Do Buffy's uh... personal choices... bother anyone else?

Buffy is just so....strange. And I love that about her, like why did she sleep with a girl? especially when she's not gay. And why would she do it again? It's just so funny. I think it was in this thread that someone said that Buffy is like a friend, and I agree, with Buffy when she does stupid things.. I too kind of roll my eyes and smile and say, "oooh Buffy, I love you for who you are... but damnnnn"

Honestly Satsu does not bother me at all, I find them funny, cute and entertaining and would definitely accept them as a couple, my biggest "omg what happened to buffy since the finale" was when she lit the vamp on fire. I mean, I understand he's a vampire, but I just find it a little cruel. It was extremely badass, so it was a little cool, but I found it a bit worrisome. That does follow with her robbing banks though and such, which I also think is much more worrisome than her sleeping with a girl, which makes me wonder if some of the satsu complaints might be a little homophobic.
 
Pulse said:
Which makes me wonder if some of the satsu complaints might be a little homophobic.
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I'm not supportive of the Satsu and Buffy relationship and I'm not homophobic. It's kind of hard to be homophobic if you're a BTVS fan, don't you think so, my dear? It's not the fact that Buffy slept with a girl that bothered me the most (it did bug me a tad bit, but not that much), it was the fact that she was yet again USING someone who was in love with her and repeating her same mistake for the fourth time now. I'm sure that a lot of people find it fascinating just because Buffy slept with Satsu, who's a girl. However, I think if it'd been a boy named... Tom, or whatever. People would be a lot more upset about it, because it's the fact of what she's doing, not the person or the person's gender that she's doing. She's being a bad leader and basically leading the annoying girl on. To be honest with you, she's stopped being my role model at this point.
 
I love Buffy and the mistakes she did this season. People aren't computers, they make the same mistake time after time, you can't expect a character to change because he did some new things.
 
sosa lola said:
I love Buffy and the mistakes she did this season. People aren't computers, they make the same mistake time after time, you can't expect a character to change because he did some new things.
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*hugs you*
I like to think of Buffy in the season seven mindset where she matured, and after that, I do think of season eight as canon, as much as I don't like it, but still.... The same mistake for the fourth time now?
 
sorry I didn't mean it to sound so....judgmental... i kind of more meant that there is such a fixation on it, that it makes it seem a little sketchy, like would people so widespread care if it was a random male in her army. I can never know the answer to that, so it is kinda a moot point for me to say anything... and I didn't necessarily mean this forum, or you specifically, I kind of meant like how when you kind of canvas the responses, it's a really big deal, and I just meant that I thought that some of her other actions were really more of a big deal. So yea, once again sorry if I caused offense
 
Pulse said:
sorry I didn't mean it to sound so....judgmental... i kind of more meant that there is such a fixation on it, that it makes it seem a little sketchy, like would people so widespread care if it was a random male in her army. I can never know the answer to that, so it is kinda a moot point for me to say anything... and I didn't necessarily mean this forum, or you specifically, I kind of meant like how when you kind of canvas the responses, it's a really big deal, and I just meant that I thought that some of her other actions were really more of a big deal. So yea, once again sorry if I caused offense
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No problem, hun! 🙂 I think everyone who support the Buffy/Satsu ship are (mostly) ignoring the fact that Buffy is making yet the same mistake again. I don't know if it's because of the intrigue of their sexcapade because Satsu's a girl, but I find it to be very wrong. Again, it's not about the gender of the person to me, it's about what she's doing, the mistakes that she's repeating yet again after she seemed to have matured so far in season seven. Again with the gender-talk. If Buffy had slept with a boy/man instead of a girl/young woman, I think it probably would've been more controversial and that there would have been more of an uproar. I think the fact that Satsu's a girl seems to blind the fact for many people that Buffy's using someone yet again and that it's wrong.

AndrewCrossett said:
Like I said, it's a learning disability for her. Buffy has Relationship Dyslexia.
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Relationsihp dyslexia does not necessarily equal to learning disabilities in this type of situation. After Parker, Riley, and especially
Spike, Buffy really learned and knew that it was wrong to use someone that was in love with you (excluding Parker). What she's doing in season eight just tosses aside the maturity that she's gained in season seven and makes her look like a selfish and annoying leader.
 
