Discussion of 8.40 "Coda" - Released 1/19/11 (Dark Horse)

[sosa lola]

Buffy herself said the exact same thing in Season 7.

Which was also unfair at that time, and that sentence was what made Xander and Willow unable to back her up.

Spike is the one person whose support she has absolute trust in, because he, unlike Giles, Willow, Dawn, and Xander, has never betrayed her.

But Spike had lied to her and stayed away fighting along side with Angel. While Xander, Willow and Dawn stuck by her side helping her fighting her battles. Right now she appears more comfortable around Xander and Dawn, she considers them her family, because since S7 she made a unit with them. She's still not comfortable around Spike because he's been away for a couple of years, but I can see that changing in S9 what with Spike being back in Buffy's life.

 

[Kean]

Yes, this was definitely the Jossiest issue of the season, and probably one of the best. I didn't like everything that happened in it, but it was a great story and told very well.

I agree, there are some things that don't quite sit right: Giles only leaving Buffy the Vampyr book and the emphasis put on the fact that Buffy is the The Slayer, and nothing else. In one sense that reaffirmation of her slayerness is refreshing but on the other hand her isolation has never been so pronounced. I just hope there is more for her in S9 than graveyards and demons.

Also, does anyone else get a distinct Dumbledore feeling from Giles and his will?

Oh and another thing, we are told that Giles' middle name is Edmund. I am convinced there is a King Lear analogy staring me in the face but I can't quite see it. Anyone have any suggestions? Are Faith and Buffy supposed to be Goneril and Reagan? None of it quite fits but I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm missing a connection.

Yes, I think it's Aluwyn. Willow already dealt with her feelings for Tara in "Goddesses & Monsters."

But... for Willow to dump her real live girlfriend so she can stare at a picture in a book is pretty much indicative of her state of mind now. Everyone else in the story looks to be recovering and moving onward and upward (or soon will start to, in Angel's case). But not Willow. She's sinking.

I keep thinking that Willow and Angel could actually find themselves as uneasy partners next season. I suspect that they will both be seeking to undo what was done.

I think they will ultimately be together only when they die in each other's arms at the very end of the story.

Pretty much. I've always expected that but now I'm sure of it.

I don't know if there is any Fangel romance coming up next season, but I really kind of hope not. Those two should stay platonic, even though Angel's curse is probably no longer in effect.

I honestly don't think Fangel will happen. I don't think romance of any kind would be on either of their minds. Faith and Angel shine as friends and allies. It would be ridiculous to try and change that.

This is quite some time after the Hellmouth battle, though. They've already buried Giles, read his will, and Faith has moved into his flat. That would be a loooong time for Angel not to get cleaned up, catatonic or not. I think by this point he'd be getting a lot smellier than Faith would like to live with.

I don't think the scenes at Giles' apartment are that long after the battle, possibly a couple of weeks. The San Francisco part is 6 months after #39 all right. I could see Faith beating the crap out of him in grief though. Someone else suggested that she is force feeding him and that's where the blood comes from. I suppose any scenario is plausible so we should just pick the one that best suits us lol

I wonder how long Angel will last in that apartment though, it must be filled with the smell of Giles. That has to be unbearable. It would be just like Angel to suffer that though.

I guess we'll find out what consequences the death of magic has had down in the world below. Especially since their main problem is not vampires but demons, and most demons (unlike vamps) can go on reproducing without magic. For them, the situation is "as many demons as ever, but no Slayers or magic to fight them with anymore."

And that's how we end up with the Frayverse. At least, that's what I imagine happening.

And well they should. But there must be some people who understand. I hope Satsu will still be there for her in some way, along with Leah and Rowena.

I don't know if anyone will ever actually understand but there are a few who still support her despite the tragedy i.e. Dawn and Xander.

 

[AndrewCrossett]

I agree, there are some things that don't quite sit right: Giles only leaving Buffy the Vampyr book and the emphasis put on the fact that Buffy is the The Slayer, and nothing else. In one sense that reaffirmation of her slayerness is refreshing but on the other hand her isolation has never been so pronounced. I just hope there is more for her in S9 than graveyards and demons.

