Episode Discussion Discussion of 8.37 "Last Gleaming Part 2" - Released 10/7/10 (Dark Horse)

[Kean]

Was it ever firmly established that Angel's family was Catholic?

It is never said explicitly, no. To be honest there are far too many historical inaccuracies concerning Liam's background to really say one way or another. Personally, I think we are supposed to think of him as having been Catholic- the part of Ireland that he is from is still, to this day, one the most devoutly Catholic, but especially in Liam's time, his obsession with convents, nuns and churches, his disdain for the English in Spin the Bottle (although this was certainly not an opinion reserved by Catholics alone), the fact that he was from a merchant family and not part of the landed Ascendancy class, and now the confirmation that he did not receive a higher education.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

It is never said explicitly, no. To be honest there are far too many historical inaccuracies concerning Liam's background to really say one way or another. Personally, I think we are supposed to think of him as having been Catholic- the part of Ireland that he is from is still, to this day, one the most devoutly Catholic, but especially in Liam's time, his obsession with convents, nuns and churches, his disdain for the English in Spin the Bottle (although this was certainly not an opinion reserved by Catholics alone), the fact that he was from a merchant family and not part of the landed Ascendancy class, and now the confirmation that he did not receive a higher education.

I actually gave some thought to this while I was re-watching the series. Some of the clues I noticed:

* While Angel's family weren't wealthy, they didn't live in poverty either. They had a comfortable home and a servant. The Penal Laws would have made that kind of lifestyle difficult, but perhaps not impossible, for an openly Catholic merchant.

* The clergyman who officiates at Angel's burial (or was it his father's?) looks to be dressed like an Anglican vicar rather than a Catholic priest of that time... but I'm not an expert on ecclesiastical costumes of 18th century Ireland (and I'm not sure the writer or director would have given it that much thought).

* Angel's father makes the sign of the cross when Angel comes to kill him... though High Church Anglicans might have done that as well.

* I'm not sure if the Claddagh is exclusively a Catholic thing, but I think Protestants of that era rejected those sorts of symbols.

* Liam didn't like English people... but in those days, many Irish Protestants didn't like English people either.

So, it's quite hard to tell. But the Buffy and Angel writers often played quite fast and loose with history. We see Darla living in a fancy two-story house with glass windows in Virginia in 1609... only two years after the colony was founded, way too early for such luxuries, especially considering that the colonists were trapped in their fort at that time due to Indian attacks. And it would be waaaay too early for a Catholic priest in full vestments (the Master in disguise) to be wandering around there unchallenged.

 

[VisionGirl]

Just read something interesting on http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/10/interview-with-scott-allie-editor-a-now-co-writer-of-buffy:

Chris Greenland: Are we heading towards a magic-less Buffyverse? (Very strongly hinted at in the Fray mini-series and in this season’s “Time Of Your Life” arc.) Is this one apocalypse our characters can’t avoid?

Scott Allie: The world is not gonna end, but some big stuff is gonna happen, some things are going to change, and it will set us up for a very different approach to Season 9 than we had to Season 8. Our heroes can always avert apocalypse, but their choices are narrowing

(Sorry, that had nothing to do with the issue of Liam/Angel's Catholic identity)

Does anybody read the letters to the editor section in the back of the issue? I'm annoyed with the 2-page rant to/about Scott Allie. I understand that Allie's not necessarily a favorite among the fans, and Spuffies in particular (especially in light of some comments he made), but really? They needed to devote 2 pages to that?

 

[Spikefan31]

So I'm thinking Willow might be the betrayer...

 

[AndrewCrossett]

So I'm thinking Willow might be the betrayer...

That's certainly the idea I get from her conversation with Aluwyn. Buffy will want to destroy the Seed. Then she and the other Slayers will only have to fight the vampires and demons who are already here. No more Apocalypses to deal with, no more Prophecies to worry about. After thousands of years, the Slayer mission will be completed.

But Willow will not want to lose access to magic (for herself or the other witches), and will try to stop her.

