Discussion of 5.12 "You're Welcome" (WB-US)

The episode was great...loved it. Of course, it was extremely sad. I can't believe Cordy's gone for good. ::crying:: So, we know she never woke up, but the gang saw her and acknowledged her. So, it can't just be Angel. My theory is that maybe she's a vision thing from the PTB...like how Darla appeared to Connor last season in his crisis. But, Darla did say that she was basically the PTB and not really Darla. It's sad to think that it wasn't really Cordy...or was it? I mean, she was higher power for a little while. Maybe it was her? There could have been some kind of exception? It just tears me up thinking that she died after all the stuff from last season...without even saying goodbye or really being there with the gang in some way. I hope that, somehow, that vision or appearance (whatever it was) was somehow truly her or her essence.

The action was great...I was shocked to see how much power Lindsey had. It didn't last long, as Angel kicked his butt. So, Lindsey's just done? Is he gonna try and get some revenge with Eve? She did say she'd try it. I don't know what they'd do...I mean, there's no more protection for them anymore. Wait...I bet the Senior Partners killed Lindsey. But, Eve...what else is she gonna do? Also, I guess Spike's with the gang now. He doesn't have a benefactor anymore. I also noticed some Fred and Wes moments...little looks and smiles. That was nice. Finally, I loved how Harmony and Cordy treated Eve. Muahahahaha...::fire::

Edited to comment that I like your theory, Eric. It sounds better than mine. I guess we'll never know for sure though. Another Angel mystery.
 
Interesting hypothesis Eric. That's sort of along the lines of what I was assuming they had in mind, but I had no idea of any of that you speak of.

I thought it was a really great episode and I was soooo sad at the end of it. I'm going to really miss Cordelia. I knew she would be leaving at the end of the episode but the whole time I was wishing she would stay.

I thought it was a fitting end for her character. She addressed Doyle as the first to fall in battle, realizing at the time that she had joined him amongst those who had fallen fighting the good fight.

On the other hand I did find Spike's behavior a bit odd during this episode. He had been built as a major player in this arc and suddenly became pretty much irrelevant. I have a feeling Spike may be the one feeling the blues after this episode instead of Angel. He seemed excited and alive about the prospects of his new life as a hero, only to find out it was all just a ploy by an old fo of Angel's. He'll probably feel like a pawn, always playing second best even though he beat Angel once. In his eye's that will never be enough and it will be interesting to see where he and Angel go from here.
 
My TV reception was pretty bad and I didn't get to see the episode properly.....but I was able to fix it enough to catch the last fifteen minutes of it.....and I tell ya, what a heartbreaking ending that was.
Not since the "I Will Remember You" eppie from Season 1 has a scene put a lump in my throat like that.

It was wonderful to see Cordelia back........even if only temporarily. She will be sorely missed.
 
Oh, one more thng, and I promise I'll shut up. 😛

I was justing thinking about Eric's theory. When they went into Cordy's hospital room, wasn't there a body still in the bed? Or something that looked like a body? Maybe it didn't seem like her body to Wes, Angel, and us viewers, but it actually was. She did pull the curtain in front of it. I don't know. I might just be wrong about that. I'll have to download the episode or something. Ahhh it's just so sad...
 
rene said:
isnt there suppsed to be a thread for the discussion?
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There would have been but my %$&*#^@&#@&^#@& roommate has been on the net since probably 6pm yesterday so I couldn't get online to post one. Someone can always take the initiative and start one...

Anyway, I only have seen the second half of this so far, but I can't believe they gave us back the Cordy we know and love only to kill her off...and ditto with Lindsay! Grrr...arrg... But that was so sad when Cordelia leaves at the end - totally made me want to cry.
 
Eric Faustus and Mdrio9: Combined, I think you've got it. Cordelia specifically stated that the PTB owed her a favor, she got to help Angel and set things write before leaving, and when Angel and Wes went into the room, no one actually saw the persons face, and Cordy hid the person behind the curtain.