Scott said this in his interview with Buffyfest:

Buffyfest: [...] Faith [...] gets Giles' belongings, but Giles still gives Buffy the title of THE Slayer even in death. Is your interpretation of Giles leaving Buffy the "Vampyre" book the same as Faith's?

SA: My interpretation is different than Faith's. Faith's right, but there's more to it than that. Giles wouldn't give it to Buffy to burn Faith. Giles was a smart guy.

I think there will be a lot more continuation of story elements between seasons 8 and 9 than there have been between most seasons of Buffy. I don't think we're anywhere near done yet with the issue of Twilight, for example.

Oh and another thing, we are told that Giles' middle name is Edmund. I am convinced there is a King Lear analogy staring me in the face but I can't quite see it. Anyone have any suggestions? Are Faith and Buffy supposed to be Goneril and Reagan? None of it quite fits but I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm missing a connection.

It might be a Chronicles of Narnia reference. In the books, Edmund is an unpleasant, rebellious character who allows himself to be seduced by evil, until he reforms his ways and becomes a good person. The story of Ripper/Giles fits kind of a similar pattern.

I keep thinking that Willow and Angel could actually find themselves as uneasy partners next season. I suspect that they will both be seeking to undo what was done.

I think Willow will be focused like a laser on getting the magic back. Angel might not be too keen on that agenda, since it would mean the return of Twilight as well (not to mention the Senior Partners, and his curse.)

I could envision Willow teaming up with Amy, actually. I fear a bit for Dawn. If she still functions as the Key, she may be the only thing in the world that could open up the portals again and allow magic back in. I hope Willow doesn't fall so far as to become another Glory, but this is Joss we're talking about.

Someone else suggested that she is force feeding him and that's where the blood comes from.

That's an interesting possibility.

And that's how we end up with the Frayverse. At least, that's what I imagine happening.

There are discrepancies between what we were told in "Fray" and what we were shown in season 8. Urkonn tells Fray that the Slayer 200 years ago (i.e. Buffy) banished all the vampires, and demons and magicks all at once, and that Slayers stopped being called because they had no more enemies to fight. But that's not exactly how it happened.

 

[racheltng]

There are discrepancies between what we were told in "Fray" and what we were shown in season 8. Urkonn tells Fray that the Slayer 200 years ago (i.e. Buffy) banished all the vampires, and demons and magicks all at once, and that Slayers stopped being called because they had no more enemies to fight. But that's not exactly how it happened.

It's well established in the Frayverse that history and legend tend to mingle over time, leading to a muddy picture of what actually happened, ie, the Battle of Starbucks. Watcher's journals get lost or destroyed; events get reinterpreted. 200 years from now, they may not have a completely clear picture of what happened during Buffy's life. They got the jist of it, though.

 

[VisionGirl]

I have such mixed feelings about this issue. I do love it- love the tone, love the character interactions and the dialogue. But Buffy's guilt and aloneness is so overwhelming to me, it just makes me sad. I know that she'll deal and get through that, she always has, and I'm sure we're meant to feel those things: Willow's loss, Kennedy's grief, etc.

Willow/Kennedy breakup: it's interesting, soooo many people have hoped & prayed for this day, but I don't feel anything but sadness. I think that's because Kennedy has really grown on me. Willow may not love her, but I'm not so sure that Aluwyn is good for her either, and her future quest to reunite with her may be truly destructive. I don't trust Aluwyn, I don't think that her feelings for Willow or her intentions are pure, and may not even been good at all. I honestly hope for Kennedy that she & Satsu get together, I loved their interactions.

I know everyone is incredibly happy that we'll be "back to basics" in s9, but I for one am going to miss some of the grand scope, particularly the fantastical demons.

I'm not at all surprised at Faith's taking on Angel. It's totally in her character & flows from their relationship in ATS. And Jeanty has previously said that Faith would do something remarkable in this regard. I'm on the bandwagon of no Fangel romance either- would completely ruin the dynamic!

