Question Did Xander Cover for Dawn?

[Skytteflickan88]

HisMrs disagrees: Sorry if you're insulted, but that is how I feel. You gusy are drawing conclusions on LOOSE facts.

You think I'm looking for reasons to hate Xander? Now that's a loose interpretation (I had to throw that in your face, sorry hun).

But seriously, it's not very nice to call people hateful (which I'm not) because they see things, and focus on things you don't.

It's like a blind man saying to a seeing man it's his own fault he couldn't not see a corpse lying in front of him(maybe not the best metaphor). People see different things, because they have different perspectives. Doesn't mean we're looking for them.

---------- Post added 02-16-2011 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-15-2011 at 11:58 PM ----------

Skytteflickan88 agrees: So you still disagree on that Xander "thought for one moment that it was his spell that had caused people to die" even thought the dialouge proves it? That doesn't seem like a loose interpretation.

YES I do. I've said it what feels like a million times now. According to that transcript, he thought it for a second, as would probably be a natural reaction. But since neither Giles or Buffy had yet said they thought it could be the same spell that was causing everyone to sing and dance that was killing those people, he probably didn't feel like he should bring it up. At that point, they thought it was all fun and games. They didn't know the two were related yet. [/quote]

YES I do. I've said it what feels like a million times now. According to that transcript, he thought it for a second, as would probably be a natural reaction. But since neither Giles or Buffy had yet said they thought it could be the same spell that was causing everyone to sing and dance that was killing those people, he probably didn't feel like he should bring it up. At that point, they thought it was all fun and games. They didn't know the two were related yet.

You don't think it's hair splitting to say there's a difference between "one moment" and "one second"? They're the same thing. Both he and Giles said it could be the same spell. The moment Xander says it's a possibility, both Giles and Xander considered it. I assume thay shared that idea with Buffy, but I'm not sure.

XANDER: Okay, but we're sure that the things are related: the singing and dancing, and burning and dying.

GILES: We're not sure of much. Buffy's looking for leads at the local demon haunts, at least ... in theory she is, but ... she doesn't seem to-

They both considered it. They didn't KNOW, but they considered it. That's fact to me. How can that be loose interpretations?

I'm really suprised that we can have so different views on the same sentences. They're pretty straight forward in my mind.

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

To lighten the mood http://buffyfest.blogspot.com/2011/...feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Buffyfest+(Buffyfest)

Now even I think that's funny. Mainly because I think it's a weird answer, San Franscisco I would get, but Massachussets? It's it something I'm missing?

 

[Icarium]

Okay, let's say Xander was convinced something else was burning people to death. Why not mention using the magical amulet? If he was so sure it was harmless why keep it a secret? He doesn't need to be certain his actions led to the deaths but even the small possibility of this being the case should have been enough to make him stop hiding that particular secret. It's not as if it's all that embarrassing or that he and all of his friends hadn't screwed up in a very similar fashion without anyone hating them for it. The only reason he didn't say anything is because the final twist hinged on that. This explains why he didn't feel any guilt either - because Joss wasn't interested in exploring character motivation he only wanted the "gotcha!" effect.

 

[BuffyElevated]

You think I'm looking for reasons to hate Xander? Now that's a loose interpretation (I had to throw that in your face, sorry hun).

Despite what you or I believe, we both disagree vehemently on this issue and I think we should just move on. Because if there's any more talk of throwing anything in anyone's faces, that come across as a direct remark meant to instigate or goad, and could actually be considered abuse/harassment and worthy of an infraction. Just sayin'.

Now, moving back on topic. Again, no I do not think that Xander covered for Dawn. I think Dawn was innocent of everything but shoplifting the necklace in this episode. And then lying by saying she "found it on the floor" while she was cleaning.

 

[Taake]

Now, moving back on topic. Again, no I do not think that Xander covered for Dawn. I think Dawn was innocent of everything but shoplifting the necklace in this episode. And then lying by saying she "found it on the floor" while she was cleaning.

Agreed, it never really occured to me that Xander might be covering for her.
Besides if he had been, to me, I only think it would've made sense if Joss would have followed up on it somehow. I don't think he would have just let a potential plotline like that lie untouched for the rest of the season.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Agreed, it never really occured to me that Xander might be covering for her.
Besides if he had been, to me, I only think it would've made sense if Joss would have followed up on it somehow. I don't think he would have just let a potential plotline like that lie untouched for the rest of the season.

Very true... And that could have been built upon or at least mentioned later on in Season 6 or maybe Season 7.

