Discussion of 8.34 "Twilight Part 3" - Released 4/07/10 (Dark Horse)

[white avenger]

Angel is invincible, according to Allie that extends to his curse too.

Invincible means Angel can't be defeated, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the conditions of his curse. Neither does invulnerable. If they've come up with some way to permanently anchor Angel's soul in place, it's gonna have to be something other than that. Otherwise, they're going against their own canon. Now, I can accept that something might have happened that we aren't aware of that might solve Angel's problem. What I find hard to fathom is why Buffy, who should know more than anyone else in the world the consequences of bringing back Angelus, would take that sort of risk again with no more assurance than his word that the curse is gone.

This is supposed to be the new, mature, responsible, General Buffy here, not some starry eyed high school girl who has no idea what the consequences of her actions might be. I have no problem whatsoever with hugging, kissing, and declaring renewed undying love, each for the other, but until she has some sort of proof beyond Angel's word and a little glowing aura, her actions are irresponsible and quite likely endangering everyone else.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

What I find hard to fathom is why Buffy, who should know more than anyone else in the world the consequences of bringing back Angelus, would take that sort of risk again with no more assurance than his word that the curse is gone.

Wasn't it an enchantment...what with all the glowing and crap or did I miss something?

 

[Tranquillity]

Wow. That’s a lot of naked flesh. And sex. And so many positions. It was really quite educational. That is as graphic as Buffy has ever got, ever. Season six just got sucker-punched people. And while I found it too distracting, to the detriment of the story, I can see why it is included in all it’s skin-coloured glory; they have to have huge-out-of-this-world-time-travelling-sex in order to bring about the destruction of the earth (or is that universe?). And they say that next issue things get ‘weirder’ too. Oh my.

High point for me – seeing Spike even for a little moment and the promise of ‘soon’ – soon can’t come soon enough!! I don’t know, I like my Buffy with a clenched fist and fighting monsters rather than x-rated, so sue me.

Giles’ revelations are kinda disturbing (though you’d think he would have mentioned something about it a bit earlier, what with Twilight being the bad-guy and his knowing about the suicidal watchers and all) – man that guy needs to learn to communicate! But then, on the flip side – he didn’t know that Buffy would be the chosen chosen one and in Typical Giles style, he is prepared to do what he must do to destroy them in order to save the world. It does reinforce, if you were in any doubt that this Bangel love fest is not a good thing. (good for B&A, sure – multiple big Os for them – but not so much for the rest of humanity)

Was it enchantment? – I didn’t really see it as such, buffy I think is beign driven by desire, pure and simple - but Angel, I'm not so sure about. At the end he does seem to be aware of what they have achieved through coitus, Buffy not so (and while I'm at it - what is with the silly outfits they end up wearing?)

I've got to read it again and concentrate on what Giles and Willow are saying - I think this is what is really important in this issue. . .

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Seeing Spike in that "Soon" panel was also a high point for me. I may hate Spuffy but I do like Spike. 🙂

 

[Krj2501]

Hmmm ... we were warned this would happen with this issue - I believe it was Scot Allie who said that Buffy/Angel shippers may love this issue - while the Spike fans will hate it.

Personally - As a Bangel -- I loved this issue.

And yes - the sex scenes were a bit graphic (anymore an the issue would have had to be rated MA or NC17). But I see it as kind of payback for us Bangels whom had to endure the Buffy/Spike sex fest of Season 6

 

[citiegal17]

I think this prophetcy actually sheds light on why Angel would want to banish Magic, which would result in the end of the slayer line till Fray, and right now the whole future him still makes sense, as well as the Older Party part as well(the universe). It fits his character's motives for creating Twilight in the first place.

 

[Tranquillity]

Hmmm ... we were warned this would happen with this issue - I believe it was Scot Allie who said that Buffy/Angel shippers may love this issue - while the Spike fans will hate it.

Personally - As a Bangel -- I loved this issue.

And yes - the sex scenes were a bit graphic (anymore an the issue would have had to be rated MA or NC17). But I see it as kind of payback for us Bangels whom had to endure the Buffy/Spike sex fest of Season 6

Oh, I think that DH peeps were quite wrong - As a Spuffy I didn't hate it - I actually found quite a lot to like and look forward to and it was nowhere near as dire as predicted. I actually feel better about Buffy and Spike than I did a week ago. Angel, on the other hand - I'm incredibly worried for.

