Discussion of 5.08 "Destiny" - Airdate 11/19/03

I think this season is better than Buffy and Angel ever was. It's like the best writing styles combined. This episode was excellent. The stunt work was impressive. I also missed Dru a lot.
 
IT...WAS...AWESOME!!!
Best fight I had seen in a LONG time!!!
I was in awe the whole time...although I could have gone the rest of my life without seeing Spike and Harmony...*shudders*
And I was glad that they said everything they did in that fight. It was great. Airing it all out...and hey, I was so happy that they finally showed that Spike is so much stronger than most people give him credit for. I doubt that in the end he will get the honors since it is Angels show but it was good to see nonetheless.
 
I also liked it that they showed the strength of Spike. It was about time he got to show what he was made of. Angel was shocked and that made it even better for me.
 
Personally, I suspect Spike's increased strength comes from the spell-in-a-box or his experience with the amulet.

He's too much stronger than he was. Remember when he could hardly lift Olaf's hammer?
 
Great episode. Great fight (which was the whole point of this episode). Great twist, who would've thought? I would, read the spoilers. And again, one has to love Harmony, doesn't one?

A question: How come Spike is banging Harmony one second and when he stands up, has his pants on, fly zipped and all?

Apart from that minor mistake, it was really really great!
 
I was wondering the same thing about how can Spike have sex with harmony when his fly is zipped up.

Either Spikes little spike was still hanging out or ofcourse just a blooper.
 
I'm somewhat embarrassed to say that when Lindsay came onscreen I literally started shrieking with joy and jumping up and down. I LURVE LINDSAY!!!!!! I really should have noticed Christian Kane's name in the credits though, I'm getting forgetful in my old age. 🙂


Also, the whole Spike's nakedness issue, shouldn't Angel have had the same problem in the flashback with Drusilla? I wonder if it was two bloopers, or what
 
Actually, Christian's name didn't appear in the opening credits. They really just wanted to surprise us. 😀
 
I don't think they care if you like or dislike Spike. I don't think Spike cares if you like or dislike Spike either. That's sort of the point. Spike-with-soul is one of the good guys, more or less. But Spike-with-soul also threatened to kill Principal Wood and has no real remorse for having killed Wood's mom.


Why should he, since Wood tried to deliberately murder him, instead of confronting him about Nikki's death? If I had been Spike, I don't know if I would have spared Wood's life.
 
Originally posted by nerd4hire
Personally, I suspect Spike's increased strength comes from the spell-in-a-box or his experience with the amulet.

He's too much stronger than he was. Remember when he could hardly lift Olaf's hammer?
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I doubt that Spike, let alone Angel, would still be able to lift Olaf's hammer. Remember - Slayers are slightly stronger than vampires. Angel simply lost the fight. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I found it hard to believe that Angel was always able to beat a vampire, who seemed to have better luck against Slayers than he did.

Double Post (next time use the edit button!):

Originally posted by Primal Slayer
I was wondering the same thing about how can Spike have sex with harmony when his fly is zipped up.

Either Spikes little spike was still hanging out or ofcourse just a blooper.
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How do we know that his fly was zipped up? We weren't exactly given a full frontal view?
 
Originally posted by LadyLavinia
Angel simply lost the fight. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I found it hard to believe that Angel was always able to beat a vampire, who seemed to have better luck against Slayers than he did.
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A lot of time has past since these two fought each other (AtS S1). Spike has been through a lot since then. Probably spent time training with Buffy (between romps b'tween the sheets), the addition of his soul may have increased his strength and then there's the whole amulet and shiny in the box thing.

As for Angel, though I don't recall it ever being mentioned, I'm sure he's finished off a Slayer or two himself.

I think the battle came down to who believed stronger in the prophecy and who wanted it more. Angel sees the Shanshu as a burdon. Spike sees it as freedom.
 
LadyLavinia, I think what Primal Slayer was trying to say was that right after Harmony bit Spike, he shoved her off. There was absolutely no time for him to zip up his zipper, yet it was all zipped up, with his shirt tucked in.
 
