Do you like Kennedy?

Do you like Kennedy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 25.9%

  • No

    Votes: 25 46.3%

  • I don't care

    Votes: 15 27.8%
  • Total voters
    54
Okay that “listen” may have come off as aggressive that wasn’t the intent of so that’s just how I talk.
 
Honestly I’m fine with characters having douchey moments as long as they reflect and grow from them. Is Buffy a douche at times in S7? Of course she is, but it’s part of her learning curve and development as a leader. We see and hear her reflect on how she’s been as she’s been terrified she was going to lose them so cut herself off from them and we see her back to being Buffy Buffy in End of Days/Chosen. She’s confronted, reflects on it and adapts. Like nearly every single character on the show does.

Obviously Buffy being the lead is always going to get more spotlight on her self reflection but we got NOTHING from Kennedy. Not just Kennedy but Robin Wood as well and it’s why I just can’t tolerate either character - zero self reflection, zero humility. I just can’t warm to that. Like we don’t even see Kennedy considering maybes she ought to be a bit nicer to people following Chloe’s death. Compare Kennedy trying to suck up to Buffy in End of days by trying to throw Faith under the bus compared to Faith taking all the blame and clearly struggling when Buffy tells her she did nothing wrong. Buffy is right that Faith isn’t to blame for the bomb attack, it was a plan that went wrong - a shame but it happens but Faith still has that ability to reflect and consider if she could have done things differently. Kennedy doesn’t have that, even in the next episode she’s bragging about being ‘the first to call Buffy out’ and the lack of humility she has is kind of shocking. Her entire arc is just her being ‘lol I’m a brat’. She’s not awful to people because of any insecurities or vulnerabilities. There’s no depth there, she’s just awful because she’s an awful person

I would in an odd kind of way like her and Willow to stay together because I think Willow is a pretty toxic partner and I wouldn’t like her to drag down a nicer person with her schtick
 
I definitely get why people have issues with her, I personally like that she calls Buffy out for reasons I’ve stated, the show was built on questioning authority figures now Buffy is the authority figure. The story is told through Buffy’s perspective but honestly by the time some of this stuff goes down from the perspective of the potentials they would almost seem to be stupid for not questioning Buffy. She’s a brat but she serves a purpose and to be honest almost nobody else calls Buffy on her crap so I respect her for that.

While I find her behavior cringy I do agree that Willow herself is an extremely toxic partner, maybe that’s why I never cared enough to get angry on Willow’s behalf, although I was somewhat uncomfortable watching that but I can apply that to most Buffyverse relationships.
 
KaitKait said:
I definitely get why people have issues with her, I personally like that she calls Buffy out for reasons I’ve stated, the show was built on questioning authority figures now Buffy is the authority figure. The story is told through Buffy’s perspective but honestly by the time some of this stuff goes down from the perspective of the potentials they would almost seem to be stupid for not questioning Buffy. She’s a brat but she serves a purpose and to be honest almost nobody else calls Buffy on her crap so I respect her for that.

While I find her behavior cringy I do agree that Willow herself is an extremely toxic partner, maybe that’s why I never cared enough to get angry on Willow’s behalf, although I was somewhat uncomfortable watching that but I can apply that to most Buffyverse relationships.
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Really? I think Buffy gets called out more than any main character in the Buffyverse, certainly more than any BTVS main. It feels different from Kennedy because she’s so self serving and the stuff she’s calling out she has no real understanding about
 
In Season Seven, she needs called out and she just shuts anyone down who questions her like Giles when he brings up the issue of having a triggered Spike without a chip running around, she’s so convinced she can do no wrong and that she’s always right. I love her character but I don’t like her very much in Season 7. I feel like the growth we finally get from her at the end is so minimal and it still feels like she never learns that she isn’t always right and can do no wrong. We did get some reflection on her self isolation but I didn’t think it was enough. Through out the series other characters should have been called out far more though….looking at you Willow.

Most of what I said is for Season 7 only not the whole series.
 
Faded90 said:
Like we don’t even see Kennedy considering maybes she ought to be a bit nicer to people following Chloe’s death.
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Agreed. I think the first was telling the truth about Kennedy being partially responsible for Chloe's suicide because the truth would be more "fun" than a lie in that instance. It would've been nice to see Kennedy at least question whether or not she did have a part to play, even if another character reassured her that she shouldn't blame herself. It at least shows some reflection on Kennedy's part about her behaviour. Instead she doesn't even bat an eyelid and just carries on behaving like the entitled brat she is.

