Do You Believe In Dragons?

[white avenger]

Nah, me either, unless I'm letting my fantasy persona run amok, but I found this on Youtube:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FIDeOOL52Q"]The Last Dragon | A Fantasy Made Real - YouTube[/ame]

that I thought was a fun bit of fantasy presented in the form of a documentary. It's movie length (90 minutes plus) so be prepared for that if you decide to watch it.

 

[Robb Stark]

Sadly, no, not in any form beyond the Komodo. Still, I do love reading about dragons in literature (Game of Thrones!) and watching them on T.V. and in film. They're pretty awesome.

 

[Blaze]

I got mine tied in my backward... he's shedding a lot of scales lately because of the spring so he's not aloud in the house.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

There's something you don't see everyday, the words literature and Game of Thrones in the same sentence.
I liked the video, especially that bit about the power to weight ratio meaning it couldn't fly. The guy had obviously never heard of the English Bumble Bee. According to the known laws it cannot fly but it does.
So the Dragon could not exist, it's a bit like saying that life exists on other planets.
Or that life exists at the bottom of the ocean, in acid or in places that never get the benefits of the sun. Oh wait, life does exist in places where the sun has never shone, and at the bottom of the ocean and in acid.
What was the name of that flying dinosaur, said to be the initial form of the bird. A bit like Neanderthal's to human beings; what is the link?
Possibly an early form of the Kimodo dragon had wings and breathed fire but it didn't need them to exist, so evolution kicked in? So in todays times it doesn't have wings or breathe fire? And thereby the legend of the dragon could exist, the fantasy realm only existed with its size.

 

[Kairos]

There's something you don't see everyday, the words literature and Game of Thrones in the same sentence.
I liked the video, especially that bit about the power to weight ratio meaning it couldn't fly. The guy had obviously never heard of the English Bumble Bee. According to the known laws it cannot fly but it does.
So the Dragon could not exist, it's a bit like saying that life exists on other planets.
Or that life exists at the bottom of the ocean, in acid or in places that never get the benefits of the sun. Oh wait, life does exist in places where the sun has never shone, and at the bottom of the ocean and in acid.
What was the name of that flying dinosaur, said to be the initial form of the bird. A bit like Neanderthal's to human beings; what is the link?
Possibly an early form of the Kimodo dragon had wings and breathed fire but it didn't need them to exist, so evolution kicked in? So in todays times it doesn't have wings or breathe fire? And thereby the legend of the dragon could exist, the fantasy realm only existed with its size.

The bumblebee thing is a myth.

Also, life on Earth can't exist without sunlight; for instance, the aquatic ecosystem depends on plankton, which requires light although some creatures which eat the plankton may never see it.

The link between birds and dinosaurs that you're thinking of is the archeopteryx, but as much as it demonstrates the evolutionary process, a creature still can't get from fire-breathing and flying to a large earthbound lizard on evolution alone.

No big! The real world is awesome and dragons are awesome, and there's no need for them to intersect.

 

[Robb Stark]

There's something you don't see everyday, the words literature and Game of Thrones in the same sentence.

Right, because one of the most critically acclaimed and highest selling fantasy series of this generation is SUCH an insult to literature...🙄

 

[Ethan Reigns]

The Bible is full of stories of dragons.

Isaiah 34:13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.

Jeremiah 49:33 And Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons, and a desolation for ever: there shall no man abide there, nor any son of man dwell in it.

also of note:

Isaiah 34:7 And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

So we not only have dragons, we have unicorns. It must have been crowded on the ark.

 

[white avenger]

So we not only have dragons, we have unicorns. It must have been crowded on the ark.

No, Sadly, the unicorns literally missed the boat. Or, more accurately, the ark.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QFvKsvmnfM"]Folk song Irish Rovers The Unicorn song - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Now if I was being argumentative I would say that unless it was written that Unicorns didn't exist in those times I might suggest that they did. Hmm, oh I did say it, I must have been argumentative. But it was done in the best possible taste.
What date was the ark?
The sightings of the Unicorn, as documented by many notable people were made when writing was more commonplace

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

PS: How did the Unicorns keep warm? They sat by fires started by the Dragons.

 

[Kairos]

It's a myth that science can't explain why bumblebees can't fly (already linked the Snopes article on it). Life underground which isn't touched by the sun still depends on life which does require the sun. George RR Martin is one of the greatest writers of our time. Mythology and reality are different.

 

[white avenger]

Now if I was being argumentative I would say that unless it was written that Unicorns didn't exist in those times I might suggest that they did. Hmm, oh I did say it, I must have been argumentative. But it was done in the best possible taste.
What date was the ark?
The sightings of the Unicorn, as documented by many notable people were made when writing was more commonplace

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

PS: How did the Unicorns keep warm? They sat by fires started by the Dragons.

