Discussion of 8.15 "Wolves at the Gate Part 4" - Released 04/06/08 (Dark Horse)

[frayadjacent]

I think overall the issue wasn't that bad, I've personally liked the Joss and Brian K. Vaughn issues better. Issue 15 probably could've benefited by being split into two stories, but then again I'm a sucker for long drawn out multiple panel fights in comic books.

Mecha dawn was awesome no matter how far-fetched it was (it is comics people.) At first I didn't know how I felt about the Dawn/Godzilla reference in the last issue (even though her "roar" was an awesome line) but the arrival of the Robot Dawn and her banter provided just enough cheese to make the homage work.

I believe the snake woman is the Goddess Hecate. In other comics and stories she's been depicted as a snake woman (for all you non-comic vets looking to get into comics, try the original Hellboy series that's also on the Darkhorse imprint.) Plus Wiki describes her as: ""¦ultimately achieved her connotations as a goddess of sorcery and her role as the "Queen of Ghosts","¦Today she is sometimes associated with witchcraft"¦ she was also associated with a serpentine maze around a spiral, known as Hecate's wheel"¦The symbolism referred to the serpent's power of rebirth "¦The goddess of sorcery or magic is Hecate's most common modern title"¦ In another aspect she is the mother of many monsters,"¦"
And I've always heard her referred to as simply "Goddess" and I believe Willow even mentioned her by name as Goddess and Queen of the Crossroads (her other title) in a couple of spells in previous seasons.

I personally don't mind that Buffy is bi or lesbian or whatever, I just don't think Satsu has had enough face time in the series to fully develop as a character. Plus I can see all the Bangel or Spuffy fans getting upset at the possibility of her permanently switching teams. And remember, this isn't the first time Buffy surprised us/everyone with relationships (even you Spuffy fans have to admit that was more of a surprise than "Batsu" was.)

Best moments of the issue was the Mecha-Dawn banter and the exchange between Xander and Dracula at the end of the issue. I wonder if they'll reveal the back story of the time they spent together?

On a side note, I saw somebody mentioned Faith and where she was in a post. I think it'd be interesting to see a side story line with Giles as Faith's watcher. A kind of Black Ops duo, since they're bother killers...Maybe that'll be the mini-series spin-off for the comics.

 

[willow23]

I don't think that Spuffy was more surprising that Batsu. I mean, the sexual tension had been there for years. We had known about Spike loving Buffy for a year and Buffy had been flirting with Spike, as well as confiding in him.

The whole Batsu was not drawn out in the same manner and the seeds were really not there. It was very abrupt, particularly because, previously Buffy had been, well, pretty damn strait.

 

[Senior Watcher]

yeah, im not to sure about the batsu situation. with willow "coming out" it really helped the story become greater than it was. the "willow and tara" love story is one of the greatest love stories ever told. lots of love; lots of drama; lots of tragedy.

buffy and satsu on the other hand, i still havent figured it out. why have a fling with a girl twice if you arent gay? im really confused. this "sub-arc" isnt progressing the story at all. as of right now, it seems more like a publicity stunt than anything.

but, i never doubt the joss-man. everything happens for a reason in his world. nothing is done without purpose. so, batsu was formed for a reason............that reason has yet to be revealed.

 

[sosa lola]

I don't think you really have to be gay to sleep with the same sex, as they say, there's no such thing as definite label. Buffy was mourning sex and connection and she found it with Satsu even though she enjoys sex with a man more than a woman. The only man around is Xander and that's just gonna be too complicated especially when Xander has feelings for Renee.

 

[Electra]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I loved this episode. It was sad to see Renee go as I genuinely liked her, but Joss always has a master plan and I have faith in him. If that master plan turns into A Xander and Buffy hookup, I'm canceling my vote for Joss for President, though. 😛

I lol'd through the whole mecha-Dawn thing. I loved it. I didn't care that it wouldn't seem plausible for real life; lots of things that happened on Buffy didn't seem plausible in RL situations. Buffy swan-diving off the building was a cool touch, especially her pleas for Willow to 'wake up wake up wake up'. *lol*

And yeah . . . I love the Buffy/Satsu bits. *dodges rotten tomatoes* I was unsure at first when we learned that Satsu was crushing on Buffy, but I've come to love Satsu as a character, and as a love interest for Buffy. It feels awkward for a lot of people, and I get that, but for me it feels all kindsa natural. I hope that Joss doesn't just end Satsu like that. I mean, I get it if he ends the Buffy/Satsu thing, I'm not worried about that. I just hope Satsu doesn't disappear altogether now. I've really come to enjoy her character.

