Discussion of Angel & Faith 9.04 "Live Through This 4"-Released 11/30/11 (Dark Horse)

zianna

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ISSUE 4 SUMMARY

The issue begins with the demons fighting Angel and Faith. Nash says that he has already killed 50 slayers and killing Faith won't be any fun anymore, just boring. Angel attacks Pearl and bites her, and her brother stops fighting Faith in order to help his sister. Faith probably gets the chance and puts one of the 2 Mohra jars she holds inside Nash's pocket, and she tells to the crowd that he has the last of the Mohra blood. The crowd attacks the demonic siblings and Faith with Angel get the chance to escape the fight. Faith notices that Fraser is running for the door instead, suggesting to Angel they should do the same. But Angel smells something in the basement and decides that this is the chance to see what more Fraser is keeping and hiding as a secret.

As they are heading downstairs, we get a look into Faith's thoughts. She wonders if she can trust him, she wonders whether she should make him human right now using the jar she has in her hands, wondering what will happen if Perl and Nash attack human!Angel, realizing that they will probably kill him, but at the end she makes the choice to use the blood to turn Angel into human. But right before she does it, surprise!

They find a room full of monsters! Realizing that those monsters are just the people who had paid to buy the Mohra blood and use it to heal themselves, they are the people that were missing from last issue's investigation that Faith and Angel had done. Because of the breaking of the seed, the Mohra blood keeps on regenerating the cells, getting to the people that use it a kind of cancer. Faith shocked lets the last jar of blood drop and get smashed on the floor. Then a monster talks informing them that they hurt very much and what they live is a torture. They have been keeping the monsters inside the basement trying to find a cure, but nothing works and it only gets worst. The monster tells them that they tried to kill themselves and each other, but they keep on healing and asks for Angel's and Faith's help to end their misery. But Angel asks for their help first.

And what's that help? Meanwhile upstairs, Nash and Perl are enjoying the fight and basically are winning it. So the monsters go upstairs informing everyone how the blood works, and the crowd gets uninterested in the blood now. Pear and Nash leave when they realize they came for nothing informing Angel that this isn't over and that they'll be back. Faith thinks it's a trick and they'll be back soon, but Angel believes that they have wasted too much energy already. A monster attacks and Angel beheads it and kills it. He informs that separating the head from the body is the only thing that will stop the regenerating part, and the monsters ask them to kill them and do it fast. So Angel and Faith kill all the human!monsters releasing them from their misery. Angel tells Faith that he will keep on trying to find another way to bring back Giles and they leave.

Next we see Perl and Nash arriving to Whistler's place. They inform him that they found Angel, but the reason they left was because Faith put the jar inside his pocket and they were afraid of breaking it. Happily they inform Whistler that things are much better than they had imagined, since the blood now without magic works differently since it's more lethal than anything right now.

Next morning Faith meets Nadira in a park, informing her that Perl and Nash are in England and that she'll make sure they will pay for what they did. Nadira happily gives her a hug, telling her that she finally will get a chance to make things right and kill them and then Angel so she can finally get some peace. As Faith leaves the park she meets Alasdair again. He tells her that he has heard what happened with the blood and asks her if she has consider what he has told her. Faith gets angry and tells him that all she does is lie to people she cares about, just like she has done in her past. Alasdair replies that he knows nothing of Faith's past, bit it's up to her judgment to dissuade Angel from his mad plan. As Faith leaves him, she mentions that it was her judgment that almost got Angel killed the previous night.

