Did Willow Have Good Intentions?

[DeadFlagBlues]

Do you think Willow brought Buffy back because she really believed she was in a hell dimension and wanted to help? Or was Willow already showing signs of her obsession with dark magic and her arrogance?

I feel split about her intentions. The first time I watched the show, I did think she just wanted to help. But in my current rewatch, I feel that she withheld a lot of info from the gang about the consequences and she readily dismissed everyone's concerns. It seemed that she had some knowledge about Buffy coming back "wrong" and that she didn't bring it up to keep everyone on board with the plan. It's as though she wants to prove to herself that she is the powerful witch she wants to be despite the results. I don't doubt that she probably had a bad feeling about what she was doing in her heart of hearts. But like an addict, she felt compelled to do it.

What do you guys think?

 

[funsmiley]

Ya know, i have never been completely sure whether she wanted buffy back that badly or if it was to prove she was becoming a powerful witch so i just bring it down to a bit of both.

I generally think she missed buffy and honestly thought she was in a hell dimension but i do think it had more to do with magic then actually bringing buffy back. I don't think even she really knew at that point that it was mostly about the magic, i think she had convinced herself it was really to bring her best friend back and nothing more but as the season progresses we see that magic overtakes her and i sometimes wonder had she not done such a powerful spell to bring buffy back maybe her magic addiction wouldn't have been so bad later on.

 

[brinkster130]

I think it had more to do with her obsession with magic and wanting to prove she could bring her back more than anything. I don't doubt that she missed her friend and wanted her back but I back, but I don't think Willow ever seriously thought about the potential consequences of what she was doing.

If Willow truly believed she was doing the right thing she wouldn't have kept it a secret from certain people. She intentionally only told those she could manipulate and hide her selfish motivations from.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

If Willow truly believed she was doing the right thing she wouldn't have kept it a secret from certain people. She intentionally only told those she could manipulate and hide her selfish motivations from.

This is such a good point, and I hadn't really thought about it before. Willow kept her plans a secret from Giles and Spike-- a watcher who potentially has all sorts of information about where Buffy might be, (or access to it), and a vampire who undoubtedly knows a thing or two about the after life and in his many years in those circles has probably picked up a bit of information on the subject.

It goes without saying that she was deeply worried about Buffy and wanted to make sure she wasn't suffering. But if Willow's primary concern was truly to confirm that Buffy was in a hell dimension and to get her out of it, it makes no sense at all that she wouldn't at the very least have run some thoughts by Giles and Spike. I mean we don't even see her consult "the books."

 

[WileyDairyGnome]

I think a little bit of both.

I think Willow probably worried that Buffy was in a hell dimension, and she also of course missed her and wanted her back. But I think her addiction sort of overpowered her into actually doing something about it. I think Willow knew there were consequences, but she probably thought she could handle it because of her powerful obsession with the dark arts, and wanted to prove she could do it.

But also, I think everyone including Willow were a little naive to think that Buffy was in Hell. Just saying. 😛

 

[Jodast]

I agree with [MENTION=11396]WileyDairyGnome[/MENTION] for the most part. This is where I differ in opinion. I think they (the Scoobies) were afraid that Buffy had gone to a Hell dimension. Their other major experience of portal closing ended with Angel in one of the aforementioned dimensions of doom(tm). Glorificus' dimension was also described as a Hell dimension and Buffy sacrificed herself to close it. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that Buffy shared the same fate as Captain Forehead. So I think the intentions were good.

However, Willow showed both naivete and hubris in thinking that she could bring someone back from the dead with no ill effects. Pulling a spell of that magnitude would certainly only increase her reliance on magic and once she realised something was not quite right, encourage her to hide any information from the others.

 

[Vamp Jenny]

I believe she genuinely(sp??) thought she was saving Buffy but, unconsciously, she wanted to prove she was becoming a very powerful witch.

I don't think she did it only because she wanted to prove something. They had been using the Buffybot all summer long and it was becoming worse and demons started to realize it wasn't the real slayer. Plus, it was easier for them to believe Buffy was in Hell. And as her friends they felt (especially Willow, who was he best friend and had the power to do it) that they had to bring her back and save her from it.