Of course, Aluwyn has admitted that she always lies...

 

[Kean]

* While Angel's family weren't wealthy, they didn't live in poverty either. They had a comfortable home and a servant. The Penal Laws would have made that kind of lifestyle difficult, but perhaps not impossible, for an openly Catholic merchant.

Honestly, to have a Catholic merchant doing that well in Galway at the time is really pushing it. It's not exactly in the realm of impossibility but it isn't far off.

* The clergyman who officiates at Angel's burial (or was it his father's?) looks to be dressed like an Anglican vicar rather than a Catholic priest of that time... but I'm not an expert on ecclesiastical costumes of 18th century Ireland (and I'm not sure the writer or director would have given it that much thought).

I've tried to research this but I haven't been too successful. Angel's father blessing himself suggests Catholic to me. However, if that were the case I would have expected the mass to have been said in Latin. But like you said, I feel the creative team really weren't paying much attention to those sorts of things.

If we get really into it Angel and all his family should have been speaking Irish. Again, Galway and its surrounding regions, remains the stronghold of the Irish language to this day.

* I'm not sure if the Claddagh is exclusively a Catholic thing, but I think Protestants of that era rejected those sorts of symbols

.

I agree, it certainly would not have been viewed as a more peasant (which was synonymous with Irish) custom.

* Liam didn't like English people... but in those days, many Irish Protestants didn't like English people either.

Very true. Jonathon Swift, the Dean of St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin (Protestant) positively detested the English for their treatment of Ireland. (They weren't very nice to him either...banishing him to Dublin lol)

Even little things like his name, Liam, that is an Irish name. A little too Irish to be Protestant (at the time). Then there is his choice of name for his son, Connor. Another wholly Irish name. Names mostly associated with Irish Catholics, rather than Irish Protestants.

 

[citiegal17]

So I'm thinking Willow might be the betrayer...

No, Willow is right about protecting the seed, if the seed isn't protected we get Fray future which is a bad thing, we learned about this in TOYL, thats why Buffy went to future to prevent this future from happening. Though, I don't trust the thing calling Angel 'Father', sounds like it has badness written all over it. I hardly believe that Buffy's real mission is to destroy her own heritage, and to leave future slayers like Fray in a bad postion without connections to the past besides some old books, and the lack of the slayer dreams. This is a scene between Willow and Giles in Lessons, emphasis on the importance of energy and the Earth.


Willow: Is there anything you don't know everything about?
Giles: Synchronized swimming. Complete mystery to me. Yes, Paraguayan. Where does it come from?
Willow: Paraguay.
Giles: You brought it through the earth?
Willow: It's all connected. The root system, the molecules, the energy. Everything's connected.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Even little things like his name, Liam, that is an Irish name. A little too Irish to be Protestant (at the time). Then there is his choice of name for his son, Connor. Another wholly Irish name. Names mostly associated with Irish Catholics, rather than Irish Protestants.

Liam is short for William, right? Originally a Norman name, though the Normans were as Catholic as the Celts.

My mother's family name is O'Connor (or Connors, as it was later changed to), and I have a nephew named Connor. (Whose life I hope goes a whole lot easier than Connor Angel's).

 

[Kean]

Liam is short for William, right? Originally a Norman name, though the Normans were as Catholic as the Celts.

My mother's family name is O'Connor (or Connors, as it was later changed to), and I have a nephew named Connor. (Whose life I hope goes a whole lot easier than Connor Angel's).

Well it isn't short for William but rather the Irish version of the name. Actually the Celts weren't Catholic at all, they were pagan. Although I think you are talking about the old saying that the Norman's became more Irish than the Irish themselves?

I know dozens of people either with first and last name Connor and none seem to have suffered the wretched fate of Angel's son, so I'd say your nephew is safe 😉 🙂

Although, there is Sinéad O'Connor....but, the less said the better. lol

Someone asked earlier who the Queen was. I'm fairly certain we are to take Buffy as being the Queen. There have been several references alluding to this all season- the slayers calling her "Ma'am" for instance.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Well it isn't short for William but rather the Irish version of the name. Actually the Celts weren't Catholic at all, they were pagan. Although I think you are talking about the old saying that the Norman's became more Irish than the Irish themselves?