Here's your unicorn!

http://www.anunseenworld.com/areunicornsreal.html

Now, where's my dragon?

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Here's your unicorn!

http://www.anunseenworld.com/areunicornsreal.html

Now, where's my dragon?

Interesting that they say the unicorn is mentioned six times but they do not include Isaiah 34:7. Maybe it is seven or more times. I have no explanation for the dragon.

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=7336]ILLYRIAN[/MENTION],

ILLYRIAN agrees: Being critically acclaimed nor being a best seller has little to do with most literature. Much of what Dickens wrote didn't have a critic even looked at it when it was written. Wuthering Heights gained acclaim years after it was written.

So...what exactly is your standard then? If it isn't what the public thinks about it, and if it isn't what the critics think of it then...what is it? By that logic nothing published today can be considered "literature". And using works that came out over a century ago, which are not representative at all, as some sort of selective "proof" that sales and critical acclaim don't mean anything is just silly. I mean, are you then saying that people loving a book series today means it can't become a classic? Come on.

-----------------------

Anyways, back to the original thread topic, what are some of your guys' favorite dragons in fiction? I really like the way dragons are handled in ASOIAF and in the GOT television series. They're really cool looking creatures. I just saw the trailer for the new Disney movie Maleficent and the dragon in that looks amazing.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Robb Stark
how can I say this, I don't compare Harry Potter, Vampire Diaries or Game of Thrones with works by Dickens, Bronte, Hardy. You might I don't.
Just because a lot of people buy a book that doesn't make it good
Just because a critic says a book is good that doesn't make the book good. Saying books that came out over a century ago are not representive at all of literature.
My saying sales in the millions or critics saying nice things has little to do with a book being regarded as good is not the same as you putting that is a silly thing to say and I did not say anything like a modern book series can't be a classic. And then you put come on.
If you don't agree with what I wrote fair enough. Why did you need to make up stuff and try to infer I wrote or meant it....

white avenger,
the bible has seven mentions of dragon as for Unicorns:
Felix Fabri saw one near mount Sinai in the mid 1400's
Apollonius of Tyana saw several in India in the first C. AD
Sir Francis Calton saw a few in South Africa inthe mid 1900's
In 1224 Genghis Khan wrote of seeing one.
In 1553 Pope Clement gave a unicorns horn to Henry 2nd King of France
Philip 2nd of Spain had 12 unicorns horns
Mary Queen of Scots owned a unicorn's horn
Queen Elizabeth 1st of England owned one horn, it was given to her by the man who killed the unicorn a Captain Martin Frobisher of the English navy in 1576.
George Cuvier found a dead one in 1827.
In 1933 Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to make one.
If they are to be found today I'd suggest looking in India - Ethiopia.

As heard in the National Canadian Zoo in Vancouver,
Is my arse draggin, of course it is all of you is dragon.

 

[white avenger]

white avenger,
the bible has seven mentions of dragon as for Unicorns:
Felix Fabri saw one near mount Sinai in the mid 1400's
Apollonius of Tyana saw several in India in the first C. AD
Sir Francis Calton saw a few in South Africa inthe mid 1900's
In 1224 Genghis Khan wrote of seeing one.
In 1553 Pope Clement gave a unicorns horn to Henry 2nd King of France
Philip 2nd of Spain had 12 unicorns horns
Mary Queen of Scots owned a unicorn's horn
Queen Elizabeth 1st of England owned one horn, it was given to her by the man who killed the unicorn a Captain Martin Frobisher of the English navy in 1576.
George Cuvier found a dead one in 1827.
In 1933 Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to make one.
If they are to be found today I'd suggest looking in India - Ethiopia.

Hey, I never said that I didn't believe in unicorns. As far as I'm concerned, they're as real as big foot and the yeti.

 

[Robb Stark]

Robb Stark
how can I say this, I don't compare Harry Potter, Vampire Diaries or Game of Thrones with works by Dickens, Bronte, Hardy. You might I don't.
Just because a lot of people buy a book that doesn't make it good
Just because a critic says a book is good that doesn't make the book good. Saying books that came out over a century ago are not representive at all of literature.
My saying sales in the millions or critics saying nice things has little to do with a book being regarded as good is not the same as you putting that is a silly thing to say and I did not say anything like a modern book series can't be a classic. And then you put come on.
If you don't agree with what I wrote fair enough. Why did you need to make up stuff and try to infer I wrote or meant it....

You've just posted some really strange stuff. You ridiculed a series I really like, and one that has garnered almost universal praise since hitting the mainstream, and then completely neglected to answer the question I posed to you. It's weird. I asked you quite clearly what your standard for exceptional literature is, after you sniped at me mind you, and then you...didn't answer. You offered no points about the ASOIAF series, nothing to back up your claim, you just repeated a bunch of stuff I said. I don't even know what you're trying to say here:

Saying books that came out over a century ago are not representive at all of literature.