 

[white avenger]

You know, the Buffy/Angel glowing thing, along with all of what racheltng posted above has reminded me of something similar that happened once before, in Season 7. In the hellmouth in those last moments, when Buffy and Spike clasped hands. The flames. To steal a line from "The Girl Next Door," what if Buffy, Angel, and Spike are the three legs of the tripod? (I know, if you didn't see the movie, that means nothing whatsoever to you. Rush out and rent it)

 

[Tranquillity]

I just read someone on another Forum describe the issue with this quote:

"It wasn't one time. It was lots of times. And lots of different ways. I can make sketches."
The Buffybot, Intervention

he he he 🙂

 

[Bangellove]

yeah however Buffy and Angel were the ones that got those sketches 🙂

 

[cranetimothyj]

Biggest disappointment of the issue- Buffy making Angel take his trenchcoat off, that would've been soooo Ho-ot!

 

[Kean]

Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just saying what Allie said.

Invincible means Angel can't be defeated, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the conditions of his curse.

Well, if we want to get technical, the curse is a way of defeating Angel. If his soul is lost it essentially kills Angel, the fact that Angelus is left in his place is totally irrelavant because the essence of Angel would be gone.

So, for that reason alone, I can buy the all-over invulnerability.

 

[Eleftheria]

^ If that's so then you have a point!!!

I don't know I should be jumping around being so happy for bangel steamy love!:biggrin3::tongue3: But I don't know what's to come and what is hiding behind that...and why Angel chose to do whatever he did as Angel...

And thanks racheltng for all the info...so they are...you know...in every page??? that's too much!!!perhaps bangel is having vengeance for being absent in some seasons...lol! I don't know what to say:confused2:

 

[Kean]

^ If that's so then you have a point!!!

I don't know I should be jumping around being so happy for bangel steamy love!:biggrin3::tongue3: But I don't know what's to come and what is hiding behind that...and why Angel chose to do whatever he did as Angel...

And thanks racheltng for all the info...so they are...you know...in every page??? that's too much!!!perhaps bangel is having vengeance for being absent in some seasons...lol! I don't know what to say:confused2:

Well we are not going to get a happy ending, of that I am certain.

However, Angel is clearly under the influence of Twilight here, he is more a vessel for this force than anything else. He seems to have been under the influence of this for some time, Buffy is only beginning. I think we will find her fighting both to stop the universe but also to save Angel from Twilight.

Buffy does destiny on her terms, not anyone elses. She doesn't know what is going on right now but once she gathers herself together, she will hit back. She won't bend for for anyone, not even the universe... Or maybe Angel too, they were ...um, very bendy in this issue.:X3:

What I am happy about is the confirmation that what Buffy and Angel feel for each other is organic and the universe is using their love and bond, and is not responsible for creating that love as was earlier believed. Once I know that, I can handle anything else.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

After reading all this thread about Buffy and Angel being locked in an unbreakable horizontal mambo, all I can say is FINALLY!! At last.. I can say that Riley been there and done that first! WOOT.. I knew sooner or later Angel would get seconds to Riley, and finally it happened.. maybe I need to read the comic now.

 

[white avenger]

Well we are not going to get a happy ending, of that I am certain.

However, Angel is clearly under the influence of Twilight here, he is more a vessel for this force than anything else. He seems to have been under the influence of this for some time, Buffy is only beginning. I think we will find her fighting both to stop the universe but also to save Angel from Twilight.

Buffy does destiny on her terms, not anyone elses. She doesn't know what is going on right now but once she gathers herself together, she will hit back. She won't bend for for anyone, not even the universe... Or maybe Angel too, they were ...um, very bendy in this issue.:X3:

What I am happy about is the confirmation that what Buffy and Angel feel for each other is organic and the universe is using their love and bond, and is not responsible for creating that love as was earlier believed. Once I know that, I can handle anything else.

(Don't shoot the messenger! I'm just saying what Allie said.***I never shoot messengers. It's a waste of both messengers and ammunition. I just hope that they can come up with some sort of REASONABLE explanation as to why Buffy/Angel calisthenics don't result in Angelus. Like, maybe, she doesn't give him that COMPLETE happiness anymore. If you really think about it, that might be the closest thing to a chance for a permanent relationship that they could have)

I do agree that this is not going to be the illusive "happily ever after" for Buffy and Angel.