Ellyce said:
I think everyone who support the Buffy/Satsu ship are (mostly) ignoring the fact that Buffy is making yet the same mistake again. I don't know if it's because of the intrigue of their sexcapade because Satsu's a girl, but I find it to be very wrong. Again, it's not about the gender of the person to me, it's about what she's doing, the mistakes that she's repeating yet again after she seemed to have matured so far in season seven. Again with the gender-talk. If Buffy had slept with a boy/man instead of a girl/young woman, I think it probably would've been more controversial and that there would have been more of an uproar. I think the fact that Satsu's a girl seems to blind the fact for many people that Buffy's using someone yet again and that it's wrong.
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Some of us, though, evaluate all of Buffy's words and actions during that whole story and come to the conclusion that Buffy really is in love with Satsu and is too scared and confused to admit it to herself.

We witnessed Buffy's physical attraction to her, and a great deal of what she says argues for an emotional attraction as well (sweetest thing ever...little bit less lonely...fine for me...one of the best nights of my life...)

But even if she was using Satsu, as Willow said, there was definitely some two-way usage going on there.

But, I've made all the points I wanted to make. I'm sure everyone will have their own views on the matter.

Amazing how some pencil lines on a piece of paper can get us so worked up, isn't it? :indiffere
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
There's really no valid excuse for her using someone like this again.
AndrewCrossett said:
Some of us, though, evaluate all of Buffy's words and actions during that whole story and come to the conclusion that Buffy really is in love with Satsu and is too scared and confused to admit it to herself.

But, I've made all the points I wanted to make. I'm sure everyone will have their own views on the matter.
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To each their own, I suppose. While I do respect Joss, I find the whole thing to be extremely forced, unorganic, and made to be a sales revenue. And I definitely don't think that Buffy was in love with Satsu. Sure, Satsu was infatuated with Buffy, but Buffy was just using her, which made it all the more unacceptable. All the things that were there in Buffy's relationships with Angel, Spike, and even Riley were just very empty in her story with Satsu.
 
C
Chase Summers
Joss needs to eat- so Buffy goes for the chicks, haha
I just am not on the whole "Buffy was using Satsu" thing. Buffy likes Satsu, like no doubt. You sometimes can like someone without it needing to go somewhere, hell you can like someone and realize "we're not ever getting married" but sometimes you have to do what you want to do.

Buffy and Satsu, is different than Buffy and Xander by a loooong shot, and it's somewhat similar to Spike, but more friendly, but even then, you saw where Buffy and Spike went. Let's not get into the whole does Buffy love Spike debate, but he at least is a defining person in her life. I think Buffy likes Satsu, maybe not sexually completely, but there is at least something about her that Buffy identifies with, and wants to be around. This isn't, "here is some girl I am going to do" it's more, "wow here is this person and this is something I'd like to do."

I mean, do you think you're going to marry every person you date? Personally I do not think Buffy is gay, I do not even think she'd have a serious relationship with a girl, but she obviously enjoys having sex with women, or at least this one woman. And about the whole, I'm not gay, I don't love you thing, I kind of suspect that every person who does something homosexual says this at first. In one of my psyc courses we learned about this, and there's this whole process for gay people where they go through self-identification and accepting themselves. I only say this to somewhat validate the claim that you cannot necessarily take everything Buffy says at face value.

I honestly think Buffy lacks in the whole self-awareness category of life.
 
Pulse said:
I just am not on the whole "Buffy was using Satsu" thing.
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Well said sweetie! 🙂 The big thing for me was the using part, not that Satsu was a girl or whatever.

Pulse said:
Buffy and Satsu, is different than Buffy and Xander by a loooong shot, and it's somewhat similar to Spike, but more friendly, but even then, you saw where Buffy and Spike went. Let's not get into the whole does Buffy love Spike debate, but he at least is a defining person in her life.
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With Buffy and Satsu's relationship, you can see that it's the whole-using people thing. With Riley and especially Spike, she really learned. She went through a lot in season seven and matured so incredibly, that last moment in "Chosen" always makes me so proud of her whenever I watch it.
 
Pulse said:
And about the whole, I'm not gay, I don't love you thing, I kind of suspect that every person who does something homosexual says this at first. In one of my psyc courses we learned about this, and there's this whole process for gay people where they go through self-identification and accepting themselves. I only say this to somewhat validate the claim that you cannot necessarily take everything Buffy says at face value.

I honestly think Buffy lacks in the whole self-awareness category of life.
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Exactly.