Originally posted by Sekhmet2k1
A lot of time has past since these two fought each other (AtS S1). Spike has been through a lot since then. Probably spent time training with Buffy (between romps b'tween the sheets), the addition of his soul may have increased his strength and then there's the whole amulet and shiny in the box thing.

As for Angel, though I don't recall it ever being mentioned, I'm sure he's finished off a Slayer or two himself.

I think the battle came down to who believed stronger in the prophecy and who wanted it more. Angel sees the Shanshu as a burdon. Spike sees it as freedom.
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Angel has NEVER killed a Slayer. It has not been established that he has. If he had killed a slayer, I'm sure that ME would have established that fact, given his relationship with Buffy.

Spike's fighting hasn't improved to the point that he was finally able to beat Angel. Except for his early days as a vampire, I suspect that he has always been able to physically and skillfully fight Angel. Hell, he has had better luck against Slayers than his grandsire, and this is an achievement considering that Slayers are slightly stronger than vampires. I think that Spike's problems with Angel has always been psychological - an inferiority complex. It had nothing to do with Angel being stronger or a better fighter. And in "Destiny", I believe that Spike has taken his first step in overcoming that inferiority complex he's had about Angel.
 
Just because Mutant Enemy hasn't established that Angel killed a slayer, doesn't mean he hasn't. I mean, throughout the show they've made sure to point out that Angel is stronger and more powerful than Spike ever will be. So, and we're saying that every vampire would want to kill a slayer, it would only be natural that Angel would be able to kill his fair share of slayers as well.

And on the other side of that defense, since when does killing a slayer grant the status of biggest, baddest vampire in all the land? I mean, just because Spike killed a couple slayers does not mean he's the meanest and/or best vampire out there.

Just my two cents ... 😀
 
I litterally fell of my couch when i saw lindsey lol it was such a great episode i can't wait till the next new episode i always thought eve was a tad bit evil but i thought Lindsey left and was going good?
 
Originally posted by Rocket
Just because Mutant Enemy hasn't established that Angel killed a slayer, doesn't mean he hasn't. I mean, throughout the show they've made sure to point out that Angel is stronger and more powerful than Spike ever will be. So, and we're saying that every vampire would want to kill a slayer, it would only be natural that Angel would be able to kill his fair share of slayers as well.

And on the other side of that defense, since when does killing a slayer grant the status of biggest, baddest vampire in all the land? I mean, just because Spike killed a couple slayers does not mean he's the meanest and/or best vampire out there.

Just my two cents ... 😀
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Don't you think it would have come up at some point if Angelus had killed a slayer? Particularly when Giles researched him in season 1 of Buffy or when he turned up in season 2? The point of Angelus is that he's strong, clever and capable but he doesnt take risks. He picks on weak people and those he has obvious advantage over or he messes with people until they slip. Therefore any toe to toe with a slayer has resulted in getting an ass-whooping or retreat. Hell, Giles nearly beat Angelus in a fight after he murdered Jennifer Calendar! Although he did sucker punch him 😀

Baron
 
Originally posted by Baron Samedi
Don't you think it would have come up at some point if Angelus had killed a slayer? Particularly when Giles researched him in season 1 of Buffy or when he turned up in season 2? The point of Angelus is that he's strong, clever and capable but he doesnt take risks. He picks on weak people and those he has obvious advantage over or he messes with people until they slip.
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I'm inclined to agree with you on both points. That's definitely something Giles would have mentioned.

The writers could still try to put something in about Angelus having killed slayers, but then they'd have to explain away the fact that Giles didn't know about it, (and the fact that Angelus never gloated about it). This would be difficult since there had been a Watcher's Council for a very long time. I'm fairly certain the founding of the Watcher's Council predates Liam's birth by a wide margin.

In S7 Buffy, wasn't it hinted or stated that the Watcher's Council grew out of the Shadow Men?
 
I think that this was a great great episode! 🙂 There was a lot of action going on and fighting. It had a lot of comedy to it to! Also... the flashbacks were cool. 😎
 
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