Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.37 "Last Gleaming Part 2" - Released 10/7/10 (Dark Horse)

[Kean]

So the Master's return won't be explained and Buffy is boinking Spike after boinking Angel? Ok, I'm done with season 8.

No, no, no. Buffy didn't actually sleep with Spike. She had a brief fantasy about sleeping with him but it is suggested that is an after affect of the Twilight glow she and Angel experienced.

As for The Master, it appears he was enlisted by Twilight over 800 years ago but he wasn't quite aware of it.

 

[white avenger]

The tattoo on Angel's back is actually a winged lion taken from The Book of Kells.

Then I retract what I said about Griffins. I was actually sorta wondering why a good ol' Irish boy would have a creature from Greek mythology tattooed on his shoulder anyhow. On the other hand, the winged lion in your illustration of Angel's tattoo (and thanks for finding a good picture of it. I couldn't find one) has a head that looks anything but lion-like to me. I guess they didn't have "Animal Planet" back when they were writing The Book of Kells.

Anyhow, the more that I see of this last arc, the harder that it becomes for me to envision any possible way that Angel can walk away from everything that he has done this season, whether he has been totally or partially under the influence of some higher power or just seduced over to what he THINKS is sunshine and roses for him and Buffy, but is really simply the latest installment of the Armageddon Chronicles.

The most amazing thing for me about this whole thing is that, supposedly, Joss is going to straighten this mess out by the end of Issue 39.

 

[Kean]

Then I retract what I said about Griffins. I was actually sorta wondering why a good ol' Irish boy would have a creature from Greek mythology tattooed on his shoulder anyhow. On the other hand, the winged lion in your illustration of Angel's tattoo (and thanks for finding a good picture of it. I couldn't find one) has a head that looks anything but lion-like to me. I guess they didn't have "Animal Planet" back when they were writing The Book of Kells.

You'd be surprised how few lions were wondering around 9th century Ireland. 😉

It might look a bit clearer if view in comparison to what the eagle looked like in The Book of Kells.

http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/o/A/4evangelists.jpg

The top right image is of the winged lion on its hind legs and its wings expanded. The image directly below that is the eagle.

 

[white avenger]

You'd be surprised how few lions were wondering around 9th century Ireland. 😉

It might look a bit clearer if view in comparison to what the eagle looked like in The Book of Kells.

http://0.tqn.com/d/historymedren/1/0/o/A/4evangelists.jpg

The top right image is of the winged lion on its hind legs and its wings expanded. The image directly below that is the eagle.

Well, as I said, those guys never saw "Animal Planet." (And that eagle looks like a South Georgia buzzard)

Speaking of animals, I'm still waiting with bated breath to see just how Joss pulls this rabbit out of the hat, though. I'm still thinking that just about the only real solution would be Angel somehow sacrificing himself to close off all of the dimensional portals, locking himself in there with all of the bad things, the General, Amy, and Warren included, thus atoning in some small measure for all of the evil that he was party to. I just don't know how that's going to allow him to have his own title in Season 9.

Just two more episodes to go...

 

[VisionGirl]

Shouldn't Angel's powers fade the closer he gets to the seed? That's what happened to Buffy. And WA, I can totally see some of season 9 being about Angel trying to get out of some other trapped dimension. And Buffy & the gang's attempts to get him out.

 

[Kean]

Shouldn't Angel's powers fade the closer he gets to the seed? That's what happened to Buffy. And WA, I can totally see some of season 9 being about Angel trying to get out of some other trapped dimension. And Buffy & the gang's attempts to get him out.

Well, he hasn't been in the cavern with The Seed yet. When he bursts in and hits Buffy, she has left the cavern. The fact that he could punch her so hard is to emphasize how Twilight taking him over has made him even stronger.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Angel somehow sacrificing himself to close off all of the dimensional portals, locking himself in there with all of the bad things, the General, Amy, and Warren included, thus atoning in some small measure for all of the evil

But thats kinda what Fray said happened with 'that last slayer' so I would expect it to be buffy before angel

 

[Buffy Summers]

This issue was odd. Just odd.

 

[Stake fodder]

It's good to see Spike finally in this season, but he seems an odd choice for exposition. Usually, when he's "figured something out," as he often says, he's actually way off track. But he told it in his style, and without spilling the Madeira. Then one-upped Giles wonders how he didn't see it - indeed, the universe has shifted!