I meant the Celts as in the native Irish, who were Christian by the time the Normans arrived.

Someone asked earlier who the Queen was. I'm fairly certain we are to take Buffy as being the Queen. There have been several references alluding to this all season- the slayers calling her "Ma'am" for instance.

If Buffy is the Queen who is "dead," I wonder who the new Queen who's supposed to "live long" is?

I'm thinking this saying is referring to the death of the old universe (ours) and its replacement by the new one (Buffy and Angel's).

To be ruled over by the King of the Island of Misfit Toys.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Here are my thoughts on #37.

The disposition becomes more and more complicated. Looks like The Master is Buffy's ally now: they both want to protect the Seed, although Buffy's priority is to protect the Earth. Looks like The Master thinks that Buffy and Spike came to remove the Seed and to give it to Miss Kitty Twilight. Looks like Buffy doesn't know about the consequences of the Seed's destruction. Willow didn't tell her (lie by omission). Hard to say if Spike knows - he could know and he could have told Buffy when she was daydreaming about sex with him. Willow's goal is to protect The Seed at any cost. And, most likely, Twangel has got an order to bring it to Miss Kitty Twilight.

The face-off will be quite intense, and I guess that Angel's mission puts him against the rest of the team. We know that after the betrayal the Seed will look like it has hatched, which goes well with current "birthing a Universe" twist. It's grotesque, but possible. If Buffy and Angel have procreated a universe, the Seed with the Master's help could procreate something to fight against it. Or maybe the partial damage of the Seed we saw on the "betrayal" flashforward panel in #10 is supposed to mean it's destroyed.

I wonder if Miss Kitty Twilight is the final Big Bad in the long file of season 8 Big Bads or it's a manifestation of somebody (something) else? If Buffy's dreams are supposed to be clues, then the real Big Bad must be the gigantic monster from her very first dream, in #2. But I admit, the plot leaves me utterly confused. I don't understard how The Master can be alive and why Buffy isn't surprised about it. I can't wrap my mind around the idea of not-yet-born Twilight manifesting itself through people and animals. Moreover, I'm not sure that an alternate universe as a Big Bad is a good idea. Non-personified evil in a visual medium is usually boring and unconvincing.

But I doubt that anybody in the audience really cares much about all those exotic McGuffins, though. The only question people debate is the identity of the traitor. And, frankly, I'm mostly interested in the identity of the traitor, too. So far, I think it's Angel.

If there is a fight, the only person who can match Buffy in strength is Angel. Of course, Willow could turn him into a frog for a moment, but I think the frog panel was inserted only for laughs.

Plot-wise, no-one is safe -- but, most likely Joss will go for the maximum pain. "The closest, the most unexpected". That's how Buffy sees Angel currently: her heart belongs to him and she wants to spend the rest of her life with him. That's how Angel has been positioned in Buffy's threesome dream: Angel as "the closest".

If the look at the situation from the outside, Jeanty said - and then confirmed - that something terrible will happen to Buffy/Angel relationship. Dark Horse has already announced that Angel will have his own title the next season, so he won't die in season 8. I think it leaves only one option.

Besides, it's Joss.

One of the prevalent mistakes in BtVS fandom is attributing IWRY script to Joss Whedon (I swear, it's not a non-sequitur). But he isn't the writer of IWRY. David Greenwalt and Jeannine Renshaw are - and I think Joss was unhappy that Greenwalt got all the sadistical fun to himself. So in season 8 Joss wrote his own version of IWRY. Again, Angel gets manipulated by dubious higher beings who promise that bad things will happen to Buffy unless Angel hurt her for her own good. Again, Angel believes them and acts accordingly, thinking that he is a noble savior. And again he fails spectacularly. His decision in IWRY didn't prevent Buffy's death in "The Gift". His decision to become Twilight doesn't save the world.

