Question Did Xander Cover for Dawn?

[Lyri]

No, I don't think he was covering for Dawn, mainly because he refers to the spell later in the season, and it didn't look like Dawn recognized the amulet when she took it, because she was a total klepto.

Also, in 'Selfless' during S7, we see a flashback to Anya the night before OMWF, when the spell first kicked in. Xander's asleep on the chair when Anya starts sining, and he mumbles something about a spell, and singing and happy endings.

So, no, I don't think Dawn was responsible, I think it was Xander.

 

[Willow My Love]

The flashback was added later, IMO, to make it seem like he knew he was responsible.

I don't know if he was covering for her or not. She seemed to have legitimately no idea what Sweet was talking about.

 

[sosa lola]

He didn't cover for Dawn. That's canon. The spell started after Dawn stole the amulet.

As for Xander and Dawn's relationship, there's nothing disgusting about a man and a woman connecting and relating to each other and falling in love regardless of how old she was when he first met her. The woman is an adult and can make her own choices. She wasn't forced to kiss him.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think we has the same discussion in a new thread now. I'm not sure if we brought up the flash back scene there. It does imply that he was indeed the one who did the spell, specially since he says "happy ending" in both scenes.

"XANDER: Well, I didn't know what was gonna happen! I just thought there were gonna be dances and songs. (to Anya) I just wanted to make sure we'd... we'd work out. (nervous smile) Get a happy ending."
http://vrya.net/bdb/clip.php?clip=3410
/OMWF

"XANDER: (talking in his sleep) I just want... happy... ending..."
http://vrya.net/bdb/clip.php?clip=3857
/Selfless

Makes me even more mad a Xander. He knew why people danced to death. I wonder if the actor knew, because from what I recall, Brendan didn't seem to play guilty at all.

---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

He didn't cover for Dawn. That's canon. The spell started after Dawn stole the amulet.

(It happened in the ep before, didn't it? I can't recall)

Why would it matter when Dawn stole the amulet? How would that prove Xander didn't cover for her? I don't see how those two statements connect.

 

[The Unspoken]

Do people really think Xander would stand idly by while he had information that could prevent people from burning to death? Why would he spend the last 6 years helping Buffy fight demons and patrol at night if he didn't care? And what would be the point of the Trio and Dark Willow if Xander is already a sociopath who gets off on people burning to death?

Joss screwed his character over for the sake of a cheap joke. The fact that the writers added that flashback scene in 'Selfless' makes them look even more moronic. Did they have an issue with the actor or something?

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I don't think many people will disagree with you and say Xander's cruel, they'll say that Xander doing something like that is very OOC, but it seems to be canon (or at least what the writers wants us to think). That's what I'm saying anyway. It's sad, but it seems to be true.

Maybe he's just as dumb as he sometimes jokes he is and could actually fool himself to believe his spell didn't cause the damages.

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

I need to re-watch this scene:

XANDER: As in burnt up? Somebody set people on fire? That's nuts!

ANYA: I don't know. One more verse of our little ditty and I would've been looking for a gas can.

GILES: Well, clearly emotions are running high. But as far as I can tell these people burnt up from the inside, spontaneously combusted. I've only seen the one. I was able to examine the body while the police were taking witness arias.

XANDER: Okay, but we're sure that the things are related: the singing and dancing, and burning and dying.

GILES: We're not sure of much. Buffy's looking for leads at the local demon haunts, at least ... in theory she is, but ... she doesn't seem to-

XANDER: She's easing back into it. We pulled her out of an untold hell dimension. Ergo the weirdness. The important thing is to be there for her.

GILES: (shakes head) I'm helping her as much as I can, but, uh...

Xander didn't seem appaled or alarmed at all did he? Just the idea that he was the cause of this should have made him tell them immediatly and end the spell, just in case.

Weird that I can't even recall him denying it. It would make more sense if he tried to make it sound like the dancing and dying was unrelated, as if he was kidding himself.

I'll just blame bad writing/directing/acting and ignore this scene. Erase it from Xander's history. It shouldn't getn to taint the character.

 

[The Unspoken]

Lol, I might've been too harsh in my reaction. You're right about it being canon, it can't really be dismissed.

I just realized Joss wrote Anya's song in 'Selfless', and Xander mumbling about happy endings takes place in that same scene. Joss wrote OMWF too, so at least he's being consistent in his depiction of Xander as a sociopath. 😛

 

[sosa lola]

Why would it matter when Dawn stole the amulet? How would that prove Xander didn't cover for her? I don't see how those two statements connect.

