Discussion of 8.35 "Twilight Part 4" - Released 5/05/10 (Dark Horse)

Thanks for posting, Andrew. 🙂 I think it's save to say anything without putting it in spoiler tab here.

Good Buffy. You go girl!(Even I still don't understand why she did what she did in issue 34). And Angel just does what Buffy told him to? A little meh here. ^_^

And it's like what WA, it ended with Spike and we have to wait for 3 months.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
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It's good that Buffy made the right decision with regard to the future... but she's still got the past to atone for. Choosing to have sex with the mass-murderer of her friends is the worst thing she's ever done. God knows how many millions of people have died already due to these marauding demon armies and natural disasters that Angel and Buffy are directly responsible for.

And Angel made it clear he'd be perfectly content to see the world destroyed as long as he and his squeeze could be happy in their selfish little Paradise.

I have to say that for the first time, I genuinely hate Angel. Like Willow, I hate him more now than when he was Angelus.
 
It's good that Buffy made the right decision with regard to the future... but she's still got the past to atone for. Choosing to have sex with the mass-murderer of her friends is the worst thing she's ever done. God knows how many millions of people have died already due to these marauding demon armies and natural disasters that Angel and Buffy are directly responsible for.

And Angel made it clear he'd be perfectly content to see the world destroyed as long as he and his squeeze could be happy in their selfish little Paradise.

I have to say that for the first time, I genuinely hate Angel. Like Willow, I hate him more now than when he was Angelus.

So Angel was controlled by Twilight? What about Buffy? Don´t tell me she f*cked him because she loves him. That would no make sense at all. On the other side if only Angel was under a spell it was a freakin rape. 🙁 I have to read it myself but if that´s the case i don´t know what to ......

My Angel wouldn´t destroy the whole world only to be with her forever. WTF! That´s ridicilous and i´m sure the AtF Angel would never do that too.

btw: Is Twilight still in control of Angel or is it gone?
 
So Angel was controlled by Twilight? What about Buffy? Don´t tell me she f*cked him because she loves him. That would no make sense at all. On the other side if only Angel was under a spell it was a freakin rape. 🙁 I have to read it myself but if that´s the case i don´t know what to ......

It's pretty clear that Buffy was pushed into the sex, but not forced. She did it voluntarily, but she wouldn't have done it without Twilight's influence.

My Angel wouldn´t destroy the whole world only to be with her forever. WTF! That´s ridicilous and i´m sure the AtF Angel would never do that too.

btw: Is Twilight still in control of Angel or is it gone?

Don't know. I don't know that Twilight was "controlling" him any more than it was Buffy. If it was control, they wouldn't have been able to defy it. Clearly, their free will was still intact.
 
Ok, seriously people, everyone has been saying over and over again how much they want Spike back, you got him! What's the big?
 
Ok, seriously people, everyone has been saying over and over again how much they want Spike back, you got him! What's the big?

I agree. I wouldn't have expected 'Spike and futuristic spaceship/tank' to be in the same sentence at all. I'm very excited and literally counting the hours until my comic shop opens...
 
R
racheltng
People don't get what they want, they complain. People get what they want, they still complain.
Ok, seriously people, everyone has been saying over and over again how much they want Spike back, you got him! What's the big?

As one of the "people," I can only say that I am happy to see Spike here, if for no other reason, to settle the speculation, once and for all, about whether she knew that he had returned or not, and if not, why? Remember, somebody assigned a team of Slayers to patrol Los Angeles (or was ir really just to keep tabs on Buffy's two immortal boyfriends) which would seem to me to indicate that they were reporting back to somebody. If mot "Mama Slayer," who, and why was the information kept from her.

