Spoiler! Discussion of Buffy 9.05 "Slayer Interrupted"- Released 01/11/12 (Dark Horse)

[Moscow Watcher]

[MENTION=8821]Icarium[/MENTION]:

BtVS S7 aired on UPN, not the WB. [/nitpick]

Oops, my bad. Of course, it's UPN. (I still hold a grudge agaist TheWB for cancelling "Angel" and lambast their politics when possible - even they're not guilty 🙂

I had to look up in the dictionary what "string along" means - "to maintain someone's attention or interest, probably insincerely" and I have to disagree about PR companies stringing all shippers along. The lion's share of PR goes to Bangel. There wasn't a single Spuffy or Bander or Buffy/Riley photoshoot, for example (and I looked hard when I was manipping for Spuffy and Xander-centric LJ projects). You certainly remember all the Bangel hype in 2010; nothing of the sort happens to Spuffy in 2012. Official promotion of Spuffy is and has always been next-to-zero. Spuffy fandom exists on self-service: we manip Buffy and Spike together, write fanfiction and meta about them, make gifs, videos, etc.

I'm not complaining, mind you. I got used to it long ago, and I see enough Spuffy love online to go on.

But if you mean the way Joss tells his stories, then I agree. I, too, think he'll never make a definitive choice between the ships.

 

[Icarium]

I wasn't talking of the PR, I meant Joss and his pandering. I don't know anything about the promos and so on as I wasn't a fan when the show originally aired and frankly I couldn't care less about that. I very much doubt those matters were decided by ME anyway.

Although what was the poin t of stringing if that was the end of the show?

People still needed to buy the DVDs, if Joss pissed too many shippers that would have meant fewer sales. Hence the "pick your own ending" finale.

 

[ladydorotea]

People still needed to buy the DVDs, if Joss pissed too many shippers that would have meant fewer sales. Hence the "pick your own ending" finale.

Aww, and that would have totally worked on the fans like me who never saw the show before buying the dvds, but somehow managed to divine out his interview. LOL 😀 I mean. I totally see where you are coming from with this bit of wisdom, and I totally disagree. Because of what MW have pointed out : the Bangel PR and subsequent burning of Spike quite possibly have reduced the sales instead of increasing them, so if all Joss cared about was sales it would have been wiser to abstain from that comment. And the man knew what was the most numerous fraction of the audience at the moment of finale running (I do not read the fanon metas - but I have every book of reviews and interviews ever published about the show in my humble possession - and I read them all) - and he went against public opinion and future sales of dvd decrease anyhow. I firmly believe that when Joss has a vision that vision he follows, even if it does mean public outcry and multiple stomping of feet. And the latest development in S9 proves this point once again, because regardless of the father identity the sales will drop - but he went for it anyway. And as for choice between the ships - I believe it already have been adressed.

 

[Icarium]

Aww, and that would have totally worked on the fans like me who never saw the show before buying the dvds, but somehow managed to divine out his interview.

What interview? I was referring to the end of S7, the whole cookie dough speech and refusing to commit to any of the two major ships. Actions speak louder than words. Most fans don't read interviews with Joss anyway.

And the man knew what was the most numerous fraction of the audience at the moment of finale running (I do not read the fanon metas - but I have every book of reviews and interviews ever published about the show in my humble possession - and I read them all) - and he went against public opinion and future sales of dvd decrease anyhow.

Did he, really? He tried to have it both ways. Why piss any faction when you can try to appease both? Not a good storytelling recipe, IMO, but I can't see Joss's actions in any other way. The contrast in longevity between Bangel and Spuffy as opposed to every other ship in the Buffyverse is very telling. Joss beats the dead horses because he knows that's what many of his fans want.

I firmly believe that when Joss has a vision that vision he follows, even if it does mean public outcry and multiple stomping of feet.

To an extent, yes, but way too often Joss later tries to appease these same naysayers - "Oh, it wasn't my fault, Amber Benson refused to come back, blame her!", "I will resurrect Spike because..., er, he is a popular character", "Let's make a character go evil and be totally forgiven two episodes later for the twentieth time, it was so exciting the previous nineteen times, am I not just the most daring storyteller!", "The glow influenced Buffy but it also her own choice to have sex with Angel, this totally made sense in my head, I swear!" or "Buffy Summers is an infamous terrorist...oh, wait, that's inconvenient, pretend this never happened, nobody in the world knows her name but the usual suspects - demons and so on". He has repeatedly shown unwillingness to actually deal with the repercussions of the "shocking" twists his story is so full of, so basically he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

And to get back on topic, this might well be the case with the baby - the only reason Buffy doesn't know the father yet is because Joss once again is more concerned with the plot twist than with the quality of the story itself. If the father turns out a non-entity who has no presence in the story at all many will suspect this was done to avoid shipper wars and might well be right about that.

