Do you wish we had more vampire big bads?

[Joshua]

Am I the only one who didn't like the fact that we only had 2 seasons where vampires were big bads? Drusilla, Angelus, Spike and The Master were great Vampire Big Bads. They were much better than The First, The Trio, Glory or Adam imo.

I wish we had more vampires that were a threat rather than weaklings who get staked by the Slayer and vampire slayer wannabes

 

[Blaze]

I think the problem is that vampires are really not that strong. The Masters might have been an exception because of his age, and even then Buffy would have kicked his ass if she had met him in s4-5 instead of s1. Angelus himself was weaker than Buffy and only lasted this long because of Buffy's feeling. Spike, Dru and Darla pretty much were all weaker than Buffy. After s2, they got a bit stuck because vampires were just not good enough against the slayer. s7 sort of did go back to the vampire idea though, so that was cool. There was just some execution problems.

 

[thetopher]

Maybe not 'Big Bad' vampires exactly- those should be something special or unique, like an ancient 'Master' vampire, or a vampire who's so badass he's killed a couple of slayers already, or like a vampire who knows you so intimately and who's cruelty is legendary. 🙂

Mostly Big Bad's should be something intriguing, so they can hold the audiences attention over several episodes. This doesn't always work, but that was usually down to the execution of the idea rather than the idea itself.

For example the idea of Adam (a horrific demon abomination created by meddling science) was much better than what we actually got.

Or the Trio- three smart but less powerful 'normals' against a superpowered Buffy was interesting in theory but some people didn't like the resolution.
[I'll give you a proper, deadly Trio- Ethan Rayne, Amy Madison and Rack. They'd f*** Buffy and co. right up.]


But back on topic- I wish we'd gotten more memorable one-shot vampires like Mr. Trick, Lyle Gorch, Kralick or Sunday- vamps who had real character and screen presence that would cause trouble for an episode or few before getting staked.
The last 'memorable' vampire of note that Buffy fought was Dracula right at the start of S5, (at a stretch you could argue Harmony but not really...) so it would've been refreshing to have some colourful vamp to liven up the terminal angst of S6, and one would've fitted in well with the 'back to MotW' of S7. That's two seasons without any unique deadly, evil vampire.

Really, the problem with the Turok-Han in S7 is that it was so demonic it was basically just like any other type of demon- something Buffy had to out-punch, not out-quip or out-smart. I kinda miss those types of vampires.

 

[white avenger]

Given that the title of the show was "Buffy The VAMPIRE Slayer," I'd have to say that the vampires in the Buffyverse got the short end of the stick in the "badness" category, especially after Season 3. I don't think that that was any attempt to belittle vampires as much as it was to introduce a little variety onto the show.

Having said that, however, I do think that vampires became less and less menacing as the show progressed, to the point that, by the end, they were more apt to be some other demon's minion or hired muscle than to have the kind of status that Luke and Darla had in Season 1.

 

[Aud]

Given that the title of the show was "Buffy The VAMPIRE Slayer," I'd have to say that the vampires in the Buffyverse got the short end of the stick in the "badness" category, especially after Season 3. I don't think that that was any attempt to belittle vampires as much as it was to introduce a little variety onto the show.

Having said that, however, I do think that vampires became less and less menacing as the show progressed, to the point that, by the end, they were more apt to be some other demon's minion or hired muscle than to have the kind of status that Luke and Darla had in Season 1.

I agree. I don't think they were intentionally trying to trivialize vampires, but I do think they were ridiculously sidelined midway through the series, to the point that I actually thought the title of the show became sort of a misnomer (in the vein of "New" Girl). And I also felt vampires didn't need to be pushed to the side as much as they were, especially considering that we have seen, though vampires like Angel and Spike, that some are indeed exception and exceptionally strong. I mean, I know Angel is meant to be unique, but the way he was portrayed, especially on ATS, it seemed like he was much stronger than most demons. Or at least, he seemed to be able to defeat many demons with relative ease. Basically, we know that not all vampires are created equal (I mean even plain old Xander was a slap-fight match for vamp Harmony). Thus, I think they very well could have thought of something new and creative to do with vampires (instead of just the brainless, beastly Turok-hans). I'm not saying all vampires suddenly needed to be portrayed as being as strong as Angel, since only the Big Bad would have to be another unique vampire.

Most of the Big Bads of the latter seasons were problematic to me because they were overly ambitious, and poorly executed. Specifically, I have Adam, Glory, and The First in mind. Conceptually, these were all great ideas, but none seemed to work quite as well as they could have.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

For me, the lack of big bad vampires on the shows later seasons really hurts it. It's called Buffy the VAMPIRE slayer. Why are they called specifically vampire slayers if they are meant to fight every demon. Why not just be called demon slayers? Because that doesn't sound as cool. I think they could have come up with a new big bad vampire, or at least some one like Mr. Trick. They could have explored the vampire mythology more with that. I like the Turok-Han but they really missed an opportunity there, and then just make them weaker in the final battle. Tsk tsk, what a shame. The only time we see vampires (Spike doesn't count) is when Buffy is just casually staking them. The threat of a vampire really goes down hill, and they become more of a joke. Vampire on AtS aren't much better though.

they were overly ambitious, and poorly executed.

This is it, exactly! Adam, Glory and the First could have been really great big bads, but something somewhere went wrong. The Mayor, who doesn't have any powers (until he's invincible) and doesn't do a whole until the end of the season was a better big bad then them.

 

[thetopher]

I mean, I know Angel is meant to be unique, but the way he was portrayed, especially on ATS, it seemed like he was much stronger than most demons. Or at least, he seemed to be able to defeat many demons with relative ease.

I'm not so sure. At least in season 1 Angel tends to get his ass kicked about once an episode. In 'City Of..' he almost loses to another vampire, then he gets beaten up by a body-swapping demon, then he gets captured/tortured, then he gets beaten by an X-Files reject...

He does get better though- presumably because unlike most other vampires he trains himself to fight stronger foes- but he still gets beaten way more than Buffy does.

Basically, we know that not all vampires are created equal

True, we're never really given a reason why say, Holden Webster is so good for a newly risen vampire (taking on S7 Buffy) and Harmony is so uneffective even after many months of undeath.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

True, we're never really given a reason why say, Holden Webster is so good for a newly risen vampire (taking on S7 Buffy) and Harmony is so uneffective even after many months of undeath.

Holden does say that he was into like Tae Kwan Do or something before he was turned. And we know that Harmony never did any fighting. So it goes with the theory that vampires remain some of their human characteristics.

As far as there are no big bad vampires goes, I still think they could have explored more of the vampires that are really, really old, or had some special powers, like the Master and Dru. Or what if you cross a vampire with another bigger demon? There is a lot more they could have done with the vampires, they are all just generic after Dracula, until the Turok-Han. I won't rehash my feelings about the Turok-Han. lol

 

[Mr Trick]

After awhile it would have been hard to have made one Vampire big bad stand out from another. One of the appeals of the Spike character is that he is dangerous, but also is very slippery, and relies just as much as cunning plans to try and get the better of Buffy. But he was very much a one off. The toughest part of fighting evil Angel was just the emotional side of the experience.

Because you know that Buffy has had her powers for awhile before arrivaling in Sunnydale and see her throughout easily slay a number of Vampires then it would be hard to buy them as that much of a threat to her in lead roles.