Discussion of 2.17 "Passion" - Aired 2/24/1998 (WB-US)

Yes! I am on season six as I am watching it on my mums box-set but after watching the season six final episode, I turned over to E4 and watched passion 😂! I love this episode, it really brings out the evil in Angelus and Jennys death always makes me cry! The first time I watched it, there was much: Oh No OH NOOOOOO Oh god! However, now I rewatch it, I see the change between sweet Angel and Angelus, and how Boreanaz played the switch so well. You can see that our sweet Angel was less confident and seemed more shy, but as Angelus he was bold and confident (we see this especially when he talks down to Spike, calling him ‘roller-boy’ and ‘sit and spin’. Anyway, I have waffled on a bit here but that is what I think!
 
I can honestly say one of the few episodes I hated Angel, actually Angelus. Toying with Buffy, killing Jenny, how badly he destroyed Giles, the way he set it up to think Jenny made this romantic scene and rendezvous for Giles and her. Destroyed me too. Killing Willow's fish.Those drawings whew. One of my favorite episodes.
 
Man, this episode kills me.

Jenny finally gets her act together, comes up with this great plan to gain back the trust of the Scoobs, and she is cruelly murdered right before she can enact it.

As someone who lIked Jenny a lot, it is straight-up depressing that she got completely destroyed with no chance for redemption.
 
Angelkiss said:
I can honestly say one of the few episodes I hated Angel, actually Angelus. Toying with Buffy, killing Jenny, how badly he destroyed Giles, the way he set it up to think Jenny made this romantic scene and rendezvous for Giles and her. Destroyed me too. Killing Willow's fish.Those drawings whew. One of my favorite episodes.
Click to expand...
This is the episode that really shows Angel M.O., and also probably why he's never killed a slayer before. He likes to play with his food. He gets enjoyment from the demoralization. This can mean that the opposition is at a low point when he does make his final strike, OTOH it also means giving the opposition time to counter.
 
I love the atmospheric-ness of this episode, with the voiceovers, the shots involving windows (into the soul(less)?), the overall moodiness.

I never cared too much about Jenny as a character, beyond being a love interest for Giles. Yet her death is hugely impactful. Angelus snapping her neck rather than biting her adds to the shock, so quick and in a weird way so dismissive of her humanity, like she's not even worth using for blood.

One complaint is, how did it occur to none of them that it was a huge problem that Angelus had access to them? Jenny asks how he got in, as if they've all forgotten vampires didn't need an invitation to the school. Have they forgotten Parents Night? And when Buffy expresses concern about him getting into her room, Giles tells her not to worry, which seems incredible.

I wonder who Angelus would have had to hang out with if they had killed Spike off as planned? Would Dru have hung around? It seems necessary for him to have someone to talk to.

Joyce's reaction to the news that Buffy has had sex is an interesting contrast to Giles's response. I think it shows how much Joyce is walled off from Buffy's life, and how much she lacks trust in Buffy. It's another moment pointing to the end-of-season fallout.
 
Stake fodder said:
I wonder who Angelus would have had to hang out with if they had killed Spike off as planned? Would Dru have hung around? It seems necessary for him to have someone to talk to.
Click to expand...

I think Dru would have stuck around; Angelus was her sire and she did have a connection to him even with Spike around. However, I also think there would be a chance of her doing - for anyone else I would say irrational but Dru is hardly the poster child for rationality at the best of times! - because of Spike's death that could have got her dusted.
 
I know I said it before, but will say it again anyway, I am enjoying reading your reviews and observations on each episode!

Stake fodder said:
I love the atmospheric-ness of this episode, with the voiceovers, the shots involving windows (into the soul(less)?), the overall moodiness.

I never cared too much about Jenny as a character, beyond being a love interest for Giles. Yet her death is hugely impactful. Angelus snapping her neck rather than biting her adds to the shock, so quick and in a weird way so dismissive of her humanity, like she's not even worth using for blood.
Click to expand...
Alone at night - I wonder if perhaps she didn't have access to a computer at her home, and that's why she was at the school to work on translating the spell?

Stake fodder said:
One complaint is, how did it occur to none of them that it was a huge problem that Angelus had access to them? Jenny asks how he got in, as if they've all forgotten vampires didn't need an invitation to the school. Have they forgotten Parents Night? And when Buffy expresses concern about him getting into her room, Giles tells her not to worry, which seems incredible.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I found that very odd of Giles to brush that aside.

Stake fodder said:
I wonder who Angelus would have had to hang out with if they had killed Spike off as planned? Would Dru have hung around? It seems necessary for him to have someone to talk to.

Joyce's reaction to the news that Buffy has had sex is an interesting contrast to Giles's response. I think it shows how much Joyce is walled off from Buffy's life, and how much she lacks trust in Buffy. It's another moment pointing to the end-of-season fallout.
Click to expand...
I think Joyce's reaction seemed somewhat normal from a parent: "You had sex with a boy you didn't even see fit to tell me you were dating" - to me that implies Buffy may have mentioned in the past to her mother that she might be involved with someone, or had discussed a little of her dating history.

And consider the way Joyce is receiving this info. She's essentially accosted on her doorstep, and in 30 seconds suddenly learns her daughter is dating an older man (luckily she doesn't know his actual age! 😮) and they're sexually active. It gets creepier by the second, their whole exchange.

Buffy's obviously in a difficult position with her identity and role as the Slayer. Not exactly something you can easily share with a parent, and given her previous history (i.e burning down a school) it's behaviour that Joyce can't understand, and given Buffy's lack of sharing, it leads to conflict.