All I have to say is that I'll miss Cordy, but I'm glad that if she's gone, sh'e really gone. It's not some lame "I'm off to better things", it's real, honest closure.

One more thing though: WHAT THE F@#$!!!!! David Fury wrote and Directed this episode? Am I the only one who sees something deeply wrong with this? It's just not the natural order of things! Where the hell was Joss? He's always done the really meaningful and "special eps" (not to say that others haven't also penned eps that were meaningful and special). I can think of so many that he's penned, and some aren't even that pivotal... Why didn't he do this episode?

~Kindred
 
Mdrio9: You are right about the hospital room. :: tu ::
I didn't even remember that but now that you mention it, I have no doubt that it was supposed to be Cordelia in that bed.
Cordelia said something like "this girl is near death" and then quickly closed the curtain.
This further confirms the idea of Cordelia's out-of-body "double" or something very close to that.
 
Wow, that was an intense episode. Everyone has great thoeries, but if that was Cordelia's astral projection or spirit or whatever, how did Spike taste her? Even if she was somehow in another body (which seems rather far-fetched), wouldn't Spike notice something? I am wondering if the whole thing up until the phone call may have been some sort of hallucination, like Buffy's in The Body or the Angel's about defeating the Beast the first time. It seems a little early to get rid of Lindsey just like it did with the Beast. I guess that it is anoyone's guess, especially with a promo like that. 😕
 
fantastic ep. it had humor, action, drama, plot twists, what more could ya ask for! it was hall of fame worthy all up until that blasted ending! i mean, it wasnt bad writing, but dangit i just hate to see her go!
 
from thewb.com

"ANGEL" CELEBRATES 100 KILLER EPISODES AND CHARISMA CARPENTER RETURNS! "“ In the 100th episode, Cordelia (Carpenter) mysteriously awakens from her coma and is shocked to discover that instead of fighting against the evil law firm, Wolfram & Hart, Angel (Boreanaz) and the group are now running it. Realizing that Angel has lost his conviction to be a hero, Cordelia gives him the information and support he needs to get back on track. Meanwhile, while Angel has security keeping an eye on Eve (Sarah Thompson), her partner Lindsay (guest star Christian Kane) prepares to bring about Angel's demise.
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I loved this episode. It was great seeing Cordy again, even if it was just one last time.

I loved when they played the video of Doyle from "Hero". It was so touching. I also loved seeing Sunnydale Cordy surface in her first meeting with Eve.

I don't really care what Cordy was in that ep. It just mattered to me that she was there and that she made a graceful exit.
 
::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2:

I don't read spoilers, so.... *bursts in tears

The very thought never even crossed my mind!! Now both of the original core 3 are gone... Which explains why they were playing Doyle's video. Who would've expected Angel to say "So when did she die"?? ARGHZ!!!!!

*is very depressed
 
Liam said:
::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2: ::crying2:

I don't read spoilers, so.... *bursts in tears

The very thought never even crossed my mind!! Now both of the original core 3 are gone... Which explains why they were playing Doyle's video. Who would've expected Angel to say "So when did she die"?? ARGHZ!!!!!

*is very depressed
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I was spoiled. Knew how it was suppose to end and still shed tears. The thing is while they could find a way to bring her back, at least for a guest shot or two, we will never have Doyle back. Glen Quinn is really gone from this world and that is something ME writers can do nothing about. 🙁
 
W.O.W! This is, without a doubt, my favorite Angel episode ever. I kept myself spoiler free, so the final scene shocked me like you wouldn't believe. Cordy is gone. Charisma Carpenter gave us 7 wonderful years as Cordelia. It's really hard to picture Cordelia as the bitch from Sunnydale in the first season of Buffy. She's changed so much and her character is greatly going to be missed.

Now let's be honest, who shed some tears while the credits were rolling... I did!
 
wow, damn. I am still royally confused. So is the Lindsey Eve thing from the eppy real or a dream? Is it one of these things that only angel will remember?

Very good eppy, the first one of the year that my whole family sat down to watch, and they are the ones that turned me onto buffy. (heck my dad doesn't leave the house for work until he has seen the buffy's on FX in the morning).