Willow proved she was very powerful with that spell, but as I said I think she didn't consciously brought Buffy back for that purpose.

 

[white avenger]

Almost certainly, Willow's motives for bringing Buffy back were completely sincere. Just as certainly, I believe that Willow saw the actual resurrection spell as the ultimate test of her powers as a witch, maybe as some sort of equivalent of the final exam prior to graduation.

 

[dexeded]

I don't think it was wrong for them to think she'd gone to Hell; after all, Buffy had fallen through a portal to Glory's hell dimension. Willow did have good intentions, entirely good, I believe. What was wrong, however, was Willow totally disregarding the general no-no of using magic to mess with the natural order of things. Whether or not Buffy had been in Heaven or Hell, what Willow did still released The First.

 

[RipperGilesFan]

Ya know, i have never been completely sure whether she wanted buffy back that badly or if it was to prove she was becoming a powerful witch so i just bring it down to a bit of both.

I always wondered about this too. I often think bringing Buffy back was the beginning of Willow's powertrip which ultimately led to dissaster. Her not wanting Spike and Giles inon it, probably because she knew both of them were opposed to it and would try to stop her, was a sign of that to me. The way she reacted when Xander and Anya started having doubt as well.

I like to believe her intentions were good, and think to some extend they were, but that was not all there was to it.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Honestly? The first time I watched, I was sure that she really just wanted her friend back. But rewatching several times has made me realize that at this point in their lives, Buffy and Willow were already starting to grow apart. While they were still close, they each had other people in their life that were taking up a lot of time (Spike/Dawn for Buffy and Tara for Willow), and now I can't help but think it was more of Willow wanting to prove that she could do it rather than it was something that needed to be done.

If Buffy's friends truly loved her and thought she was a good person, why would they assume she was in a Hell dimension after she died? Even if you don't believe in God or anything spiritual, I would never just assume that someone I love was going to be tortured in some Hell dimension for all eternity after they died, and certainly not if they had done as much good in their life as Buffy had. For these reasons, I think Willow's reasons had more to do with her addiction to magic than her love for Buffy.

 

[dexeded]

If Buffy's friends truly loved her and thought she was a good person, why would they assume she was in a Hell dimension after she died? Even if you don't believe in God or anything spiritual, I would never just assume that someone I love was going to be tortured in some Hell dimension for all eternity after they died, and certainly not if they had done as much good in their life as Buffy had.

Buffy had fallen through a portal to Glory's hell dimension. It's quite logical to think that her soul might be in Hell while her body fell to the ground. I assume there was no way to mystically pinpoint where she actually was.

 

[brinkster130]

Buffy had fallen through a portal to Glory's hell dimension. It's quite logical to think that her soul might be in Hell while her body fell to the ground. I assume there was no way to mystically pinpoint where she actually was.

I know this was a response to HisMrs but I just wanted to throw my two cents in 😉

I totally agree that it makes sense that the Scoobies would initially assume Buffy's soul was stuck in a hell dimension, however what I don't buy is that Willow would have continued to genuinely believe that for a long period of time.

Willow was smart and by that point would have had pretty good resources to research and find a way to determine if Buffy's soul was in fact in hell, yet we never saw her doing any thing like that. I mean, Willow didn't think through the plan enough to dig up Buffy's body so she wouldn't have to crawl out of the ground. By this point the Scoobies have seen time and time again that things are not always as they seem so I don't know why they would have accepted Buffy's fate without question.

Also, if her intentions were 100% good, then why did she keep what she was doing from every person who would have questioned and/or opposed her doing the spell? Giles, Dawn, Spike and Angel all loved Buffy and would have done whatever they could have to helped insure that her soul was at peace, yet she didn't feel the need to tell them? IMO, that tells me, that on some level she knew what she was doing wasn't right.

 

[dexeded]

I know this was a response to HisMrs but I just wanted to throw my two cents in 😉

I totally agree that it makes sense that the Scoobies would initially assume Buffy's soul was stuck in a hell dimension, however what I don't buy is that Willow would have continued to genuinely believe that for a long period of time.