I probably am the only one who had no desire to see either Bangel or Spuffy in the comics, but if you're going to have it, don't have Buffy bouncing back and forth like a tennis ball, to quote Spike! Have her pick one or the other, go boy-boy-girl threesome (without Charlize Theron), or just drop it already. Showing her fantasizing about Spike right after she's been with Angel is just ridiculous, afterglow or not, and too, well, nakedly pandering to both shipper fandoms, so no one feels left out. And all this when she was after Xander just a little while ago. It makes Buffy seem like a libertine, which isn't fair to the character.

Spike's gleeful "Look at that!" at the sight of the crater formerly known as Sunnydale was fun. It's clearly better even than destroying Big Ben. (And I think I just caught onto this as symbolism for Spike ruining Angel's moment?)

The new dimension referring to Buffy and Angel as parents seems off. Wouldn't they be its gods, more like?

 

[TriBel]

nakedly pandering to both shipper fandoms,

Probably 🙄

Showing her fantasizing about Spike right after she's been with Angel is just ridiculous

Why? I don't think fantasy abides by the same rules as real life. I'm sure there are plenty of women (and men) out there who fantasize about another man (or women) during sex let alone waiting until after.😏 She's just being polite.😄

And all this when she was after Xander just a little while ago. It makes Buffy seem like a libertine, which isn't fair to the character.

Alternatively...no single person can satisfy all our desires/needs/wants (conscious or unconscious)...which seems realistic to me (the concept of desire is complicated. It's usually because desire takes the wrong target).

The new dimension referring to Buffy and Angel as parents seems off. Wouldn't they be its gods, more like?

The church does it all the time. Holy Father/Holy Mother..."Bless me father because I have sinned"...etc. etc. AtS draws parallels between Angelus (Dru's daddy) and a priest. It's not coincidence that the church in Beneath You (a reference to the unconscious?) highlights an icon of the Madonna and Child. I think they're drawing on writers like Jung, Freud, Joseph Campbell and James Fraser who also conflate parents/Gods...it's a Totem and Taboo kinda thing. It's implicit in Restless and the reference to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse now. Don't some kids think of their parents as "God-like" and have a real awakening when they realise they aren't?

Spike's gleeful "Look at that!" at the sight of the crater formerly known as Sunnydale was fun. It's clearly better even than destroying Big Ben. (And I think I just caught onto this as symbolism for Spike ruining Angel's moment?)

Symbolism of an erect Big Ben? Lucifer (in Lucifer) uses a similar metaphor "Big Ben strikes Ten". Lucifer's also interesting because a) it acknowledges its debt to BtVS and b) Lucifer's dad is actually God. Well...it was interesting until I realised I didn't like feet.

Can I just say I'm enjoying your reading of the comics? 🙂 Saves me having to do it again and I think you raise some interesting points.

 

[Stake fodder]

Why? I don't think fantasy abides by the same rules as real life. I'm sure there are plenty of women (and men) out there who fantasize about another man (or women) during sex let alone waiting until after.😏 She's just being polite.😄

Well, OK, but there's a reason we don't admit it publicly!😄 (I mean the comics, not you!)

The church does it all the time. Holy Father/Holy Mother..."Bless me father because I have sinned"...etc. etc. AtS draws parallels between Angelus (Dru's daddy) and a priest. It's not coincidence that the church in Beneath You (a reference to the unconscious?) highlights an icon of the Madonna and Child. I think they're drawing on writers like Jung, Freud, Joseph Campbell and James Fraser who also conflate parents/Gods...it's a Totem and Taboo kinda thing. It's implicit in Restless and the reference to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse now. Don't some kids think of their parents as "God-like" and have a real awakening when they realise they aren't?

Another good point, which didn't occur to me. Though I don't think anyone typically refers to Mary, say, as the "Mummy" of the church. 😀 It's the Mummy that threw me off.

Can I just say I'm enjoying your reading of the comics? 🙂 Saves me having to do it again and I think you raise some interesting points.

Thanks! I read through them so fast that reading and writing comments helps me fix them in my mind. Though it tends to take longer for me to compose a comment than it does to read a chapter/issue!