 

[ladydorotea]

Did he, really? He tried to have it both ways. Why piss any faction when you can try to appease both?

Well, prove to me how 'Buffy and Angel transcend everything' quote works to appease both ships, (or how 'You have my heart so what can I do? But he has the ship, so what can I do ?' quote works the same way) - and then we might have a discussion on Joss shiftiness and tradition of pandering to all shippers. So far the story of S9 does just the opposite - he pissed everybody so the sales of the B-book dropped more than 30% since the end of S8 , down to barely 31K. And if you read through my arguments RE: possible father - Spuffy is screwed double if the father is not Angel - because that just means that the girl would rather have drunken casual sex with anybody - nobody - than with her second most important vampire ( who is safe to have sex with , by the way). I would be seriously surprised if the father turns out to be a nobody nonentity - not Joss' MO at all, not with Buffy especially. But we shall see.

 

[Icarium]

Well, prove to me how 'Buffy and Angel transcend everything' quote works to appease both ships, (or how 'You have my heart so what can I do? But he has the ship, so what can I do ?' quote works the same way) - and then we might have a discussion on Joss shiftiness and tradition of pandering to all shippers.

I already said it - actions speak louder than words. But in any case "Buffy and Angel transcend everything" seems to me a non-committal type of answer, similar to those answers politicians give in debates when they don't really want to pick a side. Not to mention that most people who read those interviews are hardcore fans who are going to follow the comics regardless of what stupid things Joss might say unless he really, really crosses the line, so it's not as if Whedon is risking much.

So far the story of S9 does just the opposite - he pissed everybody so the sales of the B-book dropped more than 30% since the end of S8 , down to barely 31K.

I would argue this wasn't so much the intent as it was a result of the sloppy execution. The powers that be seemed quite shocked that people took the glowypnol affair and Twangel so seriously. If Whedon was so serious about pursuing his vision rather than keeping the most popular characters safe he would have let Angel be executed at the end of S8, instead of letting him off the hook once again. Or at least wouldn't have allowed him to go back to being a hero immediately next season.

And if you read through my arguments RE: possible father - Spuffy is screwed double if the father is not Angel - because that just means that the girl would rather have drunken casual sex with anybody - nobody - than with her second most important vampire

For all we know Spike might have said no to Buffy's drunken advances. Plus, sleeping with Spike would have led to many complications (are we back together, do you love me, were we on a break...wait, wrong show), sleeping with some random guy is a safer choice in a sense or at least can seem so when one is really drunk. I don't like Spuffy, mind you, but I don't see why Buffy sleeping with Some-Guy-Who-Is-Not-Spike would be so bad for Spuffy's future prospects.

 

[ladydorotea]

I already said it - actions speak louder than words. But in any case "Buffy and Angel transcend everything" seems to me a non-committal type of answer, similar to those answers politicians give in debates when they don't really want to pick a side.

It sounds very committed to me, but lets leave it to the subtleties of English grammar. Maybe he really meant they don't matter that much to each other and never did.

If Whedon was so serious about pursuing his vision rather than keeping the most popular characters safe he would have let Angel be executed at the end of S8, instead of letting him off the hook once again. Or at least wouldn't have allowed him to go back to being a hero immediately next season.

Unless his vision with Twilight was and is something different altogether, and allowing Angel to go back to being a hero was in the cards from the start. Issue 36 was written by Joss himself, mind you. Most readers seem to take it that the Twilight plot is done and buried and the verse has moved on - ignoring the fact that the broken Seed is the major plot point still, and likely the entire comic run will be addressing Twilight again and again - because it is such a fundamental issue for the verse right now.

I don't like Spuffy, mind you, but I don't see why Buffy sleeping with Some-Guy-Who-Is-Not-Spike would be so bad for Spuffy's future prospects.

Because of the whole debacle of 'I love you' - 'No you don't' maybe? Basically the answer has just been canned, and Spuffy is back to square 1 circa S5 - will they ever - won't they ? And Buffy is pregnant, so there is the whole season of her being pregnant with somebody else child and likely not getting physical with anybody ( not in the mood) while Spike is around and she is 'all in his face' ? And I am not saying they won't ever go back to her being exploitative and him submissive - but I am saying that it sort of became irrelevant - because Spike being around or not means exactly zilch if she can just jump on anybody when the mood strikes her. Greatest love of her life indeed...