I also agree that first Angel and now Buffy are under the thrall of some outside force, obviously malevolent, and quite possibly as old and powerful as the First Evil. Maybe something from Illyria's time, or even earlier.

And once more I qualify this by saying that I have not as yet read the issue, but Buffy and Angel's little sex-capade reminds me of a similar scene at a Halloween party when she had a similar romp with Riley. Which refers back to the thrall thing.

This story line is getting very interesting, especially considering how Season 8 had, for me, at least, begun to lose some of its momentum, and the next 5 issues, with Joss doing the story telling, should be really...Whedonesque.

The promise of Spike showing up later in the season raises my hopes that finally we will get to see something that I, at least, have always hoped for: to have Spike be the rescuER for once, and not the rescuED. I would love to see him bring Illyria along for extra firepower, especially if the real menace proves to be something as old and powerful as she is, and the devil in me would really chortle at the stuttering and stammering that could ensue if Connor and Nina showed up as well. Of course, since they belong exclusively to the Angel series, that might not be possible.

 

[Eleftheria]

Ok Kean, girl it doesn't let me to karma you again. Anyway, I also believe that bangel may seem more than happy now but sth BIG is coming...I just don't know how big it is and how dangerous. :frown3: I suspect that whatever twilight is...it is definitely using them for something. But why them? Because their love is great? Because their passion is so huge? because Buffy did the one thing no other Slayer could do?(sharing power). I hope we get some good explanations.

PS: ok I WILL find this comic and see these pictures...every bangeler deserves that!:tongue3: I hope I will not be unhappy with what i will see...

 

[Kean]

But why them? Because their love is great? Because their passion is so huge? because Buffy did the one thing no other Slayer could do?(sharing power). I hope we get some good explanations.

All of the above?

The impression I got is that Buffy, in creating power, evolved as a slayer, she brought something new into the world. Now the Universe is working to push this evolution to its peak, trim the fat of humanity. The powers that Buffy has gained are a reward from the Universe for pushing the world on to this next evolutionary step. Part of what makes Buffy different from other slayers is her relationship with vampires, specifically Angel but also Spike. They too were the exceptions of their kind, the best of their kind. So the universe recognising Angel as Buffy's other half used the love and bond that they already had, it's sort of cheering them on. All that geological stuff that was happening, that was the Universe encouraging Buffy and Angel, not Buffy and Angel causing those changes. Basically the Universe wants them to be together, however, that apparently ushers in the end of humanity as we know it.

 

[Eleftheria]

You have a point. No other slayer has ever had a relationship with vampires, two of them! Maybe it's the demonic nature of their powers that makes them feel so close...plus Buffy is the special slayer.

I like the phrase "that was the Universe encouraging Buffy and Angel". At least now they are together and they get support from the universe. Being soulmates they complement each other perfectly and that creates something.

 

[white avenger]

Now the Universe is working to push this evolution to its peak, trim the fat of humanity.

So the universe recognizing Angel as Buffy's other half used the love and bond that they already had, it's sort of cheering them on. All that geological stuff that was happening, that was the Universe encouraging Buffy and Angel, not Buffy and Angel causing those changes. Basically the Universe wants them to be together, however, that apparently ushers in the end of humanity as we know it.

All of the above would seem to justify everything that Twilight's forces have been doing all season, which makes it look to me as though Angel has been actively working to bring about the end of mankind. And since he obviously knew in advance that him being with Buffy once more would be the catalyst that puts that event in motion, the absolute LAST thing that he would willingly do would be to even be on the same continent with her. That would seem to add more weight, if it is even needed, to the argument that someone or someTHING else has been directing Angel's, and now Buffy's, actions.

Now, if the universe is actually bringing, as in FORCING, these two champions into a position where their combined existence threatens the welfare of, not just humanity, but the very order of creation, the only solution to the problem just MAY be for Buffy or Angel, or both, to leave their universe before the damage is irreparably done. In other words, it's the Hell-bound Express for Buffy or Angel, probably the former, since we've been told that Season 9 will have her in "a different landscape."

Here's a thought: Season 9 has Buffy back in the "Normal Again" universe, trying to escape and return home. She has no powers there, so she tries to enlist the help of a crusty old librarian, a computer geek, a stumble bum carpenter...well, you get the idea.