I'm surprised at Buffy is making a big deal out of rooting for Kennedy, she's always approved of her, like in #10.

I'm not surprised, I think Buffy's line is more about the fandom than anything else, more about the writer's insistence on continuing Willow/Kennedy's relationship in s9 despite the protestations of the fandom. And perhaps reflects some fans changing attitudes about Willow/Kennedy.

I'm gonna really miss Jeanty, he draws expressions the best out of all the artists I've seen.

What? You're not implying that Jeanty will not be with us in season 9, are you? Because I haven't heard anything to that effect.

Also, Buffy and Dawn consider him their hero. So, aww.

Love this. I'm not upset about Buffy/Xander getting their moment in this issue, since they've had all of s8, and Xander has been one of the true heroes of this season (& maybe the entire series!).

But... for Willow to dump her real live girlfriend so she can stare at a picture in a book is pretty much indicative of her state of mind now. Everyone else in the story looks to be recovering and moving onward and upward (or soon will start to, in Angel's case). But not Willow. She's sinking.

I agree. It really makes me sad. At least she's not insane though, I think that would've been even more upsetting (for me, personally). At this point I have absolutely no idea which direction she's going. Like Kean, I can see her going darker after this point, but maybe not. It's really up in the air.

I was surprised to see that Fairy. I had assumed "The Chain" was a set-piece and wouldn't be referenced again in the story.

I loved seeing her! The Chain was one of my favorite issues, and I've always been curious what else was going on down there.

I guess we'll find out what consequences the death of magic has had down in the world below. Especially since their main problem is not vampires but demons, and most demons (unlike vamps) can go on reproducing without magic. For them, the situation is "as many demons as ever, but no Slayers or magic to fight them with anymore."

I am still a bit confused about the consequences of the destruction of the seed, and although this issue cleared up a bit, I still need more explanation. So far it seems that we know: the Slayers retain their powers, but no more will be called; the vampires retain their vampire-ness, but cannot sire other vampires; the witches have lost their power; some magical creatures remain (the fairy). I am still unclear about all the other demons. Clearly, Spike's bugs remain, but I don't know if they are demons or entities from another dimension stuck in our own, or aliens.

And well they should. But there must be some people who understand. I hope Satsu will still be there for her in some way, along with Leah and Rowena.

I hope s9 will explore what's happening to these Slayers. I know that everybody else seems to want to get down to our core characters, but I have come to really like some of these guys, and the disbandment of the Slayer army has to be affecting them mightily.

He is almost like the old knights, sworn to defend her honor and protect his lady from all harm. Once more, that doesn't necessarily have any sort of romantic connotation as much as he recognizes that, literally, everything that he now is, the hero, the Champion, and simply the Better Man, he owes to her.

Oh, WA, I so love this analogy, it fits Spike to a T!

However, I'm kind of unsatisfied with the Spuffy interaction in this issue. I think that due to Buffy's guilt (that she simply can't hide in front of Spike) & some mistrust she feels regarding Spike, she just can't let him in (literally & figuratively). She never contacted him after Chosen, but neither did he! And how did he know all this info about Twilight, and why didn't he tell her about it sooner? It just seems like Buffy is unsure of so many things right now (Xander & Dawn are the only things she's sure of right now, I hope she doesn't move out right away, they all need each other). So anyway, her inability to lean on Spike for support makes me sad as well.


In conclusion, I love Joss' last statement: "So why am I so giddy about Season 9? Maybe I'm a fan". 🙂

 

[prophecygrrl]

Anyone else love the last line? "Let's go to work." 😀 I love it.

 

[VisionGirl]

Kean: and then there is this weird fella covered in blood. We don't know who he is but according to interviews by Allie, we'll see more of him next season.

At first I thought it was Harth, then maybe Roden (although I don't have NFFY in front of me, and can't find a pic of him online for the life of me!). But maybe it's someone different entirely. He just looks familar....

Ooh, nevermind, Joss says in his EW interview: "He’s a new guy. I can’t tell you about him. But you are not wrong to say you don’t remember him, because he has not appeared yet. He has yet to come."