 

[Icarium]

. Maybe he really meant they don't matter that much to each other and never did.

Strawman much? Words are cheap. I am a big Willow/Tara fan but I hate their S6 arc. If Joss tomorrow gives an interview how this arc proves the eternal love of Willow and Tara and he considers it the best thing he has ever written will that make me like it any more? Nope. I see interviews as more or less damage control and if they go agaisnt what I see in the story - sorry but intent counts for very little in my book. Execution is what matters. If you see Buffy and Angel as love of the ages or whatever, great. Doesn't mean that people who don't see it that way are wrong just because Joss gave (maybe) an interview to that effect. If tomorrow he says the opposite would your opinion suddenly change too?

Most readers seem to take it that the Twilight plot is done and buried and the verse has moved on - ignoring the fact that the broken Seed is the major plot point still, and likely the entire comic run will be addressing Twilight again and again - because it is such a fundamental issue for the verse right now.

The Seed is a clumsy Macguffin that seems to be there mostly to deflect attention from the real evil acts of Twilight and to have people whine about Buffy breaking it. Has anyone even mentioned the "apocalypse" of S8? Has Buffy and the rest discussed if Angel deserves to keep on living after Twilight-gate? Has the average Joe's attitude towards demons in the wake of a supposed global apocalypse that was prevented in the nick of time has been explored? Nope, vampires are cool becuase the plot says so, demons are members of society for the same reason.

Because of the whole debacle of 'I love you' - 'No you don't' maybe? Basically the answer has just been canned, and Spuffy is back to square 1 circa S5 - will they ever - won't they ?

This was already the case prior to the pregnancy. Is the current Spuffy a well written story? Hell, no. It's soap-operish crap, IMO.

And Buffy is pregnant, so there is the whole season of her being pregnant with somebody else child and likely not getting physical with anybody ( not in the mood) while Spike is around and she is 'all in his face' ?

So? Buffy and Angel hadn't gotten physical in quite some time prior to the space-frak, did this mean their love wasn't transcendent, after all?

And I am not saying they won't ever go back to her being exploitative and him submissive - but I am saying that it sort of became irrelevant - because Spike being around or not means exactly zilch if she can just jump on anybody when the mood strikes her.

You make it sound as if Buffy has one night stands every other night. It was one time and the plot could hardly have been any more unsubtle about how she was depressed and it was a mistake and all that. Spike being around her means little in itself since those two are playing the old "does he/she love me?" game.

 

[ladydorotea]

I am a big Willow/Tara fan but I hate their S6 arc. If Joss tomorrow gives an interview how this arc proves the eternal love of Willow and Tara and he considers it the best thing he has ever written will that make me like it any more? Nope.

Actually I saw quite a few remarks made by him as how he considers that arc 'necessary to Willow's further development'. I don't think he will give you an interview going further than that.

If you see Buffy and Angel as love of the ages or whatever, great. Doesn't mean that people who don't see it that way are wrong just because Joss gave (maybe) an interview to that effect. If tomorrow he says the opposite would your opinion suddenly change too?

I actually care a lot about the author's intent , believe it or not. And try to clarify if I am 'getting it'. I am a kind of an audience that cares less about being in the majority - but a lot about understanding the actual context, and being in the same wavelength with the creator. Weird, eh ?

The Seed is a clumsy Macguffin that seems to be there mostly to deflect attention from the real evil acts of Twilight and to have people whine about Buffy breaking it.

Actually, with all the clumsy Macgufiness of the Seed plot ( and I agree that the whole intelligent Universe consisting of one single planet concept is laughable to anybody who has any background in natural sciences) it has served a purpose quite different from either forvewar condemning Angel as a villain of the piece or branding Buffy as a traitor to the cause. It was a plot device of bringing about the transition from the regular Buffy-verse to the Fray-verse. And the whole of it have not been played out yet - we just saw a glimpse of it in issue #5 with Willow's departure with the Scythe and Buffy's dream vision of herself in her short yellow dress and tall boots ( circa NY Time of Your Life) talking to the First.

Has anyone even mentioned the "apocalypse" of S8?

You seem to be a big adherent of show not tell principle... The Apo of S8 is all over the place in S9 - as well as its consequences...