Faith returns home finding Angel doing research reading books. She comments on the fact that Angel wears glasses, and she thought that vampires don't need them. Angel tries to justify it saying that if you needed them before you need them afterwards (but it is the first time ever that we see Angel wearing glasses while reading, although he have seen him plenty of times reading!). He also adds that he has found another way to bring back the dead. A Sadhu in 1764 claimed that he had restored a physical body from its ashes. So Faith gets the chance to tell him that she is on his side, but one of the things that were made clear even by Giles was that you can't bring someone back from the dead after a natural death. And she warns Angel that if he crosses the lines, she will stop him whatever it takes. Surprisingly Angel says that he knows and that this is the reason why he has asked for her help. He gets obsessed too often and the last thing that Giles would want would be to bring him back by hurting other people. But that is exactly what Angel didn't have while he was Twilight. Somebody who knew him, who had seen the best and worst of him and somebody who could tell him when he was going too far and he was crossing the lines. Somebody to stop him when he couldn't stop himself. So Angel asks again Faith's help, and she promises to watch his back. Then Faith heads to the kitchen, she's hungry, and she asks Angel if he wants some blood. But Angel tells her that he doesn't and that he prefers some tea (in a panel where we see him reading a book wearing his glasses reminding us more and more of Giles). Faith doesn't notice it at the beginning but when she mentions that he sounded "just like him" she kind of gets suspicious of something going on. But she says "Never mind. Earl gray coming up".

END OF THE FIRST ARC.
 
That was rather anti-climactic. Pearl and Nash just decide not to bother fighting Angel and Faith? Contrivance much? Angel wants someone to stop him from being an idiot (good luck with that!), yet when Faith tells him his plans are crazy he continues doing what he was doing. WTF? How are Faith's objections changing things? The mohra blood victims tried killing each other to no avail. You would think they would have tried the obvious idea of cutting their heads off. Angel and Faith killing them without considering that there might be a way to cure them was rather disturbing.
 
That last page could either be amazing or terrible. If they do something like make Giles and Angel share the same body I will officially stop considering this canon and just really bad fan fiction
 
brinkster130
brinkster130
[No message]
The more I think about the final twist, the more I'm fascinated with it.

I guess it's time to rewatch Dollhouse.

If (a big IF) Joss plans to explore some of his "Dollhouse" ideas on A&F, it could be a completely new and original take on the characters.
 
That last page could either be amazing or terrible. If they do something like make Giles and Angel share the same body I will officially stop considering this canon and just really bad fan fiction

I was actually thinking about giving this comics a try, but after reading the last paragraph, I'll pass. There's better fanfiction to find out there 😀
 
This was a very enjoyable issue! I LOVED the twist with the Morah blood, and God, the poor people, I'm thinking of them and their family right now. That's so sad. The scene with Angel and Faith cutting off their heads was also sad and disturbing. Wonderful moments.

I'm not sure what to feel about Gangel. I kinda like the idea of Teenage Giles coming back. I don't know how they're gonna explain this one.
 
https://twitter.com/#!/Christosgage/status/141923717499469824
[MENTION=9824]Chris[/MENTION]tosgage
BTW questions raised by the last couple pages of ANGEL & FAITH #4 will be answered in #7. By Drusilla, of all people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apparently, Dru hasn't lost her psychic abilities. 🙂

I'm really looking forward to this. It will be exciting to see Dru again.


This was a very enjoyable issue! I LOVED the twist with the Morah blood, and God, the poor people, I'm thinking of them and their family right now.


Yes, I really enjoyed the Morah blood twist, but like [MENTION=8821]Icarium[/MENTION] said, I wondered why Angel and Faith didn't even for a second consider a cure for them.

I'm not sure what to feel about Gangel. I kinda like the idea of Teenage Giles coming back. I don't know how they're gonna explain this one.

Same here, I liked the idea of having Angel somewhat accepting Giles' role and maybe stepping into it at some point, but I'm not sure how I feel about Angel becoming Giles. To be honest I find it a little creepy. It will be interesting to see how they explain it, maybe more than that single memory was passed on to Angel. Or maybe when Angel killed Giles, part of his soul stayed with Angel?
 
Loved this issue. Really great twist with the Mohra blood. I have to say that I like the way both series are exploring the changes with the end of magic. I don't always understand or like every detail of that, but I like that they're not glossing over it.