I've said before, I wanted Buffy to have her reunion with Angel. I wanted them to have their time, alone, to simply be together. Well, they got that, and in spades. Now, I want Joss to allow Spike the same courtesy, if for no other reason, simply because he has earned it. He has changed more and suffered more for Buffy than Angel ever has or possibly could (okay, that's my opinion. Feel welcome to form your own as you see fit)

My objection to Spike's arrival has nothing to do with him being there and everything to do with the (completely predictable and totally unnecessary) cliffhanger ending to this issue, with a three month wait for the next installment. At the very least, if a cliffhanger ending MUST be used, it should be a surprise. How many people were even slightly in doubt that Spike would make an appearance before Joss started his final arc? But more than a surprise, it should be a plot device used sparingly, or the writers become like the little boy who cries "Wolf!" too often. Eventually, nobody wants to hear it anymore. We had a cliffhanger ending in Season 7, between "Touched" and "Chosen," which wasn't as bad, since there was only a week's wait. (And, arguably, a cliffhanger with Spike dying in "Chosen," then popping up again the next fall in Angel's Season 5) Then we had a cliffhanger ending in "Not Fade Away," whether Joss chose to call it one or not. Renee gets stabbed at the end of Issue 14, leaving us a month to wonder. And so on.

And here we have yet another good ol' cliffhanger.

As a plot device, Joss has worn this one out. It's time to try something new and innovative, like, maybe, concluding, or at least finding a decent stopping point, at the end of the issue. Especially since this issue is the conclusion of an arc.

Okay, my rant's over. I'm sure that there's somebody ready to disagree with every point. Do your worst. Just don't insult my dog. A guy's gotta have SOME limits.
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
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B
Buffy4ever2k10
I hate predictable cliffhangers. :( Damn i need to read that issue.
S
Spiciu
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I agree this type of cliffhanger has been used allot since the first comic, a character showing up on the last page, I think he should have tried to actually suprise us. I'm all for cliffhangers, I know they are to bring people back after the 3 month wait, but sometimes the same cliffhanger on repeat can actually be a bad thing.

I'm looking forward to the Spike and Buffy meat to what she's gonna say about him being alive.


Now having had Angels character ripper apart by so many people since the Twilight reveal, I can only assume people will be saying how awful it is that Spike seems to think he knows how to resolve this Twilight thing and is only showing up now?
 
He has changed more and suffered more for Buffy than Angel ever has or possibly could (okay, that's my opinion. Feel welcome to form your own as you see fit)

I understand thats your opinion...

BUT

years and years in hell > weeks in a basement
 
C
citiegal17
Actually Spike was in hell, thanks to the W&H amulet.
I've said before, I wanted Buffy to have her reunion with Angel. I wanted them to have their time, alone, to simply be together. Well, they got that, and in spades. Now, I want Joss to allow Spike the same courtesy, if for no other reason, simply because he has earned it. He has changed more and suffered more for Buffy than Angel ever has or possibly could (okay, that's my opinion. Feel welcome to form your own as you see fit)

I don't see that as something that you can actually "Earn"...
 
white avenger
white avenger
I do, and I don't think that I'm the only one here who does. But I would still think so, even if I were the only one. So shoot me.
I don't see that as something that you can actually "Earn"...

Totally agree. Buffy isn't some prize that the best vampire gets.

I've said before, I wanted Buffy to have her reunion with Angel. I wanted them to have their time, alone, to simply be together. Well, they got that, and in spades. Now, I want Joss to allow Spike the same courtesy, if for no other reason, simply because he has earned it. He has changed more and suffered more for Buffy than Angel ever has or possibly could (okay, that's my opinion. Feel welcome to form your own as you see fit)

To me this sounds like Buffy owes Spike sex because he has been a good little vampire and loyal to her?

There is no earning or deserving of love. It's not some sort of transaction. If Buffy owes Spike anything it is her friendship. I don't even really have words for this...
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
Completely agreed :)
C
citiegal17
[No message]
white avenger
white avenger
Sex has nothing to do with what I'm speaking about. I think that Joss AND Buffy owe Spike the courtesy of some sort of private reunion, simply because they wereFRIENDS in Season 7, as you yourself pointed out
I understand thats your opinion...

BUT

years and years in hell > weeks in a basement


Yeah, but Spike endured torture protecting Buffy and her family from Glory and because the First Evil was using him against Buffy and her friends. Angel suffered a hundred years in hell because he, or his evil alter ego, Angelus, had tried to unleash hell on earth. Besides which, Angel made Buffy send him to hell. He signaled her with his eyes.
 