Willow was smart and by that point would have had pretty good resources to research and find a way to determine if Buffy's soul was in fact in hell, yet we never saw her doing any thing like that. I mean, Willow didn't think through the plan enough to dig up Buffy's body so she wouldn't have to crawl out of the ground. By this point the Scoobies have seen time and time again that things are not always as they seem so I don't know why they would have accepted Buffy's fate without question.

Also, if her intentions were 100% good, then why did she keep what she was doing from every person who would have questioned and/or opposed her doing the spell? Giles, Dawn, Spike and Angel all loved Buffy and would have done whatever they could have to helped insure that her soul was at peace, yet she didn't feel the need to tell them? IMO, that tells me, that on some level she knew what she was doing wasn't right.

I think she knew what she was doing wasn't right, but she still wasn't doing it to prove she was a good witch. She was blinded by her desire to get Buffy back. She knew that raising the dead, no matter if she was really in a Hell dimension, would be going against the laws of nature, and she knew that telling someone like Giles would mean an instant stop to their plan because he would, well, stop it. Telling Dawn ran the risk of telling Giles, and Spike--well, just look what he said in After Life. No reason to tell Angel, since he's not exactly part of the gang anymore. So yes, I agree she knew what she was doing wasn't right, but she did have good intentions, not, as many people say in the thread, to prove her prowess in magic.

 

[janas]

Buffy had fallen through a portal to Glory's hell dimension. It's quite logical to think that her soul might be in Hell while her body fell to the ground. I assume there was no way to mystically pinpoint where she actually was.

actually, there is a way to know where she was. The Axis of Pythia. Angel used it to look for Cordelia, and when he saw that she was in a kind of paradise, he stopped looking for her.

No reason to tell Angel, since he's not exactly part of the gang anymore

Willow went to Los Angeles to inform Angel of death Buffy's, despite it was no longer a member of the gang, so I would say that he could speak with him, saw also that Angel had a personal experience "back from a hell dimension" ..and if he did, Angel would try to find out where Buffy was, just as he did with Cordelia.

The point is that Willow has acted irresponsibly and many of its motives were determined by the need to gratify his ego (self). She was sorry that Buffy has not thanked her, I think his was a very egotistical attitude.

 

[dexeded]

actually, there is a way to know where she was. The Axis of Pythia. Angel used it to look for Cordelia, and when he saw that she was in a kind of paradise, he stopped looking for her.

Good point. I'd forgotten about it entirely. Still, it's very possible that Willow's research wouldn't have uncovered it, seeing as Angel only found out about it through Dinza.

Willow went to Los Angeles to inform Angel of death Buffy's, despite it was no longer a member of the gang, so I would say that he could speak with him, saw also that Angel had a personal experience "back from a hell dimension" ..and if he did, Angel would try to find out where Buffy was, just as he did with Cordelia.

But Angel was based in LA. It's one thing to inform him that Buffy died; it's another to involve him in plans to revive her. As I said, Willow knew what she was doing was wrong in that it would go against the laws of nature, and Angel, like Giles, might stop her. It may also be a case like Spike, protecting anything that came back, so long as some part of it was Buffy. Angel had his own things to deal with. He simply wasn't part of the Sunnydale gang anymore.

The point is that Willow has acted irresponsibly and many of its motives were determined by the need to gratify his ego (self). She was sorry that Buffy has not thanked her, I think his was a very egotistical attitude.

That's a matter of opinion, I suppose. I don't think that many of her motives were to gratify her ego at all; rather, a desperate (and on some level, selfish) need to bring her best friend back. As for thanking, I actually always took Tara's side on that matter.

 

[janas]

The problem is that the entire sixth season, is focused on these problems. Selfishness, self-isolation from friends, lack of communication, detachment from reality that appears dark and menacing as never before. All of them are concentrated in their microcosm and are closed in their personal hell. They can no longer see the "other" that is "outside of themselves" and this leads to the existential vacuum, and the loss of contact with the "divine." Selfishness Willow's is highlighted since the early episodes, but it is only the tip of the iceberg. None of them are immune by the overwhelming sense of emptiness.

The Axis of Pythia was just an example. I wanted to say that Willow has acted in a superficial way. If she had done some extensive research, also she would have discovered that he could speak with Dinza.