Discussion of Buffy 11.09 - Released 7/19/17 (Dark Horse)

[Priceless]

Fillow? Wow! I'd got Faith pegged as totally hetero so that's too far out on the left field for me to catch! Please bear in mind two of my lads are gay and when they came out it was a bit like Andrew so I have some experience. That said - it would fit in nicely with the idea I have of new social couplings (I'm not saying homosexual couplings are new - just what F and W represent). Yay...I'm really liking Fillow!

Yes Faith is written as hetro, which is why any relationship would have to be a slow burn. She did become very close with Lady Genevive and even shared a bath with her, so I wonder if we were meant to infer that Faith wasn't totally closed to a same sex romance. And I do think it would be romantic, and quite soothing for Faith to have Willow caring about her . . . I might be thinking far too much about this 😀

I like your reading on Spike/Buffy, that language doesn't contain the words they would need to say how they feel about each other and really it's actions that are important. This might work for Buffy, who is action-gal after all, but deep down Spike is still the romantic poet who needs words and needs to believe what's said to him, so for his sake I hope Buffy does find the words 🙁

 

[TriBel]

Yes Faith is written as hetro, which is why any relationship would have to be a slow burn. She did become very close with Lady Genevive and even shared a bath with her, so I wonder if we were meant to infer that Faith wasn't totally closed to a same sex romance. And I do think it would be romantic, and quite soothing for Faith to have Willow caring about her . . . I might be thinking far too much about this 😀

I like your reading on Spike/Buffy, that language doesn't contain the words they would need to say how they feel about each other and really it's actions that are important. This might work for Buffy, who is action-gal after all, but deep down Spike is still the romantic poet who needs words and needs to believe what's said to him, so for his sake I hope Buffy does find the words 🙁

The problem he had in the first place (as William) was with the word Effulgent - he wanted something to rhyme. That in itself is very telling. I'd forgotten about Lady G. You can never think too much...only too little (that's probably a lie but it's got me out of situations in the past).

I still haven't got the hang of this reply thingy!!

 

[Blair]

Yes Faith is written as hetro, which is why any relationship would have to be a slow burn. She did become very close with Lady Genevive and even shared a bath with her, so I wonder if we were meant to infer that Faith wasn't totally closed to a same sex romance. And I do think it would be romantic, and quite soothing for Faith to have Willow caring about her . . . I might be thinking far too much about this

Plus the Fuffy fans would argue that Faith was not exactly straight from season three...

I think Faith would also be good for Willow too. Willow needs someone who's strong and direct but is also truthful, hence Aluwyn not being great for her (plus being a snake god or whatever) Aluwyn was deceitful. Willow and Kennedy were doomed to fail, much to many fans delight and Lake was just not a great choice because of politics. At least she's known Faith for years and they're more on the same page than any of Willow's ex's.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

I just don't see her with Faith. Not that I'm all opposed to the idea. Either bring Tara back, or give her an interesting (but good) relationship. 🙂

 

[Blair]

I can't see Tara coming back now. Willow has changed too much. If Tara was coming back, it would of been done in season ten. But I honestly can't see it working with Tara and Willow now. Willow has changed so much since season six. I don't know how Tara would cope trying to process all that Willow has done.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Agree - the exchanges in the cemetery and the basement in Dirty Girls are stunning. I particularly like the "shot, reverse shots" (complicated by the male and female gazes) in the basement (when did Marsters ever look so "puckish"?). It's part support group and part foreplay. Then both move away when Buffy comes in. I like the fact that he implies he's missing the sex with Buffy. I wouldn't ship them - they'd burn out or kill each other in a week - but I like them together - they're very open. rather, he's open - some of hers is performance.

I do not ship them either. It would not be inconceivable for Spike to fall for Faith, but once he laid eyes on Buffy, it was already too late.

As always, I admire your well thought-out argument WFB 😀 Are you saying you don't ship Fillow?

Omit needless words. 😛

I just do not see the appeal of Fillow at all. They are like water and oil, to me. Why would I want Willow to be saddled with a violent train-wreck who tortures people with fire and spray cans?

Willow in the comics - I am only in early season 9 - is a little more bad-ass than she used to be and maybe she needs a bad-ass girlfriend to match. I liked that she chose to be taught by the trickster Goddess. Just not Faith.

Willow and Buffy seem to be drifting further and further apart. What would happen if Willow fell in love with Faith?

 

[TriBel]

I do not ship them either. It would not be inconceivable for Spike to fall for Faith, but once he laid eyes on Buffy, it was already too late.

Omit needless words. 😛

I just do not see the appeal of Fillow at all. They are like water and oil, to me. Why would I want Willow to be saddled with a violent train-wreck who tortures people with fire and spray cans?

Willow in the comics - I am only in early season 9 - is a little more bad-ass than she used to be and maybe she needs a bad-ass girlfriend to match. I liked that she chose to be taught by the trickster Goddess. Just not Faith.

Willow and Buffy seem to be drifting further and further apart. What would happen if Willow fell in love with Faith?

I dunno - I like Faith in Angel and Faith (haven't read all of 10 yet). She's really come into her own. I like the effect Giles and Angel had on her - she's probably come further than "B". Better Fillow than Lillow!