I have many, many LGBT friends, and I would say at least half of them considered themselves heterosexual in the beginning. Many of them had no idea they were anything else until they met a certain person...

I can also say from observation that the world of sexual identities is much more like a busy corridor than like a series of closed rooms with convenient labels on the door.

Once again IMO:

Clearly, Buffy's actions and thoughts are not those of a "straight" girl. The usual definition of "straight girl" is "a girl who does not repeatedly have sex with another woman and enjoy every second of it." She obviously is still interested in men too (notwithstanding Willow's teasing about the lameness of her Daniel Craig fantasy). Her resistance has more to do with concern for Satsu than not wanting to be with her. (The most telling line in their conversation was Buffy saying, re: their relationship, "It's fine for me...it's bad for you.")
 
B
Blair Waldorf-Bass
I don't think homosexuality or her sexuality is the issue here.
I don't think homosexuality is the issue here. If Joss'd given us hints earlier that yeah, Buffy's attracted to girls as well, it might've been a lot less more out of character. Yes, there's all of what we can choose to read with Faith (which I personally find awesome). But her sleeping with a girl ISN'T the issue. It's the using people thing. And her having a stressful year or having a learning disorder is not a valid excuse for what she's done.
 
Pulse said:
I honestly think Buffy lacks in the whole self-awareness category of life.
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Maybe the whole thing was just this metaphor to underscore how far from home and how mixed up Buffy is right now. Joss loooves using sex a metaphor, and hey, if it's outrageous and sells more books, even better. I mean maybe Buffy sleeping with Satsu isn't meant to say "hey, Buffy's gay now!" but it's meant to say "It's a whole new ballgame now, and Buffy isn't sure how to play."
 
Chase Summers said:
Maybe the whole thing was just this metaphor to underscore how far from home and how mixed up Buffy is right now. Joss loooves using sex a metaphor, and hey, if it's outrageous and sells more books, even better. I mean maybe Buffy sleeping with Satsu isn't meant to say "hey, Buffy's gay now!" but it's meant to say "It's a whole new ballgame now, and Buffy isn't sure how to play."
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I personally find it to be a horrendous marketing device. The messages it sends are a bit disturbing. And while yes, I understand that Joss likes to use sex as a metaphor, there's a time when you draw a line. There's no excuse for Buffy sleeping with Satsu that's good and valid. She's lonely, it's in-character, she's had a busy and stressful year, she's attracted - they all don't make the cut. Why? Because Buffy is yet again using another person after she learned from this mistake that she's made and been in three times before.
 
C
Chase Summers
haha, I can't remember if you and I agree or disagree at this point! LOL
Ah okay I get more where you're coming from now. At first I thought you had the opinion of "Stupid Joss makes Buffy do stupid things" but really you're thinking "gah stupid buffy". I can totally get on that train if that's what you're saying, cause Buffy is totally a little dissapointing in some ways. My POV is just I hate when people debate things that are about the writers doing things they don't like because I think that's a waste of time because the writers can't take it back, honestly I just dislike "out of character" comments
 
Pulse said:
Ah okay I get more where you're coming from now. At first I thought you had the opinion of "Stupid Joss makes Buffy do stupid things" but really you're thinking "gah stupid buffy". I can totally get on that train if that's what you're saying, cause Buffy is totally a little dissapointing in some ways. My POV is just I hate when people debate things that are about the writers doing things they don't like because I think that's a waste of time because the writers can't take it back, honestly I just dislike "out of character" comments
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*laughs* Glad you got it, sweetie. 😉 Yeah, Buffy is very disappointing this season. There's really a line that she has to draw and she's really lacking it right now.
 
Ellyce said:
I think it's really something that would only happen in comic-book form and not in how season 8 would've been if it had been televised. Why? For one thing, Joss spent, what? A couple of years on this comic. I think if they'd done a television version of season eight, that idea probably would not have crossed his mind during that point in time. Also, during the time of the year it was on air? Yeah, that would've been a great way for critics and fans to rally for the season. I hate to say it but their night together was not at all organic to the plot. It was forced, it was awkward, it was disgusting, and moreover, it all seemed like a marketing campaign to get people to read the comics and to stir up so controversy in the news.
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Wow, is this a popular thread...

I've been hesitant to talk about this for fear of rebuttal but -

I do feel that storyline to be awkward, forced, and out of character for Buffy. I just do...it just didn't seem like something our little straight-as-an-arrow Buff would do 🙂
 
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