Please don´t tell me you believe in that soulmates and love at first sight crap? Why have people such a hard time to get that Buffy loves Spike too? It´s not a f*cking friendship. It´s just love. She gave him her body,soul and heart at the end of season 7. He became her champion and he earned her love more than anything of the world.
Listen friend, as obvious as their love seemed to us, that is just not the case with some fans. You have to respect that.
Kean has the right to her opinion.
There is no such thing as destined love,love at first sight or soulmates with Buffy and Spike. Their love is real and of course he earned her love and trust. Why not?
Be careful not to transpose your beliefs of RL onto fiction. There
is such thing as love at first sight - in fiction. In his universe. Angel said he loved her form the moment he saw her.
And please - let's not make this into another Who's Better- Angel or Spike? discussion. That's been discussed to death. We all have our preferences - Spike or Angel, take your pick. It's all valid.
The kiss between Buffy and Angel after Caleb died pissed me off. It was so unnecessary but of course Joss had to do something for the Bangel shippers but for me it just looked like fanservice. Nothing else. I hated the cookie analogy too.
I agree, but this is for another thread, my friend.
Min, I second that! I'm not Illyria's biggest fan, but I would
LOVE to see the look on Buffy's face when she's introduced to her.
Yet, I'm more interested in Buffy knowing about Conner and Cordy, personally:
Buffy: Who's that?
Angel: My, uh...son?
Buffy: (looks confused) Oh...with who?
Angel: Uh, Darla.
Buffy: Huh?
Spike: It's a long story. Hello, love. Long time no see.
My initial reaction to this issue was actually very good. Surprisingly enough, I'm the happiest I've been with Season 8 in a long time. Shocked, are you? Me, too. I'm so sick of being angry. I want to enjoy my Buffyverse again. So, I've decided to roll with the punches, as they say. Wait it out. I'm excited for Joss' arc. Granted, there still are some major issues to figure out - as
Andrew said, Buffy needs to atone for what she did last issue...and Angel, where do I even
start?
Where should I start with? How much I loved Buffy in this issue, or how much I hated Angel? Nobody is talking about what Angel said in this issue, and I'm curious why.
For me, Buffy
came back in this issue.
This is the Buffy we all know; forthright, brave, strong, and defiant.
Not love's bitch. She was given the opportunity to live forever happy with Angel - but this time, it was
her to leave him to help humanity - not the other way around. I was literally giddy reading this issue.
I have no idea how to organize my thoughts, so I think I'll do it page-by page;
* The natural cautious cynic in Buffy shows itself in the conversation with Angel regarding the orcs. Like last issue, Angel is attempting to manipulate her, but she's not having it. Not this time.
I wanna know why Angel dressed like a fetish bad guy and become a killer!
Good question, Xander. Way to say it like it is.
* Giles seems completely convinced there is no hope for the universe - what now?
* I'm confused about Warren's concern for Andrew - where is this coming from? Has be done a complete turn-around? Meltzer said in the Buffyfest Q&A that him and Warren are genuine friends - do you guys agree? Somehow I doubt that Warren's concern is genuine. It seems contrived. After all, would
anyone else care if Andrew died? Maybe that's supposed to be the joke, like how Twilight couldn't remember Andrew's name.
* Buffy's doubt - her cynicism - is what keeps her and her friends
alive. By trying to convince her that she shouldn't doubt where they are and how they got there, Angel's crazy. What does he except? That she'll just accept it and they can live happily ever after?
Angel: Paradise is ours to write.
Buffy: But all I wanna write is the part where I see my friends.
This is the Buffy we know. I could hear her in my head saying these lines. Unlike Angel, who's more than willing to allow humanity to perish so he can selfishly live in paradise with the one he loves - Buffy can't do that. Buffy is defined by her friends. Her
family, as she says. Angel has no family apparently, and answers to no one anymore. What I don't get is why Angel is acting completely opposite as he's ever acted. This is a man who's
never given up on humanity, and has always rejected "destiny" and all that - why the turn-around? What
happened to him?
The thing that shocked me the most in this issue was this line:
They can handle this, Buffy.