 

[white avenger]

(Refering to the fact that Buffy had said in Season 7 that Spike was the only one who was watching her back)

Which was also unfair at that time, and that sentence was what made Xander and Willow unable to back her up.

Buffy told Giles that, in a private conversation, with no one else in the room at the time. Unless Giles told Willow and Xander what she said, and I can't really see any reason for him to do that, that couldn't have had anything to do with their betrayal. It would be kind of ironic, though, if, in protest of her statement that they weren't watching her back, they refused to watch her back, thereby proving the accuracy of her statement.

 

[The Unspoken]

I think Spike's comment about having her back was literal - he was protecting her from vengeful Slayers, among other threats. He's in the only place to do so, since Buffy is without army and Willow lost her powers.

I never thought of the Empty Places mutiny as betrayal. I think of it more as an argument gone out of hand.

 

[white avenger]

I never thought of the Empty Places mutiny as betrayal. I think of it more as an argument gone out of hand.

Traditionally, a mutiny on the high seas involves the ship's crew rebelling against the commanding officer's authority, either killing the Captain, stranding him on a desert island, or putting him overboard in a lifeboat, then appointing their own Captain, usually the person who led the mutineers. Other than the fact that, instead of the high seas, it's Sunnydale, and instead of a ship, Buffy is thrown out of her own home, I would say that what happened in "Empty Places" meets all of the criteria of a mutiny quite well.

 

[sosa lola]

But Buffy, as it happens, knew that Spike was back, and where he was. As far as he knew, she was in Rome, happy, with the Immortal. He stayed away so as not to interfere with her happiness. What was her excuse?

We don't know all facts. Buffy probably knew from Andrew and was upset that Spike didn't tell her himself, which is obviously the most likely scenario, or else why would she be angry with him?

Buffy told Giles that, in a private conversation, with no one else in the room at the time. Unless Giles told Willow and Xander what she said, and I can't really see any reason for him to do that, that couldn't have had anything to do with their betrayal. It would be kind of ironic, though, if, in protest of her statement that they weren't watching her back, they refused to watch her back, thereby proving the accuracy of her statement.

Giles said that Buffy didn't trust them to all the room, in the shooting script it was said that Xander and Willow looked hurt when Giles said that. Obviously that affected them and made them unable to back her up, especially since they didn't agree with her plan.

Her statement wasn't true because when she said it, Xander and Willow were still watching her back. In fact, Xander got hurt because he was watching her back. He defended her to the potentials just before he got hurt.

 

[Orpheus]

I Love Last Gleaming P5
Every single panel was Buffy at it's Best.
Dawnie&Xander living their normal people existence
He's back in Construction which I love & She's at University.
I was not sooo thrilled with them implying that Willow really loves Aluwyn(I don't trust her)I prefer Kennedy(or Dream scenario Tara back).
Spike was shockingly(I felt he was written oddly this season) back to the Spike I love(Season 5 Spike).
The only thing that had me going Huh? was Giles' middle name being Edmund.
I really loved Faith telling Buffy that she is Stronger....& that thats why Giles left her his apartment.
Very Happy that the Vampyre Book is back and looks to be pretty significant.
and I love that this is all taking place in San Francisco.
Also the Badass Slayer Simone is back ....I don't really enjoy her but she has my name sooo I'm glad to see her.

 

[Kean]

Anyone else love the last line? "Let's go to work." 😀 I love it.

Oh I loved it! So fitting and apt.

And, ya know, eternal shipper that I am, it doesn't hurt that it creates another connection between Buffy and Angel. "Even when we are apart, we're together". Bangel FTW! 😛 (sw)

 

[zobothehobo]

Ok, so I just finished it and read through this whole thread.