What's even more curious - Twangel arc in season 8 echoes crucial moments in the journeys of the majority of AtS regulars. Angel is corrupted with power and becomes what he hates, like Gunn in season 5; Angel creates a catastrophe by trying to prevent it, like Wesley in season 3; Angel involuntarily becomes a father of an entity that wants to ruin our world and create a new one, as Connor in season 4. So I guess, in a broader sense, it's Joss' take on AtS, uncensored and unlimited.

I wonder if according to this new, Jossian mythology, all Angel's journey was about this moment; that's why PTB (or was it Miss Kitty Twilight?) sent Angel to help Buffy back in 1996; that's why W&H couldn't kill him all along.

And you thought Greenwalt's take on Angel was dark. It's scary to think what Joss could do to Angel if he'd run the show. (I'm not sure I like what he did to Angel. My personal take on Angel is that he is very flawed - and I like him that way. But the panel where he tries to keep Buffy to himself in the Twilight paradize when her sister and her friends are dying on Earth - that panel makes me cringe. Just a week ago me and my fandom friends were rewatching earlier AtS episodes and it felt like mourning the character.)

I have to admit that I have a couple of cognitive dissonances with Miss Kitty Twilight. BtVS consistently depicted felines as a symbol of female power; it's strange that a Big Bad has manifested as a feline. My second gripe is about "birthing" the Bad Universe. Birthing experience as something negative? Evil baby? On a feminist show? It's so bizarre that I wonder if Miss Kitty Twilight is a gigantic hoax and the real Big Bad hasn't appeared yet.

But, most likely, this Big Bad is the final one. The plot is so convoluted that adding another twist would be an overkill. Unless it's Connor who's behind it -- y'know, because he thinks that having a little sister would be fun. (He should have asked Buffy first.)

 

[Tranquillity]

Scott Allie talks #37 with CBR:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=28834

SPOILER WARNING: This article contains major spoilers for "Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8" #37, in stores now.

Though he's gearing up for big screen glory with a certain Avenging superteam, Joss Whedon is nearing the goal line of the comic book project closest to his heart: Dark Horse's canonical "Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 8." After a series of twists and turns that have stretched over the past three years, the series has reached its final arc.

To help prepare fans for the hit series' impending finale, CBR is back with an all-new installment of BEHIND BUFFY SEASON 8 - a monthly column featuring interviews with the creators and staff behind the creation of Buffy's last two stories highlighting the questions being answered, the characters thrown into crisis, and the future of the entire Buffy franchise. This week, "Buffy" editor extraordinaire (and final arc co-writer with Whedon) Scott Allie stops by to dig into issue #37 – part two of the "Last Gleaming" arc – from the Scooby gang's return to the Hellmouth that was their hometown of Sunnydale, the meaning of magic in the Buffy universe, the roles both Spike and the Master play and how the final battle will play out in the next two months!

CBR News: Right out the gate in this story, we get a sort of "Creation Myth" for the Buffyverse. How important is the setup of those big, overarching ideas for this story?

Scott Allie: It is Creation Myth. We're kind of retconning the whole universe a little bit, but I think it's really just a level of information that Joss never got into before about the origins of vampires and of this world. We're placing significance on Sunnydale in this particular way, and it definitely changes the backs story cosmically.

To help refresh my own memory, how did the original explanation of the Hellmouth in Sunnydale go, and are these two ideas really contradictory?

No, they're not contradictory at all, and they're not mutually exclusive nor are they necessarily linked. There's a number of Hellmouths around the world, and they're gateways to Hell or to other dimensions, depending on how you look at it. There are a couple different ones, and yet the Sunnydale one seems to be the focus of all Apocalyptic energy in the world. So the Seed is basically the reason why the Sunnydale Hellmouth is as important as it is. You don't just have this potentially really dangerous gateway to another world. You also have the source of all magic in the world and embodiment of the soul of the planet in this one little location – the removal of which would be more catastrophic than simply opening the Hellmouth.

