• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" - Aired 5/19/2004 (WB-US)

Taake

Keeper of the Continuum Transfunctioner
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
17,052
Age
34
Location
Stockholm, Swe
Black Thorn
I adored NFA, in fact I go and say I actually preferred it to the end of BTVS.

I loved how NFA has an almost mythic like end were are heros are left to fight on, their end undecided.

I mean "Lets go to work" Is it great line to end on imo.
Agree. I really love this ending and try not to think too much about the comics and who survived and didn't. Because I like the simplicity of "Let's go to work" and then just not knowing!

(hadn't it been for the comics I probably would have assumed that they all died. Which isn't sad to me because they would all have gone down making that final stand)
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,523
Sineya
While this episode was quite sad and heartbreaking, I thought that it was the perfect way to wrap thing up, especially because of the last scene where thousands of demons approach the remaining members of Angel Investigations, to which Angel says "Let's go to work".
IMO, that last scene showed what Angel Investigations is all about and that's probably why I liked it as much as I did.
 

bespangeled

Scooby
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
3,389
Location
Tucson
Black Thorn
Buffy ended with the closing of the Hellmouth to make sure an invasion of uber-vamps does not attack and destroy the world.

Angel ended with killing the Black Thorn even though it opened the world to an invasion of demons who will attack and destroy the world.

And can you really sign away a prophecy?
 

Charmander

Potential
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
218
Age
26
Location
England
I'm torn over the decision to kill Wesley. I wasn't happy about them killing off Anya in the final minutes of BtVS either because I think you need a lengthier grieving period for a long-term character. (I.e. Having a 2 part finale and killing the character off in the first half) But then again Wesley's death scene was very well-done with the touching moment between "Fred" and Wes, and the cliffhanger over whether Illyria had feelings for Wes. Similar to my point about Harmony. I understand that she is soulless but they did a pretty decent job of developing her as a character willing to do good; not everything has to be rainbows and unicorns but it seems a little disappointing to make her betray them right at the end.
I think the episode overall was better than Buffy's finale, as was the final season in general, but there was a bit too much going on.
 

VisionBoy

Scooby
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
1,072
Age
28
Sineya
Buffy ended with the closing of the Hellmouth to make sure an invasion of uber-vamps does not attack and destroy the world.

Angel ended with killing the Black Thorn even though it opened the world to an invasion of demons who will attack and destroy the world.
The apocalypse was already going ahead either way. That's pretty much the choice they always have- wait for the world to end, or fight before it does. The latter will always risk some major death and destruction... but ultimately it's gotta be at least a little better than the former.
 

bespangeled

Scooby
Joined
May 26, 2014
Messages
3,389
Location
Tucson
Black Thorn
The apocalypse was already going ahead either way. That's pretty much the choice they always have- wait for the world to end, or fight before it does. The latter will always risk some major death and destruction... but ultimately it's gotta be at least a little better than the former.
According to Lindsey, the apocalypse was daily life. Not exactly a situation that needed extreme action immediately. Yes, taking down the Black Thorn was a good goal - but in deciding to do that they knowingly unleashed an apocalypse of innumerable ferocious demons on the city of LA. They all knew they wouldn't survive - they all knew that the demons would be free to roam and kill with no one left in LA to fight them. So they made a statement, and everyone else pays the price.
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,523
Sineya
The "previously on" thing is back :D

One big happy Manson family :p (Speaking of that, how the hell is Charles Manson still alive ??? o_O).

Hamilton, always thought that there was something about him...

Sebassis :eek:

The original prophecy :eek:

Don't sign it...:mad:

He signed it :(

Harmony, you were a sheep that liked to follow Cordy around...:rolleyes:

Harmony seems to have matured a bit...

The devil you know > The devil you don't know.

Illyria is dying, shame :(

Connor :eek:

Annie :eek:

Gunn, don't do this to her :(

Why does Illyria always wear the same clothes ??? o_O

Wes, you will die tonight...

Spike's reading poetry in public :p

Eve...:rolleyes:

Spike volunteers to betray Angel :p

What's Lorne going to be doing ??? o_O

Harmony and Hamilton :eek:

Lorne's leaving :(

Demons smoking a water pipe :eek:

Cool swords ;)

Harmony has been caught :D

She got fired :D

Spike, run with the baby...

Connor :eek:

The senator is dead :D

Lindsay, no one trusts you...

R.I.P Lindsay.

R.I.P Wesley :(

Illyria has feelings :eek:

He doesn't know what he's messing with...

He fed on Hamilton :eek:

Ding dong Hamilton is dead :D

Go home Connor...