Compare Kennedy trying to suck up to Buffy in End of days by trying to throw Faith under the bus compared to Faith taking all the blame and clearly struggling when Buffy tells her she did nothing wrong. Buffy is right that Faith isn’t to blame for the bomb attack, it was a plan that went wrong - a shame but it happens but Faith still has that ability to reflect and consider if she could have done things differently.
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The vineyard wasn't Buffy's fault either. The group had a plan, they had a plan for other scenarios too eg it was a trap so half went in whilst half stayed out as back up, it was a bait and switch so Willow and Giles stayed behind at the house to protect those potentials whilst the others went to the vineyard etc. Where the plan went wrong is they weren't expecting Caleb to be hopped up on evil juice to the point where he took out both Buffy and Spike easily. With the two strongest fighters suddenly out of play, the rest of the group panicked and fell apart.

Kennedy doesn’t have that, even in the next episode she’s bragging about being ‘the first to call Buffy out’ and the lack of humility she has is kind of shocking. Her entire arc is just her being ‘lol I’m a brat’. She’s not awful to people because of any insecurities or vulnerabilities. There’s no depth there, she’s just awful because she’s an awful person
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Her admitting she's a brat actually annoys me more than if she hadn't admitted it because it means she's fully aware that her behaviour is awful yet she doesn't care one iota to remedy it.

I would in an odd kind of way like her and Willow to stay together because I think Willow is a pretty toxic partner and I wouldn’t like her to drag down a nicer person with her schtick
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Willow doesn't deserve that, nobody deserves to be punished with having Kennedy as a girlfriend.
 
Kennedy did feel guilty, Buffy told her that it wasn’t her fault. To be fair almost every character warned Buffy that the vineyard was likely a trap but honestly Buffy and Faith should have done a better recon mission, they turned around and left the second they saw where the bringers were going they both know better than that.
 
KaitKait said:
In Season Seven, she needs called out and she just shuts anyone down who questions her like Giles when he brings up the issue of having a triggered Spike without a chip running around, she’s so convinced she can do no wrong and that she’s always right. I love her character but I don’t like her very much in Season 7. I feel like the growth we finally get from her at the end is so minimal and it still feels like she never learns that she isn’t always right and can do no wrong. We did get some reflection on her self isolation but I didn’t think it was enough. Through out the series other characters should have been called out far more though….looking at you Willow.

Most of what I said is for Season 7 only not the whole series.
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I didn’t say that she didn’t not need calling out. Just that she’s kind of consistently called out and she’s pretty much the only one who does. Buffy learning she’s not always right wasn’t the problem though, the thing with Empty Places/Touched is that she IS right. Buffy does what she always does after a confrontation, entirely blames herself and how wrong she is. Acknowledging fault has never been Buffy’s issue. I don’t disagree about not listening in LMPTM, it’s one of Buffy’s most stupid moments and I definitely acknowledge that.

Buffy’s biggest issue late S7 is not trusting her instincts. S7 isn’t a cuddly story where ‘team work is the best work’ and they become a democracy. It’s about Buffy becoming the leader she wants to be instead of being the leader she thinks she’s supposed to be. Buffy’s instinct tells her not to take the girls to test them but she listens to Wood and does it anyway. If she’d trusted her instinct things wouldn’t have went as badly as it did. Her instinct tells her to go back to the vineyard and she is right. Obviously the damage has been done with the others and they won’t go, fine their choice. Her instinct ends up saving Faith and the others when The First tells her they’re in trouble, she could have ignored it and assumed it was a trap but she doesn’t - ironically the thing that she’s slated for in Dirty Girls is what saves their lives.

Does Buffy make mistakes in S7? Yes she does, big ones. But acknowledging her faults and conceding defeat isn’t her problem. Particularly because she actually IS right. Buffy does learn a lesson in Empty Places, it’s just not the one the others were expecting her to

Sorry I’ve digressed from the topic. Back on topic - I hate Kennedy
 
KaitKait said:
Kennedy did feel guilty, Buffy told her that it wasn’t her fault. To be fair almost every character warned Buffy that the vineyard was likely a trap but honestly Buffy and Faith should have done a better recon mission, they turned around and left the second they saw where the bringers were going they both know better than that.
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Buffy told her it wasn’t Faiths fault, because Kennedy wanted to throw her under the bus. I agree the recon did seem pretty lax. I think the problem was that as we know it was the scythe that was there they were never going to get evidence of it. They probably could have reconned all night and never saw anything
 
I do not blame any character for questioning Buffy in thinking the Caleb would helpfully tell her where the scythe is. It’s why Season 7 is a hard one for me. If I was a character I would absolutely think she was crazy at that point. It also absolutely felt like the writers did punish the the characters who had the audacity to question Buffy’s instincts from Giles in Lies My Parents Told Me to the Potentials in Empty Places/Touched. Spike didn’t kill again but it had nothing to do with Buffy’s instincts as the scythe being in the vineyard was some of the worst writing in the show. She always thought she was right before that she didn’t learn anything of value.