Last week, we spoke about Buffy, Angel and Spike in terms of these characters no longer being in a triangle since there should be no doubt the Buffy/Angel connection is the strong, true love in the universe. Should Buffy's almost embarrassingly ill-timed fantasizing about Spike be seen as a kind of residual effect from the cosmic sex she had with Angel?

Well, it just kind of happens when you're her. I think that's part of it. Buffy has these strong feelings about a couple of different people. If you're talking about her mind getting carried away with her after seeing Spike again after not seeing him for so long, I don't know that you necessarily have to attribute that to the residual effects of Twilight. This is just her, and following what goes on in her head is a little easier to do in the comic than in the TV show. And this is her genuine lustful relationship and feelings for him.

The line that really stands out here is when she tells him "you're my dark place." In a way, Spike has always played that bad boy role in the triangle. What do you think he still offers the series in that position?

Different people certainly have different ideas about the relationship between Buffy and Spike, but to me this thing about him being her dark place feels very consistent. That seems to be a very unchanging aspect of their relationship. She could share things with him that she couldn't share with anybody else in part because she knew she wouldn't be judged. And it's not just that he's "the bad boy." There's a real level of understanding between the two of them.

On the other side of the relationship stuff, we've got the interaction between Xander and Dawn. As you guys are breaking out the story, how important has it been to keep turning back and giving the supporting cast their own place in the finale?

You know, it's been really difficult. I was talking to a couple of people about this earlier today. I saw the movie "The Town" over last weekend – great movie. And they made some really interesting choices about taking characters that were right there in the middle of the action and making them practically invisible. In there, you've got these four bank robbers, and only two of them get fleshed out as real characters at all. You've got two guys who are there for ever job, and you never get a sense of who they are as people. And that's the autonomy of storytelling you need sometimes – to let your supporting cast drop out into the background. But with "Buffy" and a number of Joss' things, you have this ensemble with quite a number of characters, all of whom have very distinct personalities and very distinct plots that need to be served pretty well over the course of the series. It's totally a challenge.

This one page right here with the two of them was necessary for major plot points later on, but it's a challenge to give all the notable characters in the book that space. It's funny when fans write in about how they wish that Marcie Ross was there or this character or that, because with all the characters we've got we can't fit anybody more in here. And there are things in "Season 8" with our supporting cast we didn't get to develop as much as we would've liked. And in some ways we're done. In terms of scripts, we've reached the end so we don't get to do more with character A or B who didn't already get it. There are certain threads that didn't get as much room as we would've liked. For instance, we didn't see as much of what Faith and Giles wanted to be up to as we would've liked because we had to keep the story moving and couldn't stop it all for their thing.

Getting this scene with Xander and Dawn was very important. They're totally at the core of this whole story, and we couldn't get to far away from them. What's going on with them contributes to things that'll happen next issue. But it's a real wrestling match trying to get enough room for everybody while keeping it simple enough to move it forward.

The other significant tease on this page is our mustachioed interloper at the end. What significance can we draw from his eavesdropping as we move into the last two issues?

That's the general who's been involved in things since pretty much the very beginning, and we will see more of him. His overhearing this conversation doesn't simply lead to him wanting to plead his love to somebody else in the next issue. [Laughter] He's listening intently. He's definitely paying attention to what Xander's saying.


We get a great bit of Georges tapping into his inner Cthulu in the battle. Did you have an idea that he'd be delivering these kinds of massive creatures from the start, or did you discover his skill for this stuff as you were going?

Discovered it. It's funny because as a fan of the "Buffy" TV show but also as a serious horror and Lovecraft fan – being a fan of the show, I was always a little disappointed with the monsters because there's only so much you can do. You're limited to an actor in a rubber suit generally. So in the comics, I've always wanted to go bigger and do something that would be harder to pull off with just an actor and some limited CG budgets. There's a tendency when you're working on a property to be consistent with the vision of the property. The fact that you've had so many bipedal monsters and demons over the years – it makes sense to stick with that to some degree. But I didn't expect Georges to be quite so good about doing really twisted, weird, demonic stuff. Because I came on as co-writer for the final arc, I really made a point to push that in the script and ask for things like "Georges, I want you with this monster to break away and do some things you've never done before." And he really rose to the occasion every time really, really well. I don't think I expected that from him when we started this book, but his ability to grow with it and create things like Kenny the Thricewise back in issue #25 shows that Georges is just great with designing really cool monsters and stuff that's not typical to a superhero comic book artist.

