. But look at Clem in Season 6. He's kind and friendly, a guy I'd wanna hang out with. But if he killed someone, and the Scoobies didn't know him personally, I don't think they would hesitate killing him.
The real world is different from the Buffyverse. In real life, I don't think Warren should be killed. In the Buffyverse? I don't know.

Of course it was. Human law enforcement cannot stop or contain Warren because he uses magic. The state justice system created to curb private vengeance cannot possibly work in this situation and thus it's Willow's duty to end Warren's life.

Take all of Warren's toys and potions or whatever he uses away, and I could personally stop him. He's just some regular guy. Take his weapons away, put him in handcuffs, and he doesn't stand a chance.
Also, Willow doesn't have any duty nor any right whatsoever to end a human life just because she has special abilities.

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=10438]JCoatsworth[/MENTION]

Take all of Warren's toys and potions or whatever he uses away, and I could personally stop him. He's just some regular guy.

First someone would have to take those toys away from him. Could you do it? Besides, Warren uses magic to create his toys. Take them away, he'll just make some new ones. Prison will not contain him for very long. He'll come back and he'll murder again.

Also, Willow doesn't have any duty nor any right whatsoever to end a human life just because she has special abilities.

Justice must be served. Nobody else can do it.

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=10438]JCoatsworth[/MENTION]


First someone would have to take those toys away from him. Could you do it? Besides, Warren uses magic to create his toys. Take them away, he'll just make some new ones. Prison will not contain him for very long. He'll come back and he'll murder again.



Justice must be served. Nobody else can do it.

But...they were already taken away from him. Willow stripped everything away from him in about ten seconds. He was fleeing on a bus for god's sake. Hardly the plan of a magical mastermind.

And nobody else could do it? Really? Buffy was right on the scene. She could have taken him in easily if Willow hadn't exploded.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

In my eyes, Warren was possibly the only truly sinister character in the Buffyverse.

The Master was just being true to who he was, and looking to further the agenda of his people, or vampires as was the case.

Angelus was soulless.

The Mayor believed his actions would make the world a better place for humans and demons alike.

Adam was trying to further Earth's sentience by creating a better species out of humans, demons, and robotics.

Glory was just trying to go home.

The First was being what it was, the dark end of the spectrum.

Jasmine was trying to bring world peace.

Wolfram & Hart maintained the status quo for humans & demons, putting down threats from both sides who would overly upset the balance.

Obviously they were all "evil," but in their own minds, they were working for something better. Warren just did horrible things out of boredom and hatred.

 

[JCoatsworth]

First someone would have to take those toys away from him. Could you do it? Besides, Warren uses magic to create his toys. Take them away, he'll just make some new ones. Prison will not contain him for very long. He'll come back and he'll murder again.

Nonsense. He's totally inexperienced. He can't create something from nothing, like, for example, Willow. Behind bars, without any resources, he's totally helpless, like any other normal person. Buffy just would have had to take all that stuff away from him, take him to a police station and let them do the rest. Without a backup plan, he couldn't have done anything.
Of course I couldn't have taken his stuff away, but I never said I could.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think Warren was pure evil. He did everything he did purely because he was a twisted, sadistic asshole. Do I think he should have died? Absolutely. There was no way that the police would have ever been able to convict him of all his crimes because he used magic. And because he used magic, that means that it was Buffy's job to serve him that justice. However, Buffy would have never killed him because he was human. Does that mean that j think he deserved what Willow did to him? No. If Warren could have gotten what I think he deserved, he would have gone to prison, became someone's buttmonkey, and then died by lethal injection.

 

[Robb Stark]

I think Warren was pure evil. He did everything he did purely because he was a twisted, sadistic asshole. Do I think he should have died? Absolutely. There was no way that the police would have ever been able to convict him of all his crimes because he used magic. And because he used magic, that means that it was Buffy's job to serve him that justice. However, Buffy would have never killed him because he was human. Does that mean that j think he deserved what Willow did to him? No. If Warren could have gotten what I think he deserved, he would have gone to prison, became someone's buttmonkey, and then died by lethal injection.

But he shot Tara with a gun though (a gun which seemed to defy the laws of space and physics, from how Tara was shot, but a gun nonetheless...). It wouldn't exactly have been very difficult for a court to convict him.

 

[kittenpoker]

In my eyes, Warren was possibly the only truly sinister character in the Buffyverse.
.

I'd include Parker.