He's wrong. How could he possibly know that? He's trying to hide it under the rug, distract Buffy, use her love and devotion for him to make her choose! Can you spell "manipulation"? It's
wrong. Angel is
wrong. I don't even know who he is anymore. His character is lost to me. I want him back. *sigh*
This exchange here, is I feel, illustrates the complete difference between these two characters:
Buffy: You're just saying that because you can live without knowing the outcome. I can't.
Angel: The outcome is beyond us. The only absolute is that it will end.
See, Buffy would feel guilty if she allowed her friends to die on Earth so she could spend forever selfishly with Angel. Angel, on the other hand, has no guilt, has given up, and is completely defeated. If we are to believe he is telling the truth that he "didn't think it would be" that bad, then what could have possibly happened to cause this change of heart in him? I find it hard to believe that Angel can't understand where Buffy is coming from. That she can't let her friends die, knowing she could have done something to try to save them, even if she goes down fighting. Angel is a vampire, sure, but he has a
soul still (Melter confirmed this). How can he
not understand? He's either playing dumb or he has completely lost his humanity.
Buffy jumped into the portal because she couldn't see her sister die. Surely Angel knows this, she must have told him. Her decision then had nothing to do with "logic" - it was about
love - something Angel claims he feels for Buffy, but can't seem to understand that feeling in her towards her friends.
Thoughts?
Best line, EVER:
That's what I need to fight for. Not happiness. Not humanity. Them. Those people.
This is it. This is the whole thing. Buffy fights for her friends. They're her life. Angel fights for no one but himself anymore. That is why he was nothing at stake and why he can't understand her anymore. These two characters love each other sure, but their ideologies are different. I guess we'll have to see how it works out.
And I have to say;
way to go Buffy! The strength she displays in this issue is such a testament to her character. To be given the chance for forever happiness with Angel - all she's ever wanted - she gives it up, for her friends. Our little Buffy. Valiant and brave and steadfast in her beliefs until the end. Doesn't Angel get it? Buffy can't "leave behind the lower plane" - that is what she was Chosen to protect. Asking her to ascend with him into this higher plane is asking her to
give up who she is as a Slayer and protector of humanity.
I also have to say how much I admire Xander's belief that Buffy will come. He knows she'd never leave them.
I never do what I'm meant for.
F#*% Evolution.
*gets giddy again*
Screw destiny, screw fate! Buffy makes her own fate, and Angel is destiny's bitch and pawn. How else are we to interpret this issue and Angels' actions in it? The look on Angel's face when he sees that Buffy is going to leave him to
do the right thing is perhaps his most "human" moment this season.
Okay. Let's go.
Oh, theroy:
It's Buffy's resolve, you see, her passion, that brings Angel
back to the light. To the good fight. I think this is what real love should be; when they make each other better people, and don't bring each other down. Angel tried to convince Buffy to go against what she believed. It didn't work. In the beginning, it was her who inspired him to get his life together and fight for humanity. Maybe Buffy has brought him back to who he was formally, by inspiring him a second time to fight.
Don't get me wrong - Angel is
not redeemed in my eyes. I still do not understand why he did this, why he would try to manipulate Buffy, and why he's changed so drastically
BUT
I
loved seeing them fighting side-by-side again, even it it's in this context. Buffy deserves to be with someone who can do this with her; fight her fight and support her. If she has chosen Angel, so be it. I'm just waiting for the Aftermath of that choice.
Spike's back! Spike's back! Whee!
Question: Did Willow
know in advance about Spike's arrival? The look on her face seems to say suggest that. Also, the looks on everyone's faces are
classic when they see Spike step out of the ship, lol. Willow's and Angel the only one who
don'tlook surprised.
I'm really happy with the way Jeanty drew Spike. It looks good. The likeness is acceptable.
😉
And yes, in agreement with
white avenger - a predictable cliff-hanger sucks. And, interesting to see Spike wearing black nail polish again. I haven't seen him wear that since Season 5.
SO much needs to happen! Buffy needs to be told that Cordy is dead. Buffy needs to be told about Conner. Spike and Angel need to have a "chat." Buffy and Spike need to have a talk. Why is Spike there? What is going on? How does Spike know who Twilight is? WTF is up with the spaceship? How can Joss do all this?! There are still so many loose ends to tie together.
I need to go work on my midterm.