This sequence also features a lot of Angel throwing himself into fighting back against what's happening. How much of this arc is a redemption arc for him?

It's pure redemption. He feels the need for it, and Buffy and all of them know he has a lot he has to make up for right now. He felt he was serving a purpose by being Twilight, and to whatever degree he was wrong – and he was a little bit wrong, at least – he needs to make up for it by getting out there and helping in the fight now that the fight is as big as it is. Angel's life over the past couple of hundred years has been making up for his sins and the really evil things he's done, and he's back at it. He's back at having to make up for recent sins, and that's really his place in the book – to redeem himself. And Buffy knows he needs to redeem himself, though there are a lot of people close to her who don't think he can redeem himself. Those people are going to have to decide if they can forgive him.

And it's funny. We get a lot of letters from readers that literally complain that or accuse us of "ruining Angel" because of the things he's done. And it's like "Wow!" I don't see it that way, but it's a pretty strong reaction, and I know what they mean. He did some pretty unforgivable things. And he's done them before – before there was a TV show. And he's done them now in "Season 8." Does that make him ruined? Does that make him irredeemable? I don't think so. It means he just has to work that harder.

On page 18, we get Buffy to the rescue, but the thing that really stands out here is...

That last line, right? [Laughter]

Well that, and the other thing is that we get the briefest interaction with her and Willow on the top of the page. Willow's part in this issue teases the idea that there will be a betrayal against Buffy. How aware is Buffy of this broader mystical stuff going on, and how will her understanding of the big picture affect the finale of the arc?

One of the challenges in this final five is nailing the focus down to what needs to be done in the midst of this colossal crisis and conflict. We've risked a lot of repetition with having Willow say, "You've got to protect the seed. Keep everyone away from it." Willow's repeating herself a little bit because, yeah, Buffy is a little unaware. We've got to make sure she's not completely unaware. We've got to make sure she knows a fair amount of what's going on and has a clear agenda in all this. From this point on – from late in #37 and through on to the end, there's going to be a tremendous amount of action, and she needs to stay focused.

I would say Buffy's inability to pay attention leads to her being taken by surprise at the end of #37. But Willow's repeating herself just to make damn sure that Buffy knows what the priority is here. I think Buffy know and Spike knows, and the team in general is on mission in terms of what they need to prevent from happening, and it's just a question of whether they're going to be able to.

On the next page, we get the briefest of those supporting character vignettes that makes the whole book come full circle to an extent thinking of that first arc being "The Long Road Home." To what extent have your discussion with Joss been about bringing things full circle to the original series and the first few seasons?

I'd say that we always knew where things were going to wind up, but over time, the significance of that became increasingly clear. We knew where we were going to go, and we knew the location of where everything was going to end, but the importance of that has just grown and grown. Focusing down to the core characters as we reach the climax, focusing on Sunnydale and the emotional significance of the return to Sunnydale and the emotional significance of bringing this girl back to where she was when she was just a girl – we knew that's where we were going, and we've played it up harder as we've approached the climax.

Page 22 is a great spotlight for Georges to do another major action beat, but the thing I end up asking about the whole scene is "What is the significance of the Master's commentary?" Does he protect the Seed not so much because he loves this world but because he things they have done nothing to deserve another?

"They" as in Buffy and Spike?

Well, I guess he think it's Buffy and Spike who have done this, although I guess we'll find out if his confusion on that has significance, won't we?