I mean, that's just what I said. I don't think you are, but are you agreeing with me?

And you're deflecting. Harry Potter is a children's series, and the Vampire Diaries is a teenage series. They are both completely different genres targeting completely different audiences than ASOIAF, and therefore they aren't comparable. You're attempting to lump popular series together to bolster some sort of point, when the comparison is totally negligible. Why are you doing that? It's a cheap and transparent form of arguing. And now you're trying to play the victim card, as if I'm bullying you or something. If you're going to be snarky, expect people to return the fire.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

First, if I choose not to answer one of your questions that is my choice, I don't have to.
It has garnered almost universal praise has it? How many books are in the series 4 or 5, so if each is a NY times #1 bestseller at say 25m copies sold in a country of 270m people, that is not getting the universal praise you claim. Then there is the rest of the world, so even if sales were as big as one of the Harry Potter books that sold 95 to 100m copies the series is still a bit short on the universal praise you claimed.
What you wrote about what I wrote, think of the word quote.
And the second quote you did, how to take what I wrote and make it completely out of context. So I hope you don't mind if I do exactly the same sort of thing. So considering we are talking about the quality of literature in the books
Its weird. Your words, and yes I agree.
What is ASOIAF? I figured the ASOI to be A Song Of Ice but I've no idea what the AF stands for.
When you say I'm attempting to lump popular series together to bolster some sort of point.. What are you on about because I wasn't.
And now I am playing the victim card am I? Where?
Then you say I'm being snarky. Really, I'm not being snarky about it as I only read a few pages and didn't like the way it was written so I didn't bother reading any more.

 

[Robb Stark]

First, if I choose not to answer one of your questions that is my choice, I don't have to.

True, but then you're not countering anything I've said, you're basically just stuffing your fingers in your ears and bleating. If I criticize a portion of your post in a debate, and you can't answer it, then you're on the losing side of the argument.

It has garnered almost universal praise has it? How many books are in the series 4 or 5, so if each is a NY times #1 bestseller at say 25m copies sold in a country of 270m people, that is not getting the universal praise you claim. Then there is the rest of the world, so even if sales were as big as one of the Harry Potter books that sold 95 to 100m copies the series is still a bit short on the universal praise you claimed.

...No, I mean critical acclaim. You misunderstood what I wrote. And even if I was just talking sales, are you seriously contesting the sales power of ASOIAF? Name me another contemporary fantasy series, that doesn't target a children's audience, that has sold like this one.

And the second quote you did, how to take what I wrote and make it completely out of context. So I hope you don't mind if I do exactly the same sort of thing. So considering we are talking about the quality of literature in the books
Its weird. Your words, and yes I agree.

I took nothing out of context. Like...at all. I said I didn't understand what you wrote. Once again, you just twisted what I said. Your writing was not in anyway articulate, and I didn't understand what you meant. What's out of context about that?

Huge lol at your...um...wit though. Bitingly clever.

What is ASOIAF? I figured the ASOI to be A Song Of Ice but I've no idea what the AF stands for.

A Song of Ice and Fire. The show just calls the series Game of Thrones, but the book series title is longer.

When you say I'm attempting to lump popular series together to bolster some sort of point.. What are you on about because I wasn't.

Yes you were. Bringing the quality of the Harry Potter and Vampire Diaries franchises into the discussion is lumping them together.

And now I am playing the victim card am I? Where?

Your whole previous post was wounded, when it was you who began this whole thing.

Then you say I'm being snarky. Really, I'm not being snarky about it as I only read a few pages and didn't like the way it was written so I didn't bother reading any more.

Only because you were. Well, yes, I figured you didn't know much about it when you didn't know what it was called. Perfectly fine that you don't like it, but it's somewhat interesting that you get, yes, snarky about a series that so many look upon as a literary masterpiece when you...read a few pages.

 

[white avenger]

Anyways, back to the original thread topic, what are some of your guys' favorite dragons in fiction? I really like the way dragons are handled in ASOIAF and in the GOT television series. They're really cool looking creatures. I just saw the trailer for the new Disney movie Maleficent and the dragon in that looks amazing.

Norton's Dragon Riders Of Pern series comes to mind, but I haven't read any of them since high school, and I'm not even sure that they're still in publication. And, of course, the incomparable Lin Carter and his Thongor Of Lemuria series, though he sort of cheated, since his dragons were actually dinosaurs. There were dragons in Heinlein's "Glory Road," and in Poul Andersen's "Three Hearts And Three Lions," two of my all time favorite books.