I'd give this ep 4 1/2 out of 5 stars. 😀

 

[gilesfan1980]

The Xander/Dracula connection confirms (at least to me) that the other Buffy-related comics are going to be incorporated into the storyline... And if I'm not mistaken, the in Spike vs. Dracula comics, it was Spike, Druscilla and Darla that killed the woman who gave Dracula his powers. He was also in love with this woman. So I think when he saw Xander lose his newfound lover, Dracula recognized the pain he was in... and it was amplified even more, as Drac also just lost the powers his own former lover gave him...

I really like the Drac/Xander thing. It can get pretty deep....

 

[Superstar]

The Xander/Dracula connection confirms (at least to me) that the other Buffy-related comics are going to be incorporated into the storyline...

The problem, to me especially so in this case, is that since it is by the same writer even if it were not directly incorporated the story still lives in the writer's mind and connections are difficult to avoid because to the writer this is what happened.

You mentioned Spike vs Dracula. I will use it as an example.
While I am not a fan of Peter David's writing (he has too much of a modern Star Trek writer mentality), these are more easily disregarded as simply stories.
What do I mean by modern Star Trek writer mentality?
Remember Quantum Leap?
And... Peter David is known as a popular Star Trek author. Go figure.

Issue 1 has Spike, Dru and Darla meeting Dracula who burns Spike's book that he paid 11 quid for (reference to money owed from Buffy vs Dracula).
Ok story, but easily forgettable.
Issue 2 has Spike, Dru and Dracula meeting Bela Lugosi and Ed Wood.
Lame story. Lame in all caps.
Issue 3 has Spike and Dracula rescuing Darla and Drac's bride from the Nazis, meeting a captured werewolf by the surname of Osbourne (hello? More lameness knocking) and rescuing him. Spike is then double-crossed by Drac who has sent 2 other vampires to meet him on some flimsy and unbelievable excuse while Drac has a personal meeting with Hitler. These 3 are later captured to be placed on a certain submarine. *sigh*
Can we try to tie in every Spike plot thread possible here? Began to choke on the references.
Issue 4
Time to tie-in Italy.
Boring story. More famous people. Move it along.
Issue 5
Angel, Wolfram & Hart and 11 quid owed.
Funny enough, the most entertaining issue of the series.

Heaven forbid if Peter David were to write a "Joss canon" story, because you would see these references pop up.
As independent stories, they are what they are.

And this is how we get Betta George.
That was one Joss liked, so we live with it.
So, other references to Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadow Puppets may appear simply because it is the same co-writer as Angel: After the Fall.
To that writer, these things happened.

 

[gilesfan1980]

If they are to incorporate/connect events that have happened in the other comics, it's important they stay interesting and don't get in the way of the season 8+ comics.

For example, in one of the Tales of the Slayers, Fray discovered a library full of the history of the slayers. So if she's to be in any future episodes, she should know about Buffy. To me, it would be nice to see this without dominating the episode altogether. Knowing Joss, he'll probably have them not even liking each other...

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Well... Buffy and Kendra butted heads at first. Buffy and Faith had only a small window of time where they actually got along. Considering what the Slayer is, and the personalities of nearly every one we've seen, I'd be surprised if there wasn't some friction.

 

[Varr]

gotta agree with everybody on the buffy- satzu thing. It doesn't seem all too "real" yeah i get the whole idea of "oh snaps this happened?' But buffy now being bi? it just kinda seems like a way to pull in new readers, i mean where in the past has buffy ever shown interest in women?

 

[Buffy Summers]

Agreed. I don't mind it per se, but it doesn't really seem to fit. Though I did think their conversation when Satsu says she's staying was nice.

The Xander-Renee thing fits the best out of almost any relationship I've seen him have, though.

I do like how this whole working with Dracula thing is going. I'm liking it much more than I expected. And he has become kind of badass.

"The vampire's the least of your concerns. It's the old man you need to worry about."

Xander executing the vamp who speared Renee was pretty powerful as well. As was Buffy's "Cut they down as they flee. Kill every single one of them."

Do NOT like the whole Dawn robot thing. They've taken something dumb (giant Dawn) and made it dumber. I liked Dawn taking charge more, but then the robot came. Ugh.

 

[Robb Stark]

Great climax issue...for the most part.

All of the Xander-Dracula stuff was, again, awesome. I liked the "He's not alone" line a lot. The scene with Willow and snake lady was kind of confusing, and robot Dawn was just, I'm sorry, stupid.

I'm glad they aren't going to draw out Buffy-Satsu any further. Their last pages together was the best they've had, and having Satsu remain in Japan at the end was a good tie-up.

The best part of the issue was Xander beheading the vampire who executed Renee.