The Slayer though is a metaphor for growing up defeating the obstacles of being an adult and questioning authority, such as Giles, the Counsel, Snyder, Wesley, the Mayor, Walsh, the Initiative…some are strait forward but most are metaphors the Slayer questions and challenges which is why the next generation of Slayers need to be the ones calling Buffy out and not just falling in line, it wouldn’t be true to what the show is as Buffy has NEVER been a solder and as never allowed herself to be treated as such.

I was referring to Get it Done when I was talking about Kennedy’s guilt and Buffy telling her it wasn’t her fault. The show didn’t spend too much time on it but I think that’s because they had too much going on that season. They also never discussed the events of Empty Places when Buffy returns home so not a lot of follow through in general.
 
Faded90 said:
but she listens to Wood and does it anyway.
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Then he stabs her in the back during the mutiny. I think he set Buffy up as revenge for her not letting him kill Spike. He didn't expect things to go as badly as they did but he wanted her to look bad. Note how quickly Buffy fell off the pedestal Wood had put her on when she didn't let him get his own way.
 
KaitKait said:
I do not blame any character for questioning Buffy in thinking the Caleb would helpfully tell her where the scythe is. It’s why Season 7 is a hard one for me. If I was a character I would absolutely think she was crazy at that point. It also absolutely felt like the writers did punish the the characters who had the audacity to question Buffy’s instincts from Giles in Lies My Parents Told Me to the Potentials in Empty Places/Touched. Spike didn’t kill again but it had nothing to do with Buffy’s instincts as the scythe being in the vineyard was some of the worst writing in the show. She always thought she was right before that she didn’t learn anything of value.

The Slayer though is a metaphor for growing up defeating the obstacles of being an adult and questioning authority, such as Giles, the Counsel, Snyder, Wesley, the Mayor, Walsh, the Initiative…some are strait forward but most are metaphors the Slayer questions and challenges which is why the next generation of Slayers need to be the ones calling Buffy out and not just falling in line, it wouldn’t be true to what the show is as Buffy has NEVER been a solder and as never allowed herself to be treated as such.


Edit to add that her behavior post Empty Places seemed more self pitying than anything else…..kicking a guy out of his own home in the middle of the night in a demon infested town because “that’s what all the cool kids are doing.”
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No, because not only did she have an abrasive personality, but they shoved her with Willow (one of my favs) just so she wouldn’t end the series single. Their personalities were really ill matched, and through out their “relationship” Kennedy was super pushy and rude. And the writers tried to make that seem like a good thing. If they wanted Willow in a relationship at the end, don’t kill Tara!
 
Oh how I love her Kennedyestness the absolute mostest! She is the perfection of the one that Willow needed after the meeky Tara. Out of all of Willow’s lovelies it’s the Kennedy one that gets My highest vote!! Only the radiant Aluwyn comes close to her awesomeness! Let’s give a big HOOOT HOOOT HOOORRRAYY for all of the gloriousnessity that she brings to our beloved show
 
Stake fodder
Stake fodder
Is it still April 1 where you are? 😂 🤣
Not really. I feel like there isn't much depth to her character. She came off as rude and irritating to me. I don't think she fit with Willow very well personality and value wise. She was very forgettable unless someone mentions her.
 
Are you kidding? I absolutely love Kennedy! How can you not?

I mean, just look at this awesome romantic moment between her and Willow! 😍

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Adorable. ❤️

In all seriousness, she is a forced love interest for a character that does not need one. Losing Tara only one season before having a poorly written substitution like Kennedy thrown at Willow is just so tacky. It only gets worse in the Seasonal comics, where they’re forced to be together.

Her character is just the worst, she’s completely forced, and she’s an awful substitute for Tara. Easily one of the worst characters of the show.
 
N
NoShip
Yea.....Oh! Wait! Sorry! I thought you were discussing Buffy & Riley. So. So. Sorry. 🙄
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