And the ending, wow: the sweater, the glasses, "a spot of tea"? WTH?! And I guess I part with others I guess: I like this storyline. It completely sounds like something they would have done in the show.

ETA: & speaking of Dollhouse, Faith's "look" at the party is very Echo-ish IMO.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

So, based on Allie's comments in the Slay the Critics section, the next episode is a one-shot/standalone piece, right?

I also really like the letter from the IDW fan. I don't need answers right now either, I just need to know that the writers & editors are listening to that POV.
 
And I guess I part with others I guess: I like this storyline. It completely sounds like something they would have done in the show.

I absolutely am with you here - this was one of the moments of the arc that did not exactly caught me by surprise - I was expecting something of a kind ever since Faith said 'it is good of you to try and fill Giles' shoes' or something like that. But yes, I never expected them to go so literal. I still love it though - these two are the two characters I love the most in the verse ( well Wesley was the third) ... I don't think this will turn out entirely Dollhouse-like - although I am probably one of the few who would not mind. Still , there is something weirdly appealing to me in that image of Angel looking Giles -like over his reading glasses. God I loved that page a bit too much. Ahem. As to why and how - after their plot antics with zompires and Mohra blood I don't really care to seek 'reasonable' or 'logical' explanations to all the crap that is going with the verse mythology. Dru will explain - and we will have to trust her. One thing is reasonably certain now though - we probably won't see zombie Ripper running around. But maybe we shall see a glimpse of Eygon in issue 6 ?
 
I absolutely am with you here - this was one of the moments of the arc that did not exactly caught me by surprise - I was expecting something of a kind ever since Faith said 'it is good of you to try and fill Giles' shoes' or something like that. But yes, I never expected them to go so literal. I still love it though - these two are the two characters I love the most in the verse ( well Wesley was the third) ... I don't think this will turn out entirely Dollhouse-like - although I am probably one of the few who would not mind. Still , there is something weirdly appealing to me in that image of Angel looking Giles -like over his reading glasses. God I loved that page a bit too much. Ahem. As to why and how - after their plot antics with zompires and Mohra blood I don't really care to seek 'reasonable' or 'logical' explanations to all the crap that is going with the verse mythology. Dru will explain - and we will have to trust her. One thing is reasonably certain now though - we probably won't see zombie Ripper running around. But maybe we shall see a glimpse of Eygon in issue 6 ?

I guess it too much of a Giles fan to love something like this 😉 Just by reading it I'm disliking it already, and it killed my intention of giving the Angel comics a try. something else to think about; who is Buffy gonna be with next time she and Angel get together? 😱
 
I guess it too much of a Giles fan to love something like this 😉 Just by reading it I'm disliking it already, and it killed my intention of giving the Angel comics a try. something else to think about; who is Buffy gonna be with next time she and Angel get together? 😱
LOL! Biles! Bangel! Looks like those two ship camps will have to come together now. Bangiles! Lol.
 
something else to think about; who is Buffy gonna be with next time she and Angel get together? 😱

Well, with Angel of course, tis is still his body. And who said this is anything permanent or complete? The rules are so fluid in the verse nowadays that by the time the season ends Giles' memories might not be there - except as a residual. I might be weird - but the thought of Buffy having her lover and parent figure rolled into one does not turn me off at all. This is Jossverse after all.
 
I guess it too much of a Giles fan to love something like this 😉 Just by reading it I'm disliking it already, and it killed my intention of giving the Angel comics a try. something else to think about; who is Buffy gonna be with next time she and Angel get together? 😱

This doesn't bother me be because I don't see this as being permanent at all. They've done this sort of thing before in the Buffyverse and I didn't mind it. Besides overall, Gage says that we will definitely see more Giles flashbacks, & I'm super-excited about that. Plus Faith's father, Connor, Drusilla. A lot to look forward to! You really should give it a shot! The artwork is gorgeous. And you can always try out an issue on Dark Horse digital, especially the 1st issue with the Giles flashback. Digital is cheaper too.