You make it sound as if Buffy has one night stands every other night. It was one time and the plot could hardly have been any more unsubtle about how she was depressed and it was a mistake and all that. Spike being around her means little in itself since those two are playing the old "does he/she love me?" game.

Firstly, there was a major point made in #40 about her 'not been clinically depressed', secondly, I actually don't believe she had sex at that party, and thirdly I kind of sort of don't believe in a grand love that allows now and then for little slips like drunken sex with other guy happening at the same party where your significant other is present - and due to his especially strong sense of smell certain to know about the other party's transgression. Especially in Joss story. With all his 'feminism' and 'liberalism' and 'progressiveness' he has this severe prejudice against sex and its consequenses. Sue me as a retrograde, but as soon as I saw Anya making out with Spike I knew Xanya was dead.

 

[Icarium]

I actually care a lot about the author's intent , believe it or not. And try to clarify if I am 'getting it'. I am a kind of an audience that cares less about being in the majority - but a lot about understanding the actual context, and being in the same wavelength with the creator. Weird, eh ?

Majority? What's that got to do with anything? The majority of fans might have completely different impression than what the creator intended. I don't care what the majority thinks either. But yeah, we do seem to have opposite ways of enjoying fiction. I don't put much weight in writer's intent - if a writer needs to give an interview to clarify what they wanted to achieve with their work, to me this is a clear sign they have failed in getting their point across. Getting though to the audience is what being an artist is all about, any idiot can have lofty intentions of creating masterpieces dealing with the human condition, few can actually create such masterpieces.

It was a plot device of bringing about the transition from the regular Buffy-verse to the Fray-verse.

And that makes things better how exactly?

You seem to be a big adherent of show not tell principle... The Apo of S8 is all over the place in S9 - as well as its consequences.

By consequences you must mean the broken seed and Giles's death because I have seen no other consequences. It was supposed to be a global apocalypse which for the first time in the story was witnessed by (presumably) millions of people. If one hasn't read S8 they would most likely assume that Angel killed Giles, Buffy broke the Seed and no average Joe notice anything out of the ordinary that day.

Firstly, there was a major point made in #40 about her 'not been clinically depressed', secondly, I actually don't believe she had sex at that party, and thirdly I kind of sort of don't believe in a grand love that allows now and then for little slips like drunken sex with other guy happening at the same party where your significant other is present - and due to his especially strong sense of smell certain to know about the other party's transgression.

Who said anything about clinical depression? Mundane depression is bad enough. And are you seriously suggesting that drunk Buffy would consider the possibility of Spike smelling her having sex (can vampires even do that)? Even if she did, she might have thought "well, this will show him" and done it anyway.

Sue me as a retrograde, but as soon as I saw Anya making out with Spike I knew Xanya was dead.

Dead for you or for Joss? Because he wasn't done with Xanya yet, unfortunately.

 

[VisionGirl]

Come on people, let's me nice. Let's remember that debating is supposed to be fun, and not to take other fans' opposing opinions personally.

Read this. It's good for a laugh, and relates to what we've been discussing.

[MENTION=10218]Moscow Watcher[/MENTION], I accidentally repped you when I meant to rep Joan's link LOL.

 

[Dagenspear]

or why he wrote the script of the last season of Buffy's finale so that Buffy kisses Angel on the mouth for full five minutes or so and then promises him future together - and you will keep arguing it was all for PR.

Gee, thanks, thanks a lot. I was in s3 of BUFFY on my BUFFY and ANGEL rewatch and it just got thrown completely out of whack, because I had to jump ahead into s7's End Of Days and Chosen just so I could precisely disprove your claim. Thanks a whole bunch for the cold sweat I'm starting to break out in right now. Really, thanks for that. Buffy kisses Angel for 22 seconds, at the most. Not 5 minutes. Nor does she make any specific promise of any future with anyone, hence the cookie dough speech. She simply says that she does sometimes look ahead to the future. She doesn't say with whom she sees herself in said future. All she does in that scene is promise that she'll someday make a definitive choice.

 

[cordangel]

Vision Girl, SA said in an interview that #40 is supposed to take place six months after #39 and that between #40 and #1 has passed 'more than a month, less than a few'. So, almost seven, eight months...too many for an unnoticed mystical pregnancy (by the way, the mystical pregnancy seems to be a lot shorter, well, in Cordelia's case, anyway).