They didn't have to kill Cordie. I always loved her. But I hope that Charisma has other things in the works. You know, I just hope that they keep her in mind or a picture of her on the set.

the pictures. I assume the cake pic, the person between David and the dude that plays Gunn is Andy Halett, if that's the case, GOD does he look different from Lorne.
 
WilliamDaBloody said:
wow, damn. I am still royally confused. So is the Lindsey Eve thing from the eppy real or a dream? Is it one of these things that only angel will remember?

Very good eppy, the first one of the year that my whole family sat down to watch, and they are the ones that turned me onto buffy. (heck my dad doesn't leave the house for work until he has seen the buffy's on FX in the morning).

They didn't have to kill Cordie. I always loved her. But I hope that Charisma has other things in the works. You know, I just hope that they keep her in mind or a picture of her on the set.

the pictures. I assume the cake pic, the person between David and the dude that plays Gunn is Andy Halett, if that's the case, GOD does he look different from Lorne.
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Wow. Your family is soooo cool. I believe it was all real, in that all of the characters were there to experience it because Cordy told Angel to explain why she's leaving to the gang as soon as he does. I loved her too, but her character has gotten as far as she does. Even though I was spoiled, I was still shocked to see her die. I was expecting maybe a surprise twist and maybe she just walks off into the sunset. Yeah, and I hope it doesn't take them 4 years to acknowledge her again in the future like it did for Doyle's character.
 
yeah it kinda of does now make some sense. Too bad the real Doyle can't come back. Next they need to off Eve in the worst way ever.
 
I cried. But not before I saw that kiss three more times! Wow. I think that is now my favorite on screen kiss.

I just can't believe that they really killed her off. She's the best female character on the show (or any show). ::crying::

::idea:: Is there any possibility that they will bring her in for guest spots as a higher being? Please.
 
Joss is a thief

Joss and Co. stole an idea from me and my friends. In our Alternative version of BtVS Season 7, we have a departed character, Tara, make a few post-mortem visits to Sunnydale to help various characters, and this is essentially what happens with Cordelia in this episode.
 
Frustration

You know, I was watching last night's episode, enjoying Cordelia's reunion with the Fang Gang and her subsequent apprehension over their new positions with Wolfram & Hart . . . when I found myself coming upon the scene with Cordelia and Wes. And that is when my enjoyment of the episode stopped.

Why? Because for some reason I cannot fathom, Wes remembers his affair with Lilah Morgan. Despite the fact that he has no memories of Connor - whose presence led him into Lilah's arms in the first place.

Now, I had brought up this fact when Wes mentioned chopping up Lilah in "Lineage", some five episodes ago. And I was told that Mutant Enemy would eventually explain this. Well, you know what? They haven't. I also suspect that they never will. I suspect that this is simply a ploy for the writers not to have Wes and Lilah's affair hanging over their heads, while they emesh themselves in the "glory" of Wes' love for Fred in upcoming episodes.

Something similar has happened before - namely Spike's friendship with Dawn. Although I never openly complained about it, I was among those who were frustrated by ME's handling of the pair's friendship. They ignored it throughtout most of Season 6 and only brought it back as a plot device for the attempted rape scene between Buffy and Spike in "Seeing Red". After that, they had an excuse to end Spike and Dawn's friendship for good.

And now I see the same thing happening over the whole Wes/Lilah/Connor/Fred thing. Despite all logic, ME has decided to allow Wes to remember his affair with Lilah without explaining HOW he remembered . . . all so they can prepare us for his upcoming romance with Fred.

This is just the latest incident of frustration that has greeted me, while watching some of my favorite TV shows. A similar frustration had already led me to abandon CHARMED back in Season 5. I've been ignoring FRIENDS nearly all season long. And I'm growing frustrated with "24" and their handling of the David Palmer character, this season. But after the Cordelia/Wes scene in last night's ANGEL and reading further spoilers, I don't think I want to bother with the rest of the season. At least not now.
 
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