The only thing I'm NOT looking forward to is Clem & Harmony- kill me now!
 
LOL! Biles! Bangel! Looks like those two ship camps will have to come together now. Bangiles! Lol.
that's a brand new definition of a threesome 😛

I might be weird - but the thought of Buffy having her lover and parent figure rolled into one does not turn me off at all. This is Jossverse after all.

That's exactly the part that makes me freak out.

You really should give it a shot! The artwork is gorgeous. And you can always try out an issue on Dark Horse digital, especially the 1st issue with the Giles flashback. Digital is cheaper too.

For now I'm just gonna follow it online ( a bit) This is just not for me.
 
that's a brand new definition of a threesome

That's exactly the part that makes me freak out.

For now I'm just gonna follow it online ( a bit) This is just not for me.

Or foursome : they could develop Angel/Buffy (or, currently, Angel/Dru) and Faith/Giles simultaneously, using one body for both ships.

I admit, it sounds a bit freaky, but I think I'm ready to accept Giles in Angel's body. Of course, I'd prefer Ripper (and I still hope that the guy in the red glasses is Ripper) - but, hey, it's Joss' sandbox, it's up to him to decide.

Besides, Buffy always had a penchant for older guys - and Giles is much younger than Angel and Spike 🙂
 
but I think I'm ready to accept Giles in Angel's body
That's my problem, right there: I'm not and I never will. So I think it's advisable for me to not read this stuff and hold my position on; Buffy to me ended at season seven, that's better for everyone 😀
 
Hmm, 'Giles in Angel's' body seems like an extreme take on the actual story for me - but I understand that fandom tends to exaggerate as a rule. For that to happen Angel's personality has to be wiped out or altered drastically. So far, what we have is glimpses of Giles memories affecting Angel rather mildly. There is no evidence the whole of personality and memories is going to be transferred. Angel is still Angel as far as I can judge - but perhaps moderated with Giles' wisdom. Definitely not the worst kind of possession Angel been through - and I can count at least five cases of Angel being possessed through the series - and then being restored back to himself. Don't see why this time it should be any different. But it sure might explain why he is so dead set on staying in London ( instead of going back to LA) and sticking to Giles' tasks; as well as his unbreakable obsession with bringing Giles back to life. It certainly is a much better story now than it would have been had they stuck to *not* explaining the said dead-set obsession - and it makes for far better stories based on Giles' past than a plot with zombie Ripper- as well as has a lot of poetic justice - if one is set on blaming Angel for Giles' death. In other words - pure Jossean story.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
You have managed to again put my thoughts/feelings into words!
I thought that the end of the issue could be interpreted as Faith mis-hearing Angel, mistaking him for Giles because of the Giles-like role he's beginning to fill. This theory is re-inforced by the last frame, which shows Angel looking and acting like Giles, in Giles' apartment, the way that Giles and faith used to interact. Also, note that when Angel gives the Giles quote, there's no difference in the dialogue balloons like we see when Angel is vamped or when he is Twilight. I took the "you sounded like Giles" scenario to be more about Faith missing Giles than Giles actually inhabiting Angel's body.

Of course, this is Buffy so I won't rule it out.
 
[MENTION=8683]Don[/MENTION] - the artist said that Giles likeness is intentional.

7. Question: [...]Angel-as-the-second-coming-of-Giles; how much did you reference Giles' various mannerisms to get them down? I mean, some of the panels are totally Giles-y (e.g. the way Angel holds his glasses).

Rebekah:
[...]As for your question... his mannerisms are definitely intended to evoke Giles (luckily I got most of the reference when I was drawing Giles himself in #1 and 2) but the reason why should surprise you!

Can't post the link, but you can google it if you want to read the context.
 
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