 

[xfivebyfive]

Agreed, it never really occured to me that Xander might be covering for her.
Besides if he had been, to me, I only think it would've made sense if Joss would have followed up on it somehow. I don't think he would have just let a potential plotline like that lie untouched for the rest of the season.

Very true. Why would he just leave the plotline unresolved....but then again he did do that with those dang eggs in Teachers pet O_O and I still obsess over them every time I see that episode lmao

But I still don't think Xander covered for Dawn because they never even said he did so why would he have Xander cover for her and then not even tell the audience that's what Xander was doing?

 

[sosa lola]

OMG people actually get mad at Xander for this? I never knew people actually got mad at him for this?! The episode is just supposed to be fun. Xander didn't know people were dying because of it, he wasn't being malicious come on? He's Xander.

I'm sorry but I still can't actually get over the fact that people really blame Xander for actions done in Once More With Feeling. The episode is a musical it's just supposed to be fun. I don't overthink this episode lol.

This is the problem. Xander summoning Sweet was played for laughs. But when you think about it, Xander caused a few people to die. I don't blame fans for being mad at him. I think Joss didn't think it through, he thought that fans will have the same reaction as yours, but thinking about it, Xander knew people died because of the spell. And he said nothing. That's awful.

Once More With Feeling is a great episode, but it's not perfect because of how Xander was written. And he was just a plot device, so his actions shouldn't be taken seriously. I think Joss wouldn't have screwed up if the people didn't burn while dancing. If no one died, then things would have been fine and fans wouldn't have been upset with Xander.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I think the main reason people are outraged over this is because we never got to see Xander be punished for what he did. It was played for laughs, and while it was a funny episode, we definitely should have been him feel worse than he did. But I am still not down for calling him a murderer or anything like that, you know?

 

[sosa lola]

I think the main reason people are outraged over this is because we never got to see Xander be punished for what he did. It was played for laughs, and while it was a funny episode, we definitely should have been him feel worse than he did. But I am still not down for calling him a murderer or anything like that, you know?

I won't call him a murderer either. He may have summoned a murderer by mistake, but he only did it for good intentions. He wanted to know if he and Anya would work out with songs and dances, he didn't know he was summoning a killer.

But I agree. If Xander showed dismay or Giles yelled at him or Sweet actually took him to Hell. Fans wouldn't have been angry with him.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

But I agree. If Xander showed dismay or Giles yelled at him or Sweet actually took him to Hell. Fans wouldn't have been angry with him.

I would have, since he had taken so long to confess.

It's also how the actor played it. Not a hint of "Oh no, could I have cause it" even though I firmly believe he considered it when he, Anya & Giles were talking.

If the actor had shown discomfort throughout the ep after that scene, I could have fanwanked into that Xander was a coward AND didn't think there was a way to undo the spell. In that case, he's not the bad guy, just the dumb guy.

 

[sosa lola]

I would have, since he had taken so long to confess.

It's also how the actor played it. Not a hint of "Oh no, could I have cause it" even though I firmly believe he considered it when he, Anya & Giles were talking.

If the actor had shown discomfort throughout the ep after that scene, I could have fanwanked into that Xander was a coward AND didn't think there was a way to undo the spell. In that case, he's not the bad guy, just the dumb guy.

I think Joss didn't tell the cast who summoned Sweet, like he didn't tell JM that Spike was going to get a soul. JM played Spike like he was going to get his chip out and NB played Xander like an innoncent.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Probably it. Very frustrating.

You can see Spike's hatred and it's just confusing in the context. Add the "Why didn't I do it?"-line and you get a weird discontinuity thing going on.

 

[sosa lola]

Joss SHOULD tell his actors about the plot twists. It doesn't matter if the fans got the plot twist before it happened, telling a good story is more important than that.

 

[Icarium]

Joss SHOULD tell his actors about the plot twists. It doesn't matter if the fans got the plot twist before it happened, telling a good story is more important than that.

I suspect that for Joss the "gotcha!" moments are more important than the quality of the story. The entire plot of Dollhouse hinged on a plot twist that wasn't even known by the writers themselves before they started writing S2. So basically they made up things as they went along, all for the sake of a twist that didn't make any sense whatsoever and had no foreshadowing whatsoever. Does that remind you of the OMWF twist or yes? 🙂 Or the "is Giles the First?" nonsense in S7? The Guardian woman? Or "who is Twilight?" in S8? Spike and the demon trials?