A few quick points
I LOVED this issue SO much. From cover to cover, it was awesome. The dialog was witty, smart, cute, funny... it was Buffy. And it was so great to see an issue focused on Buffy's character. It really did feel like the show

I adored the Spuffy scene. I think it is getting back to the friendship, but from that, things grow. But taking a step away from my shippers heart and looking at the very special friendship between my two favorite characters we see here, I'm just so pleased. Spike's line about having her back... 1. it's literal as someone already said... he's the only one literally fighting for her. 2. it's really true. I mean someone (or some people) in this thread have said Dawn and Xander have her back because they're not mad... but that's not entirely true. Like Xander said to Dawn in season 7, they're not superheros. They can want to be superheros and they can be friends with the superheros, but they're not superheros. They're not blaming Buffy because now they don't have to be superheros. They don't have to wish they were superheros. They don't have to be as Dawn put it the Scrappy Doos of the group. The two of them can be a normal couple now. What Buffy did, breaking the seed, was the opposite of betrayal to them... it was a gift. She gave them the gift of a kinda normal life. So of course they're not mad. Of course they're not blaming her for bad things happening to them... the bad things didn't happen to them. Spike's still a superhero. He's the only one still in the fight at all that's got her back... that's giving her a heads up on anything and literally helping her fight.

Willow broke up with Kennedy because she's in love with Aluwyn. Not Tara. She still loves Tara, of course she does... but she's in love with Aluwyn now. I can't say I'm not pleased on a basic level Killow's over... but I do actually kinda feel bad for Kennedy. Willow broke up with her and said that it was because Kennedy only liked her for her powers (knowing good and well that wasn't true). Kennedy WAS/IS in love with Willow. And it sucks for her Willow's not in love with her back. As much as I still dislike Kennedy (no matter how much growing she did in season 8 and in the space between season 7 and season 8), she doesn't deserve that.

Giles leaving everything to Faith hurt me. Buffy's my second favorite character. So I sympathize with her a lot. I read that and I saw and felt Buffy's hurt and feeling of betrayal. I really for a moment had to put the book down, get up and throw a pillow at the wall really, really hard. I understand he probably had his reasons... but Faith's interpretation was hurtful to me too... Part of that is, of course, my dislike for Faith. Hopefully a Fangel relationship (not necessarily romantic, more of friendship... maybe leading to romantic... but friendship at it's core) will develop in season 9 since Faith is going to be the one to help Angel through this (or try). I've always felt that Fangel could make each other's characters better people much in the way Spuffy makes each other's characters better people. I don't like Faith or Angel but hopefully they can help each other grow into better people. Anyway, back to Giles leaving Faith his estate (if you could call it that). For now I'm still not sure what to think about it and I hope we get more of a development into why that happened that way in season 9.

Possibly my favorite part (behind the Spuffy scene) was Dawn's fake sex. Especially "Xander will it even fit?!" And then Buffy's "If I didn't know Dawnie better, I'd think she was doing that on purpose."

My third favorite part is the end. And I LOVE that Buffy said "Let's go to work."

I also really loved Joss' letter. And I'm also giddy for season 9. SO giddy, in fact. 🙂

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

I forgot something about the Spuffy scene... Buffy calling him Blondie Bear and his bit about how Harmony has "among other things, completely ruined Dancing With The Stars this season" was great. That bit Spike says... oh god I can hear James' voice in my head and it really makes me chuckle.

 

[sosa lola]

2. it's really true. I mean someone (or some people) in this thread have said Dawn and Xander have her back because they're not mad... but that's not entirely true. Like Xander said to Dawn in season 7, they're not superheros. They can want to be superheros and they can be friends with the superheros, but they're not superheros. They're not blaming Buffy because now they don't have to be superheros. They don't have to wish they were superheros. They don't have to be as Dawn put it the Scrappy Doos of the group. The two of them can be a normal couple now. What Buffy did, breaking the seed, was the opposite of betrayal to them... it was a gift. She gave them the gift of a kinda normal life. So of course they're not mad. Of course they're not blaming her for bad things happening to them... the bad things didn't happen to them.

It doesn't matter if Xander and Dawn weren't affected by the loss of magic, what matters is they still got Buffy's back. Spike isn't affected, too, so why does he take more credit than Xander and Dawn? Faith is also a superhero and doesn't blame Buffy, shouldn't she get credit?