Kean
Kean
With all due respect, that is not made clear by what you wrote but I see what you mean now
citiegal17 disagrees: Actually Spike was in hell, thanks to the W&H amulet.

I don't think so, it's been a while since I watched S5 of AtS but wasn't the amulet from Lindsey & wasn't Spike just trapped in it? I thought he only started getting pulled into hell after he was released from the amulet. I know this is a tad off topic & I apologise, I post this only so I can be corrected if I'm wrong.
 
Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
I'm pretty sure that you're correct :)
F
Frketson
Yep thats how i remember it aswell
I don't think so, it's been a while since I watched S5 of AtS but wasn't the amulet from Lindsey & wasn't Spike just trapped in it? I thought he only started getting pulled into hell after he was released from the amulet. I know this is a tad off topic & I apologise, I post this only so I can be corrected if I'm wrong.

No, Spike actually talks about it, and its been a while since I've seen it, but from memory I remeber him talking about it, he ended up at W&H before it was turned to hell, I can say I may be wrong about where the amulet came from maybe, but this I definitely pretty much, and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but this part no, when he came out of the amulet he wasn't pulled hell, he was pulled into W&H.
 
F
Frketson
wrong, watch the episode again.
Quote:
I've said before, I wanted Buffy to have her reunion with Angel. I wanted them to have their time, alone, to simply be together. Well, they got that, and in spades. Now, I want Joss to allow Spike the same courtesy, if for no other reason, simply because he has earned it. He has changed more and suffered more for Buffy than Angel ever has or possibly could (okay, that's my opinion. Feel welcome to form your own as you see fit)

To me this sounds like Buffy owes Spike sex because he has been a good little vampire and loyal to her?

There is no earning or deserving of love. It's not some sort of transaction. If Buffy owes Spike anything it is her friendship. I don't even really have words for this...

I don't think that WA meant that Spike 'earned' or was 'owed' sex with Buffy for being a good little loyal puppydog. I think he meant that Buffy and Spike and the relationship they developed over the course of the series warrents a conversation. Alone. and that he hopes they get this opportunity. I do too.
 
B
Buffy4ever2k10
I hope so too. 1 day left :(
white avenger
white avenger
That's exactly right. As so many people have been so quick to point out here, there are more aspects to love than just sex. It's the Bangels' contention that Buffy and Spike were just friends, now they seem to object to even a FRIENDLY reunion.
Nope, just trapped. The hell stuff was Pavayne. It's pretty clear when he comes back, it's straight after he died. I can't believe I have to wait to three months to see Buffy, Angel and Spike converse, and because it's Joss' arc, it'll be spot on and brilliant...I don't wanna wait three months 🙁
 
To me this sounds like Buffy owes Spike sex because he has been a good little vampire and loyal to her?

There is no earning or deserving of love. It's not some sort of transaction. If Buffy owes Spike anything it is her friendship. I don't even really have words for this...

You may believe that there is no way to earn or make oneself worthy of someone else's love, and that's entirely your right to do so, but I believe that even the most rabid anti Spuffy would have to concede to the fact that Spike has most certainly earned Buffy's respect, and I certainly believe that they both deserve some private time together simply to catch up on what they have been doing since Spike sacrificed his life, or unlife and immortality, for Buffy and her cause. I also believe that he deserves the right to explain why he never tried to find or get in touch with her after he came back.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I completely agree - Spike does deserve the right to tell her why, and Buffy deserves to know.
Nope, just trapped. The hell stuff was Pavayne. It's pretty clear when he comes back, it's straight after he died. I can't believe I have to wait to three months to see Buffy, Angel and Spike converse, and because it's Joss' arc, it'll be spot on and brilliant...I don't wanna wait three months 🙁

Exactly, when he first gets revived, it cuts directly from when he dies to the next moment where hes at W&H, theres no mention that he was in hell at all, sounds like the only thing he remembered was dying. And then he got revived.

SPIKE
Can't a man die in peace without some high almighty deciding it's not his time. Let's have a little more fun with him, eh? You think that saving the sodding world would be enough to earn me a rest. You'd think"”

And thats the end of that chapter. *swishes scarf*
 
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