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[Ethan Reigns]

What would he be tried for? Attempted murder of Buffy, manslaughter for Tara and murder for Katrina. He would have made bail and the Warren-bot that was on the bus as a decoy would have gone to trial in his place while he would have quietly got on the bus to Mexico and disappeared. He would have killed off all the witnesses. This is in addition to the armoured car heist that set them up with enough money to do whatever they wanted. And the sexual slavery that he practised on Katrina. And the endangerment of Buffy with the invisibility ray that would have disintegrated her.

Yes, he deserved to die. And Willow was the only one who would stop him.

 

[Blaze]

Simple answer: yes.

Now there's the whole death shouldn't be taken on one owns hand, but to me any guy like Warren deserves to die and not only that, but in the most painful way. What Willow did was barbaric, but if Willow and Tara were my friends, I wouldn't have stopped Willow. Revenge is an awful thing, mostly because it could have ruined Willow's mind set and character (it almost did), but Warren deserved every bit of what he got.

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]

I felt no sympathy for Warren whatsoever, but I think that scene says a lot more about Willow than it does about Warren.

I don't agree with everything you said but I will agree with this. Obviously Warren deserved it, but it comes down to Willow's character, not Warren's. It's a shame they didn't expend more on the aftermath in s7.

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=12171]Ethan Reigns[/MENTION],

In the States and Canada at least, if you intend to commit first degree murder and kill someone else in the process, it's still first degree murder. No DA in America would ever approve manslaughter charges for Tara's death.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

This, like many other topics gets into a general genre issue of why the "no kill" policy. And more specific to the Buffyverse, when does someone stop being human enough to spare from execution?

One of the stronger examples would be Anya. She is strongly implied to have had a soul, yet as soon as she retook her vengeance mission, Buffy was quick to attempt to kill her. No one was too upset when the Scoobies contributed to the death Faith's rogue Watcher, also a human. Buffy executed Caleb who was not explicitly soulless, just empowered by the First's mojo.

And the list goes on... So just because Warren boosted his power via technology rather than magic, he's immune to being "slayed"?

 

[Zeppelin92]

Yes he deserved to die. I have no sympathy for Warren at all, he was a coward.

Willow shouldn't have had to be the one who killed him tho.

 

[Wild At Heart]

Yes, only Willow should've tortured him more 🙂

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Let's look at the shooting of Tara, take the angle from Warren to that upstairs bedroom window.
Then take the angle from the window to Tara. They were different angle's.
How could the bullet change angle of trojectory, it couldn't. The window couldn't, so what did?
Also, we know that the bullet went through Tara's body (blood splatter on Willow's top).
Where exactly was Willow standing in relation to Tara?
Why wasn't Willow hit by the bullet?
If Warren had a half way decent lawyer in court the DA would have had to take the lesser charge than murder.
Could it be proved beyond doubt that the bullet from Warren's gun killed Tara?
If not he may have been found not guilty of Tara's murder.
So he'd only have been charged with shooting Buffy and given that (in the eyes of the courts) Buffy walked about okay the next day, Warren would probably have been given a probation.

As for Warren's murder, a human.
He was killed by Willow, a human.
But his death wasn't a typical death. In the eyes of the courts something else was used to kill him.
Who would have supplied the lawyer for Warren? Jonathon or Andrew?
Who would have supplied the lawyer for Willow, the chances are Buffy would have told the watchers council to supply one.
In court dressed as a meek person, the judge may well have seen Willow as incapable of such a horrific crime.
And that is if there was a witness to place her at the scene of the crime.

 

[Blaze]

Let's look at the shooting of Tara, take the angle from Warren to that upstairs bedroom window.
Then take the angle from the window to Tara. They were different angle's.
How could the bullet change angle of trojectory, it couldn't. The window couldn't, so what did?
Also, we know that the bullet went through Tara's body (blood splatter on Willow's top).
Where exactly was Willow standing in relation to Tara?
Why wasn't Willow hit by the bullet?
If Warren had a half way decent lawyer in court the DA would have had to take the lesser charge than murder.
Could it be proved beyond doubt that the bullet from Warren's gun killed Tara?
If not he may have been found not guilty of Tara's murder.
So he'd only have been charged with shooting Buffy and given that (in the eyes of the courts) Buffy walked about okay the next day, Warren would probably have been given a probation.

Let's be honest here, the trajectory of the bullet is simply a plot hole, or more so were suppose to suspend our disbelief. It's pretty clear that in this circumstances, Warren would have been found guilty. Let's hypothetically say that Warren hadn't die and was brought in front of a judge, there's no way Joss and co would have used the trajectory of the bullet to set him free, because the trajectory of the bullet wasn't even suppose to be accounted for. It's a simple mistake they made for dramatic effect.