It proves that Dawn first saw the amulet in Once More With Feeling after the spell started. So, it can't be Dawn.

The writers screwed up big time here. Joss didn't care about continuaty. He chose Xander to summon Sweet just for the "Does that mean I'm your queen?" joke. Xander was nothing but a plot device. Just like Spike being the Doctor in As We Were. I believe it's useless to dwell on it.

 

[A Flawed Fashion]

I don't think he was covering but

Spoiler

Xander dating an 18 year old Dawn

puts everything between them in the previous seasons in a different light.

It doesn't change anything about the past for me. We all know Xander cared about young Dawn like a sister and respected her while Dawn had a teenager's crush on him, so the relationship was already there, but he had no romantic feelings for her at the time. Nothing is put in a different light for me because Xander and Dawn's romantic relationship is one that 100% came to being after she was an adult and after the show ended. He thought of her like a kid sister on the show and there is nothing to be put in a different light given the fact that Tara is the only person to show Dawn more respect than Xander.

As for the question at hand, no I do not think that he was covering for Dawn. Its not his greatest decision in life, but he did it.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

It proves that Dawn first saw the amulet in Once More With Feeling after the spell started. So, it can't be Dawn.

In that case I assume you meant "He didn't cover for Dawn. That's canon. The spell started before Dawn stole the amulet." You said "after" and I was confused.

The writers screwed up big time here. Joss didn't care about continuaty. He chose Xander to summon Sweet just for the "Does that mean I'm your queen?" joke. Xander was nothing but a plot device. Just like Spike being the Doctor in As We Were. I believe it's useless to dwell on it.

Do people think the doc-bit was OOC for Spike? I thought it was a bit weird at first, but I wouldn't be suprised at all if Spike finally got the patience to run a scheme to get money (maybe to give to Buffy. Is it ever mentioned what he want the money for, other than the obvious; bloog, smokes etc etc)

 

[Angelic Slayer]

About Xander not feeling guilty, the writers probably just didn't devote much time to it because it wasn't important to everything else that was happening. They did add a reference but they couldn't show it weighing on his mind. He could also have been covering for Dawn, but that's what I think if we're taking things straightforward.

I totally agree with you on this one. I always thought that Xander admitting to calling the demon was just an easy-out for the writers at the time, as the focus of the episode was elsewhere. I think that it's a cute theory that he was covering for Dawn (it certainly makes more sense to me than the original explanation... and it would be a really cute tidbit for the writers to bring up in Season 9 or something 😀😉) but I don't necessarily think that's what they had in mind when OMWF aired.

 

[sosa lola]

In that case I assume you meant "He didn't cover for Dawn. That's canon. The spell started before Dawn stole the amulet." You said "after" and I was confused.

Oops. Sorry about that.

Do people think the doc-bit was OOC for Spike? I thought it was a bit weird at first, but I wouldn't be suprised at all if Spike finally got the patience to run a scheme to get money (maybe to give to Buffy. Is it ever mentioned what he want the money for, other than the obvious; bloog, smokes etc etc)

It's not about it being OOC, Xander summoning Sweet isn't OOC either, it's the way both were handled. There was no follow up or consequences. No one said anything to Xander about what he did and he never expressed guilt over the deaths, because that storyline didn't matter. Xander was just chosen to do that because no one would suspect him and the thought of Xander being Sweet's Queen is funny.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Aha, that way.

Now that you mention it, it was weird that Spike didn't get a stern warning/beating or something aterwards, so show that that kind of dangerous BS wasn't tolerated. Or enough to have him killed. They didn't kill him before, because they fooled themselves to believe he was harmless, but in As You Were, they were showed they'd been wrong (I assume Buffy told the others).

But maybe Buffy thought that ending things with Spike was punishment enough? I mean, it wasn't, but I can fanwank it.

 

[Tillow4ever]

I think maybe it was just Xander being a doof and not thinking of the consequences (Like what dan-k said about the spell), but I guess it could also be him covering for her... I never actually though about it. But I guess he could have. Because he didn't really seem to be liking it... and well, I think, as he did in "Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered", he would have said something if he knew people were dying... you know?