Well, mainly we're playing it for laughs that he was expecting Angel and its actually Spike. But I think that when you're looking at big power – at these huge, colossal, supernatural powers – everybody has a different perspective on it. Buffy knows what she knows, and Spike knows what he knows, but they didn't know the Master was down there. And now they know, and he holds different information than they hold. In some ways, he holds more information, though that doesn't necessarily mean that he's right and they're wrong.

One thing I find kind of fun with the supernatural stuff is that it's just like religion. Christians can look at Muslims and go, "Oh, you guys don't get it. You just don't understand God" just like Muslims can look at Christians and go, "What? You guys don't understand God." that's what we see in religion and what I'd assume we'd see with the supernatural stuff too. Everybody thinks they've got all the answers when all they really have is their own perspective. That's kind of what's going on. That's where the Master is speaking from. There are bits of information he holds that are totally true that Buffy and Spike don't have, but that doesn't mean he holds all the answers.

The one question the whole issue begs – like when you read the scene with the bugs piloting the ship where Spike says to Buffy, "That's a story for another time" – is that for all the answers and conclusions we're about to dive into, is there some things Joss is holding back in the pocket for other projects and pieces of this universe?

Yeah, some stuff and some stuff not. One of the joys of this stuff, as it was on the TV show or in "Hellboy" or all these things, is that it's like the old "Star Wars" movies. There was some stuff that they'd make reference to that 30 years later would come up in "Episode 1" but there were other aspects you'd never get more on. Like in "Empire," where Han says to Leia "Oh yeah, when we did this..." you never get the story. There's going to be a certain amount of that in "Season 8." These days, people expect to have every nook and cranny plugged in, and that's not necessarily going to happen.

But the "story for another time" that Spike tells Buffy about, that particularly is a spot where IDW pretty much should have paid us for an ad because that's the story that they're doing with Brian Lynch at IDW. When Spike tells Buffy "it's a story for another time" what he's saying is "You'll get it in the IDW series." That's one of the little things in Joss' pocket, and there are some other of those things that'll show up in "Season 9" or somewhere else. But some of it, you won't. That's the thing I think some Buffy fans can't overcome. Some of it doesn't need to be spelled out. It's not about spelling out every minute of someone's life. Sometimes it's just a good line to throw out there. That's all you get.

As I was going through this issue and making questions for the interview, the one that literally popped into my mind when I saw the last page was "What the f--k is this thing?"

[Laughs] You've got to go back and read Brian K. Vaughan's arc. None of this stuff is stuff we just made up or pulled out of our butts. At the end of this issue, people who have been reading along carefully are going to see that page and go, "Holy shit! We thought you forgot about that!" But we didn't! Don't flip through too fast or you'll miss it. It was a seed that was planted, so to speak, and it's way more important than anybody thought given the amount of space it was given. You have seen that thing before...though you'd think you'd remember. [Laughter]

"Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 8" #37 is on sale now. And tune in next month for more of CBR's BEHIND BUFFY SEASON 8!

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Thanks for posting the interview!

Buffy has these strong feelings about a couple of different people.

So we're back to the post-Chosen status quo.

You also have the source of all magic in the world and embodiment of the soul of the planet in this one little location "“ the removal of which would be more catastrophic than simply opening the Hellmouth.

Interesting twist. I'm not sure I can fully grasp the idea of a sentient universe, but it sounds intriguing.

Angel's life over the past couple of hundred years has been making up for his sins and the really evil things he's done, and he's back at it. He's back at having to make up for recent sins, and that's really his place in the book "“ to redeem himself.

Do they remember that Angel was soulless during those two hundred years?

 

[ElmoHasAGun]

I was re-reading this issue for the millionth time and I noticed that they have all changed clothes. Willow's dress... it's got three little x's over it. Three X's was supposed to mean something from Amy's cage right in part 3 of The Long Way Home, right? And the general was listening in on Xander and Dawn's conversation... maybe Warren and Amy will have a purpose in the next few issue's after all. I tried looking up XXX on the Internet but the only thing I could find was a film called xXx with a guy in it called Xander. It says on the Director's Cut there is a extra called The Final Chapter: The Death of Xander Cage.