Icarium, you said "The powers that be seemed quite shocked that people took the glowypnol affair and Twangel so seriously. If Whedon was so serious about pursuing his vision rather than keeping the most popular characters safe he would have let Angel be executed at the end of S8, instead of letting him off the hook once again. Or at least wouldn't have allowed him to go back to being a hero immediately next season."No, for me and, I presume, for all the Angel fans, it is better 'Whedon would have let Angel out of this horrendous mess that was s8 .Doing so, he wouldn't have destroyed a beloved character in the process'.

Dorotea:'Buffy and Angel transcend everything'...really? At least, Joss should have handled the whole story better. I mean, think of that:
-Buffy sent Angel to Hell. He came back, pain and tears, and having him not recover completly, she said to him 'Things are changed now. I'm going to graduate and I have a new boy in my life' (Scott). A great love, indeed.
- She was desperate only because Angel left her. Before he left for LA and after he came back from Hell, she left him three times.
-After few months she jumped on Parker and if their story was just a one night sort of, it was only because Parker really wanted so. And while Angel passed an entire season mourning their lost love, she never ever mentioned him.
-Sanctuary: "I have someone in my life, now. Someone I love. You know why I love him? because I trust him". A great love speech, I suppose. Not to mention her jealously of Faith, when she has had a relationship with Riley for months!
And again, I think Joss made a great disservice at Angel bringing him back in s7. Think of that: he has just lost the woman he loves -Cordelia- and his son, and suddenly is reversed at Buffy boyfriend with that stupid cookie speech?

Truth is, Angel always regresses when Joss put him with Buffy... forgetting five seasons of his show, his relationship and so on. Season 8 is the most spectacular and terrible example of it.

 

[ladydorotea]

When looking at the timelines please remember that there is a majority of comic readers out there who never read spoilers, post on forums, participate in Q/A's etc. For them the timeline from whatever 'spoilery' answers by Dark Horse Chief Editor means nothing ( as it should). SA is not obliged to tell the truth, and it was proven many times that he considers Q/A's yet another way of promoting the comic. Whatever he says there does not have to be truth - and quite often it was not. The whole point is to screw with the fandom, which he does with glee. (Love the man personally - he is a lot of fun with his inscrutable demeanor. )

 

[Leeson]

Tonight on "The Passions Of Lady Summers"

* Buffy is pregnant but who is the father? Was she raped?

* Willow is leaving because we have no idea what to do with her. Will she play with Dracula's sword?

* Pixies! Zompires! Spike!

I kind of want Willow/Dracula, now. Because I really need another ship. (Is there anything, anywhere for them?)

There wasn't a single Spuffy or Bander or Buffy/Riley photoshoot, for example.

Yeah, there were. Not Spuffy, though I have no doubt it would have dominated if there had been a session for season seven. But Buffy/Xander was featured in the season one press, while Buffy/Riley was in season five press. Maybe not as much as Bangel, but nothing got as much as Bangel. They're the OTL, OTP, soul mates of the show.

*shrug* I hated most of the sessions, anyway, so I prefer to use magazine photoshoots to make my own shippy images. Also, I ship weird stuff, so...yeah. 😀

 

[white avenger]

As for the paternity of Buffy's baby, I honestly believe at this moment that Joss himself has no idea who it will turn out to be. Just like the Immortal in "The Girl In Question," he will be mentioned, but almost certainly never actually either named or shown. But I would much rather have that be the case than have another situation as lame as the deus ex dragonas that served as the explanation of how Angel, Spike, Illyria, and Gunn walked out of that alley alive in "After The Fall." That was just plain pitiful.

Besides which, it really doesn't matter who the father actually is, because it's almost a certainty that Spike's gonna wind up being the "Daddy." (Which, I can tell you all from experience, is both by far the greater responsibility, the harder job, and the highest honor) And who better for the job that the one man who Buffy chose and named her Champion in "Chosen." After all, he is just as much "The One" as Buffy is.

As for the baby itself, wouldn't it be the ultimate in ironies if the baby turned out to be Giles reincarnate, given the feelings between himself and Spike. Just imagine little Rupert's first spoken word being "Daddy," to describe Spike.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

[MENTION=11702]Leeson[/MENTION] - thank you for the link to Xander/Buffy promos. You can't imagine how hard it was to manip Buffy and Xander together by cutting off other members of the photoshoot and trying to maintain the laws of composition 🙂

Looks like Spuffy is the only Buffy ship that hasn't got any official promo pics. Luckily, we have enough creative people to make up for that oversight.

Also, I ship weird stuff, so...yeah

Sounds intriguing...