Spike's ok, and Gunn is too :D

Illyria is here too :D

More violence :D

...and it ends with a cliffhanger, which I don't like but I can live with it :)

The End
 

DagonSphere

Potential
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
234
Age
32
I was displeased about the cliffhanger too, when this episode first aired. Now, I honestly really like the ending, I don't always need to see a big battle and I am also kind of unsure how it all would have gone down, since they didn't really have a big budget to pull off a big battle anyway. To see these four characters go out fighting was kind of cool. To this day, I am more upset about how the cancellation cut the Illyria/Wesley storyline short, because that was just such a fascinating dynamic and I would have loved to see more of that. The cliffhanger doesn't bother me as much, because if the show had gone on, our heroes would have made it through it, even Wes would have survived, as Joss has been telling for years.

I think one of my favorite moments in the finale is when Illyria tells Gunn "Don't die, you are not unpleasant to my eyes".

Adam Baldwin was a great villain. I loved him in this role and wish he had been there from the beginning of the season instead of Eve. How pointless the Eve character was is once again illustrated in the finale where she is nothing but Lindsey's worrying girlfriend with nowhere to go and nothing to do once the apocalypse goes down.
 

FaithLehane16

"Tact is not saying true stuff. I'll pass."
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,321
Age
26
Location
United States
I hate cliffhangers (and I don't care WHAT Joss says, THAT WAS A CLIFFHANGER!). I can tolerate them to some extent from one episode to the next, or even, if absolutely necessary, from the end of one season to the beginning of the next. But for Joss to intentionally end Season 5 knowing that there would be no Season 6 was cruel and inconsiderate to the fans who have been faithful to him since "Welcome To The Hellmouth" and "City Of Angels." I can admit and freely allow that there were just too many issues in play at that time to settle each and every one of them, but the show could have ended on a more hopeful note that three warriors facing off against an entire army.
I agree. I find it hard to believe that 3 soldiers with 1 wounded, are enough to kill a whole army with a dragon and a giant. Angel needed more help. Joss was dumb to not let him have the Scoobies to help Angel out.
 
Last edited:

burrunjor

Potential
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
318
Age
29
Just finished this today, absolutely brilliant finale. Better than Buffy's I'd say.

Overall Angel finished on a high, which was good as it also marked the end of the entire Buffyverse too (though I still hope for a Fray tv series.)
 

white avenger

white avenger
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
15,946
Age
73
Location
rome, georgia
I find it hard to believe that 3 soldiers with 1 wounded, are enough to kill a whole army with a dragon and a giant.
And just for the record, I also think that the deus ex machina solution that they finally got around to using in the"After The Fall" arc in the comics was probably the most lame excuse for a "solution" like this that has ever been imagined.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,118
Age
38
And just for the record, I also think that the deus ex machina solution that they finally got around to using in the"After The Fall" arc in the comics was probably the most lame excuse for a "solution" like this that has ever been imagined.
I agree with James Marsters on this. I think its best if Angel and Co died swinging in that alley. I definitely prefer that to After the Fall or urgh Twilight...
 

Angel6

Potential
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
284
I agree with James Marsters on this. I think its best if Angel and Co died swinging in that alley. I definitely prefer that to After the Fall or urgh Twilight...
Looking back on this years later....

I feel like the impactful ending has been so cheapened by the god awful follow on comics. The message of the show was that if nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do, and if that’s making a last stand even thought it’s hopeless, that’s what they do, because it’s the right thing to do, and that’s the reward. I felt like it had the potential to be a classically tragic ending like the Ending to Blackadder 4.

To be honest for me if they get out of it, it’s just a crap ending, there’s nothing poignant about it.
 

Faded90

Potential
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
239
Age
62
Looking back on this years later....

I feel like the impactful ending has been so cheapened by the god awful follow on comics. The message of the show was that if nothing we do matters, all that matters is what we do, and if that’s making a last stand even thought it’s hopeless, that’s what they do, because it’s the right thing to do, and that’s the reward. I felt like it had the potential to be a classically tragic ending like the Ending to Blackadder 4.

To be honest for me if they get out of it, it’s just a crap ending, there’s nothing poignant about it.
Agreed, everything about the set up of the final scene was to basically tell us that they WILL die. Even down to the rain and the way they look totally bedraggled

The comics are AU as far as I’m concerned and the word Twilight has absolutely no place in the Buffyverse
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
1,118
Age
38
Agreed, everything about the set up of the final scene was to basically tell us that they WILL die. Even down to the rain and the way they look totally bedraggled

The comics are AU as far as I’m concerned and the word Twilight has absolutely no place in the Buffyverse
Yep as far as I'm concerned they all died swinging in that alley.
 
Top Bottom