 

[Stoney]

Frustratingly I think the writers are just keeping the drama/moment of Buffy saying I love you to Spike. I had hoped they would just have her say it when she saw him again, as he had told her to tell him when they met again when he stopped her talking before her/Willow left. Perhaps we are just supposed to assume then that she has. There was the whole slip at the start of the Archaeus arc when she refers to being in love (or loving, I can't remember) the same demon twice. And Dawn talked of her loving two vampires at the rooftop barbeque at the start of this season. So it is kind of there on the page. If it hadn't been for Spike's 'did you say love?' style reaction at the Archaeus moment I could see them arguing that it doesn't need to be a big thing still, they are together and it is spoken of just as a 'known' fact. Him just saying to tell him later does also fall in line with that. But they also seem to want to keep it as this long awaited for moment too. It's a bit messy really. It is like they are trying to both create it as a taken level of feeling/affection in the relationship as well as holding it off as this 'thing'. So it feels that the moment it occurs is going to have to be high impact now, and so it's become a little too drawn out and silly for me. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see it, it would have just been better for it to have been casual and natural for where they are at I think in their relationship than an epic moment. Holding it off doesn't really feel natural at all but all about how/when it is used for the writing. It also means it could be kept back for a bittersweet moment and that would be frustrating to be honest, after all they have been through and all the time they have been actively together now and we've done that in Chosen. It really doesn't fit the relationship to me unless Buffy is still uncertain about her feelings and they don't write them as a couple or when she discusses him since they've been together again in a way that really supports that I don't think.

 

[Priceless]

Faith and Spike would be very similar to Faith and Buffy - great for the first 48 hours, then Faith's neurosis would build up, she'd become jealous and petty and scared and she'd stake Spike and put a pillow over Buffy's head while Buffy slept.

I agree Faith has improved socially and emotionally in the comics, but I think part of that is because she's away from Buffy and can be her own woman without always feeling she's in someone elses shadow. If she were to stay on BtVS she'd need to feel a closeness with Willow (or another character) to balance out her animosity towards Buffy, so when she did feel angry at Buffy she could go to a third person who would listen and comfort her and be there just for her. Faith really needs that unconditional support more than anyone else in the verse imo.

As for Buffy telling Spike ILY and him believing her, it could be just a trick to build the tension (and it's working, I am tense about it 🙂) or they are saving it for the most melodramatic moment, when one or other of them is on the brink of death, but that would be too much like Chosen, even if Spike were to say he belived her now. They've built it up so much I fear it can only be an anti-climax when it does happen.

The thought that Buffy isn't saying it because she doesn't feel it just goes against everything we've seen in season 10 and 11. They couldn't have been written any closer in season 11 - Buffy willingly fed Spike, for a human/vampire relationship surely that's as close as they can get (without the human being turned)

 

[flow]

It also means it could be kept back for a bittersweet moment

Oh God, no. Please no.

Flow

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Oh God, no. Please no.

Oh God, please, yes!

 

[TriBel]

mmm....Buffy pregnant. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I am a mother of 3 so I like children and I'm trying not to let that influence my thoughts. I love the idea of Spike and Buffy being a family but I also like the idea that women don't have to have children to be complete. Buffy's got a pretty big job already without having a kid too. In real life being a Mum does change pretty much every aspect of you life for a period of some years, who am I kidding it's for the rest of your life, so they better have a darn good plan for the story to accomodate a child. Personally I didn't like Connor so that may be turning me off the baby story line.

I've got three and I do let it influence my thoughts - as in "What the b****** hell was I thinking?! Actually, I wasn't thinking - the first were twins and - least said about the third the better. That's three in 15 months - Slaying is a doddle compared to 3 under 15 months (I can be rude because they're grown up). I agree - you don't need them to be complete (actually, I didn't need their dad either but that's another story). I went back to university when they started school and never left. They frequently complain they were neglected and I cheerfully agree. I'm digressing - where was I?

Oh yes - I have this theory (I'm good/bad at theories!) that Touched intimates a new social structure that can only come into being when conditions necessitate it and can support it. I wondered if this was the time. A slayer/vampire baby (that wasn't like Connor) would confirm it. Also - things go in threes - there'd been the aborted universe (what happened to the green lion?) and the false alarm.

Connor - hmm - get rid of your kid for a couple of months and have him back when he's old enough to work. Seems like a plan. The fact that he's a psychopath could be a problem but my youngest manages okay. 🙂 To give my youngest his due - he has better hair.

 

[Mylie]

Well this was a very unimpressive issue. The art was ugly, everything happened too fast (which made it hard to feel invested in anything going), there was so much lame and cliche stuff in it that it made me roll my eyes over and over.

My least favorite issue of s11 so far... which is weird given that it has Faith!

 

[The Bronze]

This side of the universe has been much better. I stopped reading after the poor end of 10 and disappointing start to 11 but it really picks up in the middle. The writers seem to have found the character voices again, I feel like I can hear the actors saying the lines.

Once they get to the camp we get some good focus on Buffy and Willow, as well as some decent action. The government stooge slayers are a nice addition as antagonists.

The discussion about losing powers, living without them and then getting them back was a nice arc, could have been longer though. I was actually really glad to see Faith again. A cool entrance and it felt right. The right amount of time has passed and trust built up that the reactions all felt natural.

It's not perfect, some dialogue is a bit too expositiony. Some of the politics is a little over the top. However I am enjoying this much more than I have for a while. Actually excited for the last few episodes.