Colour me stupid...

I's not like I enjoy grasping at loose straws. November never seemed so far away...

 

[LyteHouse]

The general was listening in on Xander and Dawn's conversation... maybe Warren and Amy will have a purpose in the next few issue's after all.

I smell that the General may have quite a part to play in the final act. Maybe a-la Gollum from The Lord of the Rigns. You know, the least likely becomes the saviour yadda yadda yadda....

 

[nmcil12]

Yes, its very poetic but I do have some hope Joss will have the guts to tell it like it is maybe I'm just optimistic, no offense intended to anyone if anyone's offended.

Excerpt from the SFX Special Edition Tribute to Joss Whedon "Georges Jeanty" Section on Season 8 - according to Jeanty "Of all the stuff that's happened in the other seasons, this, in terms of ramifications, is probably the biggest season. That's not to say anything about Angel being Twilight which was the big reveal a few months ago . These last five issues, once it starts up up again in September, will in my opinion feel like, "Wow, we thought that was the big deal." when in fact that was just sort of the denouement, and now the ending is actually something that's much, much different."

_________________________________________________________________________

Whatever the finale brings, we know that Angel/Angelus will be having his own comic book line and so he will indeed be given yet another "way back from his sins" OR there will be some big explanation and justification of why he should not be held responsible for his choices and actions while playing the role of Angel/Twangel.

 

[citiegal17]

Excerpt from the SFX Special Edition Tribute to Joss Whedon "Georges Jeanty" Section on Season 8 - according to Jeanty "Of all the stuff that's happened in the other seasons, this, in terms of ramifications, is probably the biggest season. That's not to say anything about Angel being Twilight which was the big reveal a few months ago . These last five issues, once it starts up up again in September, will in my opinion feel like, "Wow, we thought that was the big deal." when in fact that was just sort of the denouement, and now the ending is actually something that's much, much different."

_________________________________________________________________________

Whatever the finale brings, we know that Angel/Angelus will be having his own comic book line and so he will indeed be given yet another "way back from his sins" OR there will be some big explanation and justification of why he should not be held responsible for his choices and actions while playing the role of Angel/Twangel.

At this point, Angel's excuses are still lame and don't work, and as far as him not being responsible for his actions that shipped has sailed so he doesn't get that either. The day that the deaths of slayers don't matter that much in a series labled Buffy the Vampire Slayer, is a sad day for female empowerment.Buffy the Vampire Slayer is about female empowerment, and the ability of an ordinary girl to do extradionary things, and its not her powers that make her extradionary its her personality and heart. One of Buffy's best victories was in the Gift, when she didn't compromise her morals and gave up her life for an innocent, thats female empowerment at its best. I surely hope that Buffy isn't reduced in heart, simply for the sake of the shippers, or the fact that the writers want to make a buck on a character not based on what he does but who he is. Although, I do think there is one more twist that will be bigger than the Twilight nonsense, and I do have some faith left in Joss that he will not write a story full of double standards that dimishes Buffy as a female icon. This turning out to be more of a rant so I hope I'm not offending anyone.

 

[LadyLavinia]

I think calling it Suckydale has more to do with yet another crisis located there than the town itself. Sunnydale is where evil is born and keeps coming back to destroy the world, I can see why Buffy is a bit resentful.

Evil is born in Sunnydale? In a small location on Earth? I find that extremely hard to believe.

 

[Kean]

white avenger agrees: The tattoo on Angel's back depictsa stylized Griffin, which has the body of a lion, combined with thebwings AND HEAD of an eaglel and the tail of a dragon. I don't think that there's any connection between it and Angel and Buffy's "child."

The tattoo on Angel's back is actually a winged lion taken from The Book of Kells.

Book of Kells

Angel's Tattoo

This site talks a little about the connection between the Angel's tattoo and that of the Kells image.

http://www.maquisleader.com/buffy/tattoo.htm

 

[Anya2012]

So the Master's return won't be explained and Buffy is boinking Spike after boinking Angel? Ok, I'm done with season 8.