 

[Leeson]

[MENTION=11702]Leeson[/MENTION] - thank you for the link to Xander/Buffy promos. You can't imagine how hard it was to manip Buffy and Xander together by cutting off other members of the photoshoot and trying to maintain the laws of composition 🙂

Looks like Spuffy is the only Buffy ship that hasn't got any official promo pics. Luckily, we have enough creative people to make up for that oversight.

Also, I ship weird stuff, so...yeah

Sounds intriguing...

I'm always eager to help a fellow Buffy-fan further their manips! Trust me. *nod*😀 It is hard to patch things together like that, I agree.

Spuffy has some promos from season two and that is it. Travesty, but like I said, if they'd had a session for season 7, I've no doubt it would've made the Spuffies swoon. I content myself with photoshoots that i cut up and put together when I have the drive.

I ship everything, basically. Especially if it isn't canon. I like some mainstream/ish stuff (Tillow, Fander, Spuffy, Donnor, Frunn) and some fringe/ish stuff (Cordoyle!, Biles, Dander) and then I ship a LOT of weird things (Banya, Dawn/Jonathan, Lindsey/Dawn, Tara/spike, Tara/Lindsey...) and if you mention a ship I haven't considered, I probably start to ship it about 97 per cent of the time.

As for the paternity of Buffy's baby, I honestly believe at this moment that Joss himself has no idea who it will turn out to be.

I think he does. This is the man that foreshadows everything. I doubt he would impregnate his heroine without working out the details. Now, he might have two options or such, just to properly respond to fan reaction that DH will track and gauge, but I think Joss knows exactly where he wants to go with it.

Besides which, it really doesn't matter who the father actually is, because it's almost a certainty that Spike's gonna wind up being the "Daddy."

I do agree with this, however. They've been working the Spuffy angle far too much for it not to happen, especially when he's the most stable figure in her life, or at least painted that way.

As for the baby itself, wouldn't it be the ultimate in ironies if the baby turned out to be Giles reincarnate, given the feelings between himself and Spike. Just imagine little Rupert's first spoken word being "Daddy," to describe Spike.

I actually considered this. I wonder if they'll go with something like this, but then they've never really supported the idea of reincarnation before and I think it'd be odd for it to come up now.

As for the name Rupert... I love the name Rupert, but now I'm immensely curious about baby names. That was so hard when I was expecting, I can't imagine how Buffy will handle it.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

I ship everything, basically. Especially if it isn't canon. I like some mainstream/ish stuff (Tillow, Fander, Spuffy, Donnor, Frunn) and some fringe/ish stuff (Cordoyle!, Biles, Dander) and then I ship a LOT of weird things (Banya, Dawn/Jonathan, Lindsey/Dawn, Tara/spike, Tara/Lindsey...) and if you mention a ship I haven't considered, I probably start to ship it about 97 per cent of the time.

I admit, Lindsey/Dawn and Tara/Lindsey sound very strange. But, OTON, Christian Kane is so incredibly hot that any ship starring Lindsey is more or less viable... I remember reading a piece of trivia that Kane auditioned for Riley Finn before landing the role of Lindsey; I tried to cough up a plot for a fic about Lindsey becoming an Initiative soldier to spy on The Initiative for W&H, but failed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: Joss' plans. Here's what Allie said in January 2011:

Q: Are you already working on season 9 and if yes, do you already have an overall plan of the season - i.e., do you know the main events, settings, confrontations, the ending, etc.? And - at which point of working on season 8 Joss has completely changed his plan for season 9?

Scott: We are working on it, but it's still just taking shape. I'd say we know the themes and geography, we know where everyone is, and we know the basic directions for all the principle characters, and their chief obstacles. The order of those obstacles remains to be seen, to some degree. And I think we abandoned the initial Season 9 plan around issue #28 or so, something like that.

 

[ladydorotea]

Re: Joss' plans.

Buffy wearing Nikki's coat appeared in S8 issue 35 - the Twilight wardrobe change scenes. Way post #28. ( See Meltzer interview back then about the tableau where he specifically indicated he asked Jeanty for Nikki's clothes because 'it was selling the moment to me.' Also read his interviews describing how he and Joss went over discussing his arc years before it was out.

Angel wearing Mexican wrestler mask while standing in the graveyard in the middle of a night (Re : A beautiful sunset ) was first foreshadowed in Numero Cinco.

Giles death by vampire 'saving the world' was first foreshadowed in Lies my parents told me...