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I think maybe it was just Xander being a doof and not thinking of the consequences (Like what dan-k said about the spell), but I guess it could also be him covering for her... I never actually though about it. But I guess he could have. Because he didn't really seem to be liking it... and well, I think, as he did in "Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered", he would have said something if he knew people were dying... you know?

Very true. The real Xander would have said something as soon as he figured out that there might be a connection. Sure, he might have done the spell - not thinking of how bad spells can go - but as soon as people died he should have told about the spell.

That's the real Xander. But in that ep the writers screwed him over and made him into the guy who's dumb enough to do a spell and who's selfsih enough to keep silent.

I'll just fanwank it and say that he had bumped into a souleater the day before, and it took a piece of his soul, and it took a while before his soul "grew back" completely.

That's the only reasonable explanation I got.

I just thought of something. He knew people died because of him and di nothing, but he couldn't stand Dawn going to hell, so he confessed (or maybe he figured the truth would get out anyway?). Maybe he loved Dawn already (in the non-pedo way)?

 

[Icarium]

It's quite simple really - Joss only cared about the "surprise" twist in the end, that's why Xander couldn't really tell anyone he was guilty before the final few minutes. It's similar to say Enemies where excluding Willow and Xander from the plan to fool Faith and Buffy complaining to Willow about Angel finding Faith hot makes no sense, except as a way of deceiving the viewers or No Place Like Home where Buffy inexplicably leaves Dawn at home while thinking she is some evil beast and Dawn acts all creepy around Joyce for the first and last time. This is what happens when plot needs override character motivation. In other words it's bad writing.

Now that you mention it, it was weird that Spike didn't get a stern warning/beating or something aterwards, so show that that kind of dangerous BS wasn't tolerated.

This is hardly the first time Spike got a pass. It happened after he sold the Scoobies to Adam, after he kidnapped that surgeon and this almost killed Riley, after he kidnapped Buffy in Crush, etc.

 

[Tillow4ever]

Very true. The real Xander would have said something as soon as he figured out that there might be a connection. Sure, he might have done the spell - not thinking of how bad spells can go - but as soon as people died he should have told about the spell.

That's the real Xander. But in that ep the writers screwed him over and made him into the guy who's dumb enough to do a spell and who's selfsih enough to keep silent.

I'll just fanwank it and say that he had bumped into a souleater the day before, and it took a piece of his soul, and it took a while before his soul "grew back" completely.

That's the only reasonable explanation I got.

I just thought of something. He knew people died because of him and di nothing, but he couldn't stand Dawn going to hell, so he confessed (or maybe he figured the truth would get out anyway?). Maybe he loved Dawn already (in the non-pedo way)?

Exactly! I hate when writers do that to characters. It just makes me so sad. Because even thought Xander can be a little be doofy, he's still a good guy and won't want people to die.... stupid writers... and for the record, he's not a effing pedo! It's only 6 years and shes 18, not that I like Dander, I am a totally Xanya fan, but I hate when people call people pedos when they aren't.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Exactly! I hate when writers do that to characters. It just makes me so sad. Because even thought Xander can be a little be doofy, he's still a good guy and won't want people to die.... stupid writers... and for the record, he's not a effing pedo! It's only 6 years and shes 18, not that I like Dander, I am a totally Xanya fan, but I hate when people call people pedos when they aren't.

You misunderstood what I wrote. In Once More With Feeling, she's 15, so in case he had loved her "that" way back then, he would have been a pedo. (I say that even thought the age of consent in Sweden is at 15. Istill think it's creepy, at 15.)

But that wasn't my point. My point was that he could have loved her back then.

 

[Tillow4ever]

You misunderstood what I wrote. In Once More With Feeling, she's 15, so in case he had loved her "that" way back then, he would have been a pedo. (I say that even thought the age of consent in Sweden is at 15. Istill think it's creepy, at 15.)

But that wasn't my point. My point was that he could have loved her back then.

LOL! Oooooohhhh! Okay, sorry, I get all crazed about that. 😛 and yeah, I totally get what you mean. Excuse my something-ness.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

That's cool. But I have to admit, even though I knew it was unreasonable, I thought "Ewww, pedo" when I first read the comic with the Dawn&Xander kiss. I just keep imagining Harriet the Spy (a character the actress played when she was 10-ish) and I was creeped out. 😀

But even though I keep getting flashes of a ten year old Dawn I think their relationship is very cute. And healthy.