Only witches are affected and slayers are angry because there isn't an army anymore. No more new slayers.

I don't think it's about blame, it's about slaying. Spike got Buffy's back in slaying. And I really hope he means that. Because Xander and Dawn are giving Buffy a place to stay, that should count as them having her back.

 

[zobothehobo]

It doesn't matter if Xander and Dawn weren't affected by the loss of magic, what matters is they still got Buffy's back. Spike isn't affected, too, so why does he take more credit than Xander and Dawn? Faith is also a superhero and doesn't blame Buffy, shouldn't she get credit?

Only witches are affected and slayers are angry because there isn't an army anymore. No more new slayers.

I don't think it's about blame, it's about slaying. Spike got Buffy's back in slaying. And I really hope he means that. Because Xander and Dawn are giving Buffy a place to stay, that should count as them having her back.

That's what I mean though (your last bit). Xander and Dawn don't have Buffy's back like Spike does 'cause they're removed from the fight. The changes to the world mean they don't have to be in a fight they don't belong in anymore. They don't have Buffy's back in the fight against evil, 'cause they're not in it. That's why my last line of that paragraph said "He's [Spike] only one still in the fight who's got her back."

 

[prophecygrrl]

Ok, so I just finished it and read through this whole thread.

A few quick points
I LOVED this issue SO much. From cover to cover, it was awesome. The dialog was witty, smart, cute, funny... it was Buffy. And it was so great to see an issue focused on Buffy's character. It really did feel like the show

I adored the Spuffy scene. I think it is getting back to the friendship, but from that, things grow. But taking a step away from my shippers heart and looking at the very special friendship between my two favorite characters we see here, I'm just so pleased. Spike's line about having her back... 1. it's literal as someone already said... he's the only one literally fighting for her.

I love the Spike/Buffy scene. I really do. I love what he says to her, about how the world is always on f#$%ing fire, and f#$% anyone who thinks they could've done better, because it's so true. I don't see everything that happened in Season 8 as directly Buffy's fault at all, and it's really sad to see Buffy take it so hard, but of course she has to. It's what she does. But, y'know...at least she's got Spike. 😀

 

[SpaceLord]

Not a bad ending but to summarise the whole season: bleh!

 

[GrrArghx]

Ugh. I just really, really don't like Giles anymore. I was sad for Buffy that he died, but him leaving all of his stuff to Faith is just the last straw. I mean, I get the whole explanation with Faith needing it more and Buffy getting the book to confirm she's the "real" Slayer, but whatever. I still think it was low. But, really, I haven't liked Giles much since S6 anyway.

Anyways, as for the rest of the issue, I liked it. It was a good read and I already can't wait for S9 😛

 

[Icarium]

My goodness this issue sucked. S7 deja vu - everyone is all "Buffy was wrong" but Spike is all Buffy is right and the obvious implication is that this is indeed the case. And why is everyone blaming her for breaking the seed and not for helping rate Twilight in the first place? I know, because everybody in this comic is freaking moron!

Other than everyone disliking Buffy, the supposed apocalypse to top all apocalypse is all but ignored. Nobody is itching to kill Angel and we don't get a PoV from some average Joe to see how the public deals with the existence of demons and vampires. They might as well have fought the battle underground without anyone noticing it! Nobody stops to think whether there is even a need for Slayers in a world where the veil of secrecy is gone. I so knew this would happen.

Willow is drugged through the mud some more. Breaking the seed is worse than the destruction of the world? Shut up, Willow! And if it's true she in love with the aptly named "exposition snake"...well, I have no words.

Buffy told Giles that, in a private conversation, with no one else in the room at the time. Unless Giles told Willow and Xander what she said, and I can't really see any reason for him to do that, that couldn't have had anything to do with their betrayal. It would be kind of ironic, though, if, in protest of her statement that they weren't watching her back, they refused to watch her back, thereby proving the accuracy of her statement.

It's kind of hard to trust somebody who doesn't trust you. Especially if this someone behaves like a lunatic.