But, Joyce does want Buffy to open up to her:
Buffy: I can't tell you everything...
Joyce: How about anything?
 
hoponlilmama said:
I know I said it before, but will say it again anyway, I am enjoying reading your reviews and observations on each episode!
Click to expand...
Thank you! I'm glad they're generating a little discussion of this excellent season!
hoponlilmama said:
Alone at night - I wonder if perhaps she didn't have access to a computer at her home, and that's why she was at the school to work on translating the spell?
Click to expand...
That's very possible; many didn't have home computers then, though it seems more likely that a computer teacher would. Still, maybe she was working at the school and got too engrossed to notice that night was falling? The way she had on only one lamp, instead of the classroom lights, might indicate that.

I don't blame Joyce for her reaction to Buffy's news, especially the way Angelus dropped it on her, no doubt to enjoy her shock. I just think it's interesting to contrast it with Giles's reaction. I think it also shows how Giles sees Buffy as an adult, moreso than she really is sometimes and expecting a lot of her, while Joyce, of course, sees her still as her little girl.
Post automatically merged:

NotASlayer said:
I think Dru would have stuck around; Angelus was her sire and she did have a connection to him even with Spike around. However, I also think there would be a chance of her doing - for anyone else I would say irrational but Dru is hardly the poster child for rationality at the best of times! - because of Spike's death that could have got her dusted.
Click to expand...
This raises a question: was Dru also meant to be dusted when Spike was originally?
 
Stake fodder said:
This raises a question: was Dru also meant to be dusted when Spike was originally?
Click to expand...

Good question; I can't remember if anything was said about Dru's possible end. I could see her originally being killed by Buffy, perhaps during the rescue of Giles, perhaps before Buffy faced Angelus in the final battle.
 
Stake fodder said:
Thank you! I'm glad they're generating a little discussion of this excellent season!
Click to expand...
S2 is fantastic!

Stake fodder said:
That's very possible; many didn't have home computers then, though it seems more likely that a computer teacher would. Still, maybe she was working at the school and got too engrossed to notice that night was falling? The way she had on only one lamp, instead of the classroom lights, might indicate that.
Click to expand...
That's one explanation for why she was still there, but given her history and knowledge of vamps...actually come to think of it, I went back to the exchange after reading your reply. It seems Jenny perhaps thought he couldn't get into the school?

Jenny: Angel... How did you get in here?
Angelus: I was invited. The sign in front of the school... 'Formatia
trans sicere educatorum.'
Jenny: 'Enter all ye who seek knowledge.'

Stake fodder said:
I don't blame Joyce for her reaction to Buffy's news, especially the way Angelus dropped it on her, no doubt to enjoy her shock. I just think it's interesting to contrast it with Giles's reaction. I think it also shows how Giles sees Buffy as an adult, moreso than she really is sometimes and expecting a lot of her, while Joyce, of course, sees her still as her little girl.
Click to expand...
Great point. Given that Giles knows she's had to grow up faster than most teens.
 
hoponlilmama said:
It seems Jenny perhaps thought he couldn't get into the school?

Jenny: Angel... How did you get in here?
Angelus: I was invited. The sign in front of the school... 'Formatia
trans sicere educatorum.'
Jenny: 'Enter all ye who seek knowledge.'
Click to expand...
Right, but she should have known vampires could get in because she was working at the school during the events of "School Hard," when the school was invaded by vampires. Also, Darla left her victim in a locker in the first episode, but maybe Jenny wasn't aware of that. Really, it's just a mistake on the part if the writers.
 
My headcanon is that "Sunnydale Syndrome" is just the psychic powers that Vampires have over humans, amplified by the powers emanating from the Hellmouth. Like , Vampires can't gather in densities like this elsewhere, their "stench" would be detected. But here, they can mask it, and more , it's like covering the world in a psychic fog or long grass. Giles is trained to be aware of them, Buffy is immune to them, natives know the rules for living in Sunnydale, and cope well enough. Angelus was probably thinking about killing Jenny all day, so was Dru, that affected J.C.'s sense of awareness.

It's also entirely possible the "Techno-Pagan" had some weaker wards placed on the building, like hanging garlic, or erecting a fetish et al. Like those anti-witch jars you find in old houses. What Giles and Willow were doing was basically a Christian Household blessing, there's no reason to think that Jenny wouldn't have her own stuff, but was of lesser potency, or had a different effect. Just as likely, she has a charm that his her from the Demons, not unlike what Lindsay had in season 5 of A. Or, revoking an perpetual invitation was beyond her skill as adept, especially one she not know about.
 
The sign does make you wonder; if it had been taken down, would the invitation have been revoked?

Although supernatural beings being able to enter places that are not private property is rather common in myth and fiction. So that they could enter an apartment building, but not an apartment inside it.
 
Stake fodder said:
Right, but she should have known vampires could get in because she was working at the school during the events of "School Hard," when the school was invaded by vampires. Also, Darla left her victim in a locker in the first episode, but maybe Jenny wasn't aware of that. Really, it's just a mistake on the part if the writers.
Click to expand...
Yes, true!
The more you try to rationalise or explain it, the more you just realise it is a mistake from the writers. These are the same people who gave Buffy two separate birthdays. 😂


NotASlayer said:
The sign does make you wonder; if it had been taken down, would the invitation have been revoked?

Although supernatural beings being able to enter places that are not private property is rather common in myth and fiction. So that they could enter an apartment building, but not an apartment inside it.
Click to expand...

A good question.
 
We all recall when Harmony came to Buffy's house to harass Xander and he was perfectly safe until Dawn replied to her taunt by saying "Come in here and say that" and Harmony entered immediately. Buffy figured out it was Dawn because there was no one else at home who lived there and could have invited her in. The question is whether the inscription at the entrance was a legitimate invitation. Schools don't just let anyone in - there is too much equipment and too many student and teacher records on the premises.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom