Doctor Who is Cancelled

Eh, it's not my series, but aren't quantum copies of the Time Lords kept in the matrix on Galifrey? Would it not be easy to produce a clone of the Doctor, claim their was a terrible accident, and sens him on his way? If the audience doesn't take, reveal him as a fake, true doctor lives. I mean, I am assuming that Galifrey is this sparkling golden age civilization in decline, and wasn't burned again.
 
B
Btvs fan
No they dont
I heard about the last episode and it is kind of cool that Billie Piper was the first and last face that was shown for this era of Doctor Who.

Not really no. That was thrown in at the very last second as a social media grab moment by RTD and a way to pressure the BBC into giving him the Christmas special (he said he hadn't written a script even though previously he said he had and Murray Gold had said he had) and Billy Piper only agreed to do it as a favour for RTD.
 
Honestly, I think this is probably a good thing. It's been going in the current run for 20 years. Time to take a break.

This is actually a major problem with all the franchises. They fel they have to constantly be producing more material, and what we end up with is "more'. Not better, just "more".

It, Star Wars, Star Trek, and marvel would all benefit from a few years off.
 
Honestly, I think this is probably a good thing. It's been going in the current run for 20 years. Time to take a break.

This is actually a major problem with all the franchises. They fel they have to constantly be producing more material, and what we end up with is "more'. Not better, just "more".

It, Star Wars, Star Trek, and marvel would all benefit from a few years off.
Maybe not 20 years but it definitely could do with a break
 
I agree that "evergreen" franchises do need to be managed better by their corporate overlords and need to view their relationship to cultural icons as more akin to stewardship, rather than IP they control. That includes short, but significant hiatuses. I suspect financial losses related to the pandemic somewhat encouraged the panicked creation of stuff.

Although frankly, per the clanker, Doctor Who has had about 68 episodes since 2015. That's the run of TOS, basically. I don't think it was a creative exhaustion issue, so it's not just that.
 
This was the last time I actually stood and cheered for the show. It was even more special knowing that this was a worldwide simulcast. I wasn't watching alone! It still gives me chills.

GALLIFREY STANDS

 
Sorry, I didn't mean a 20 year break. But take 3-4 years off.

There's a general dislike amongst holders of big IPs about doing that. They fear, maybe rightly, maybe not (I believe that Doctor Who actually did rather well whilst it wasn't on the screen), that if an IP isn't constantly in people's faces with new material, that they won't be able to sell as much supplementary stuff, like merchandising, and that viewers are less likely to check out existing media (of course, if the new media is rubbish, then people are less likely to look up older stuff).
 
Doctor Who has gone offline before but back then it still had a die hard fanbase and relatively intact lore to build off of. This time all it has in an activist class who thought the latest stuff was fabulously queer and wonderful...but didn't show up to watch it because they're fickle. Not to mention that for a lot of them its not about loving a thing but seeing a thing taken away from people you don't like and having it align with what you believe. Then you can busily ignore it.

Personally I don't see DW coming back for a good long while; there needs to be a hard culture shift away from identity politics which, although its fading, isn't going to disappear any time soon.
 
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
Anyanka Bunny Slayer
I absolutely agree with every word!
There's a general dislike amongst holders of big IPs about doing that. They fear, maybe rightly, maybe not (I believe that Doctor Who actually did rather well whilst it wasn't on the screen), that if an IP isn't constantly in people's faces with new material, that they won't be able to sell as much supplementary stuff, like merchandising, and that viewers are less likely to check out existing media (of course, if the new media is rubbish, then people are less likely to look up older stuff).
Yes and no though. Doctor Who is similar to Star Wars and Star Trek where theres an entire media empire out there associated with the IP. The Whoniverse includes audios, novels, audiobooks, and comics that continue interest in the show. And since the RTD/Moffat changeover, it has gone on hiatus for a couple of years to usher in a new production crew. So it's not abnormal to have a pause on the Doctor for a few years. While it wasn't a big shock that they decided to cancel the Christmas special, considering there wasn't a developed script and no production has occurred in 2026, it is a small shock that they didn't have any plan to tide over with a special or two while they reconfigured the series going forward.

RTD and Bad Wolf made so many mistakes with this recent run that I think it's smart BBC is putting a pause on the show until they can figure out a path forward. I'd say working on a feature film that was maybe 2.5-3 hours long to tide us over until a full new series would be ideal. Not a TV movie like the 90s movie. But a full feature that would go worldwide.

Also, getting back to 12 episodes a season, where we can actually get to know the Doctor and his companions, would be ideal. Social commentary as a throughline instead of in your face would also be ideal. That's what made the first 7 seasons of New Who so good, and what makes science fiction in general such a fun genre. It means you assume your audience has intelligence to see through the monster of the week, or the general plot, and understand the nuances of the episode. Media in general has gotten terrible at that.

Doctor Who has gone offline before but back then it still had a die hard fanbase and relatively intact lore to build off of. This time all it has in an activist class who thought the latest stuff was fabulously queer and wonderful...but didn't show up to watch it because they're fickle. Not to mention that for a lot of them its not about loving a thing but seeing a thing taken away from people you don't like and having it align with what you believe. Then you can busily ignore it.
I disagree with this. It feels very generalized. People stopped watching because it wasn't the same show. The DNA of the show was not there. "Boom" and "73 Yards" were the only two episodes that felt like Doctor Who in series 14 (and it must be noted that Steven Moffat wrote "Boom".) I enjoyed "Dot and Bubble" but it felt more like an episode of Black Mirror than Doctor Who. I also enjoyed "Rogue" as a spoof of Bridgerton, which I've never seen though it was a fun episode--however, it still didn't really feel like a Doctor Who episode. The finale was absolutely terrible and made no sense. Whle "Joy to the World" felt like a Doctor Who special, "The Church on Ruby Road" did not. Not one of the 8 episodes of Series 15 really felt like Doctor Who. The best episode of the fifteenth series was Ruby focused and barely had the Doctor in it.

The failure of RTD's second run didn't have anything to do with an "activist class" loving it and not showing up. It had to do with the choice to change the DNA of the show to something that wasn't Doctor Who anymore--which Davies himself admitted was his goal when he said he was going to shift focus to bring in a younger audience. It's the same reason why Buffy seasons 6 & 7 is panned by its core audience. It didn't feel like Buffy anymore. The DNA of the show vanished. Even the structure of the season shifted. You didn't have a true "Big Bad" in season 6 or 7.The First is not a "Big Bad". The First is a concept that was a great MOTW that pushed both Buffy and Angel's character arc forward, but it wasn't a true Big Bad that could be taken down. (Though again even 6/7 was loads better than much of the garbage we have today) Creators and showrunners think "we need to change things up to keep things fresh" and it almost always fails because they alienate the audience that has followed them for so long.

Personally I don't see DW coming back for a good long while; there needs to be a hard culture shift away from identity politics which, although its fading, isn't going to disappear any time soon.
I kind of(?) agree with you about the "identity politics" but I think this statement misses the mark a little. As mentioned previously, I think it's less about the identity politics and more about the overt politics shoved in our faces, instead of the nuance of subtext driving the point home. Classic sci-fi used "alien species" and fantastical elements to make social commentary. It's why Classic Who, Classic Star Trek, Buffy (seasons 1-5), New Who (seasons 1-7), etc were so great. We were given a plot our characters had to overcome, and embedded within the characters and story was the social commentary about our world at large. Making Ruby Noble trans and then commenting about her trans identity throughout The Star Beast is overt, in your face, and alienating for the audience. Having her be a fully written trans character that had her own arc throughout the specials would have been a better way to go, as it would have been a better representation of trans people being embedded into our society instead of a special character or plot.

Unfortunately, in a mega-capitalist world--production companies don't care about commentary, they care about profit. If series and movies can make great social commentary (and win awards) while also making them lots of money, they're good. If the commentary is trash but they made lots of money, they're good. If the commentary is on point but they made okay money or they dipped, production dips. If the commentary is trash and they don't make money, they kill it off. RTD and Bad Wolf landed in the last category this time. By pandering to a "younger audience" (aka developing trash) they alienated the die-hard Whovians, and Disney bounced. Now BBC is left with an IP that has no extra backing and is expensive to make.

The kicker here is.. I don't see production companies changing. We're now in a world where consumers are inundated with so much content, and production companies are producing so much content, they have to have properties that will turn profit to make up the difference. If you have an expensive project that won't turn a profit for them, they will kill it. Its why Warner Discovery killed off the Batgirl film (and others in 2022). They were bleeding money and they decided to cancel projects that they didn't think were going to be well-received and they could recoup on tax relief. Same thing with Buffy: New Sunnydale. Hulu/Disney was afraid it wasn't going to land with audiences, so they killed it instead of wasting money. We've become an overproduced society, and now that all the major media companies keep merging, we're going to see more properties being killed off. It's not about "making art" or social commentary, it's about money. Or, as First Buffy once said "It's about power".

And identity politics.. that's what sells right now. And production companies love to exploit this division because people show up for something that aligns to their identity/beliefs. What they are getting wrong is the overt identity politics and performative choices in media is what will kill off franchises. The Doctor has always (at least sense the revival) been ambiguous in sexuality. The Doctor has always been campy. Not one of the Doctors prior to Thirteen were ever uber-masculine or traditionally heterosexual. They were quirky and odd and eccentric. Even though Thirteen was a female, she still had a bit of quirkiness and oddball to her. With a better showrunner, we could have seen more from her and a better Female Doctor. The storylines were just garbage and then revisionist, which alienated fans (and why RTD was brought back by BBC). Then, instead of going back to form and having a doctor closer to Tenant, we go full on gender fluid and making decisions like he's 23 instead of thousands of years old. Again, had we had a better showrunner, Ncuti actually could have been a much better Doctor. The DNA of the Doctor as a Character was revised by both Chibnall and Davies in the Thirteenth and Fifteenth doctors to the point that it didn't feel like The Doctor anymore.
 
NotASlayer
NotASlayer
Watching Classic Who, the early Doctors came across as more asexual than anything else. Probably helpful when you want to avoid questions about why an old guy is running around with women a fraction of his age... :D
Yes and no though. Doctor Who is similar to Star Wars and Star Trek where theres an entire media empire out there associated with the IP. The Whoniverse includes audios, novels, audiobooks, and comics that continue interest in the show. And since the RTD/Moffat changeover, it has gone on hiatus for a couple of years to usher in a new production crew. So it's not abnormal to have a pause on the Doctor for a few years. While it wasn't a big shock that they decided to cancel the Christmas special, considering there wasn't a developed script and no production has occurred in 2026, it is a small shock that they didn't have any plan to tide over with a special or two while they reconfigured the series going forward.

RTD and Bad Wolf made so many mistakes with this recent run that I think it's smart BBC is putting a pause on the show until they can figure out a path forward. I'd say working on a feature film that was maybe 2.5-3 hours long to tide us over until a full new series would be ideal. Not a TV movie like the 90s movie. But a full feature that would go worldwide.

Also, getting back to 12 episodes a season, where we can actually get to know the Doctor and his companions, would be ideal. Social commentary as a throughline instead of in your face would also be ideal. That's what made the first 7 seasons of New Who so good, and what makes science fiction in general such a fun genre. It means you assume your audience has intelligence to see through the monster of the week, or the general plot, and understand the nuances of the episode. Media in general has gotten terrible at that.


I disagree with this. It feels very generalized. People stopped watching because it wasn't the same show. The DNA of the show was not there. "Boom" and "73 Yards" were the only two episodes that felt like Doctor Who in series 14 (and it must be noted that Steven Moffat wrote "Boom".) I enjoyed "Dot and Bubble" but it felt more like an episode of Black Mirror than Doctor Who. I also enjoyed "Rogue" as a spoof of Bridgerton, which I've never seen though it was a fun episode--however, it still didn't really feel like a Doctor Who episode. The finale was absolutely terrible and made no sense. Whle "Joy to the World" felt like a Doctor Who special, "The Church on Ruby Road" did not. Not one of the 8 episodes of Series 15 really felt like Doctor Who. The best episode of the fifteenth series was Ruby focused and barely had the Doctor in it.

The failure of RTD's second run didn't have anything to do with an "activist class" loving it and not showing up. It had to do with the choice to change the DNA of the show to something that wasn't Doctor Who anymore--which Davies himself admitted was his goal when he said he was going to shift focus to bring in a younger audience. It's the same reason why Buffy seasons 6 & 7 is panned by its core audience. It didn't feel like Buffy anymore. The DNA of the show vanished. Even the structure of the season shifted. You didn't have a true "Big Bad" in season 6 or 7.The First is not a "Big Bad". The First is a concept that was a great MOTW that pushed both Buffy and Angel's character arc forward, but it wasn't a true Big Bad that could be taken down. (Though again even 6/7 was loads better than much of the garbage we have today) Creators and showrunners think "we need to change things up to keep things fresh" and it almost always fails because they alienate the audience that has followed them for so long.


I kind of(?) agree with you about the "identity politics" but I think this statement misses the mark a little. As mentioned previously, I think it's less about the identity politics and more about the overt politics shoved in our faces, instead of the nuance of subtext driving the point home. Classic sci-fi used "alien species" and fantastical elements to make social commentary. It's why Classic Who, Classic Star Trek, Buffy (seasons 1-5), New Who (seasons 1-7), etc were so great. We were given a plot our characters had to overcome, and embedded within the characters and story was the social commentary about our world at large. Making Ruby Noble trans and then commenting about her trans identity throughout The Star Beast is overt, in your face, and alienating for the audience. Having her be a fully written trans character that had her own arc throughout the specials would have been a better way to go, as it would have been a better representation of trans people being embedded into our society instead of a special character or plot.

Unfortunately, in a mega-capitalist world--production companies don't care about commentary, they care about profit. If series and movies can make great social commentary (and win awards) while also making them lots of money, they're good. If the commentary is trash but they made lots of money, they're good. If the commentary is on point but they made okay money or they dipped, production dips. If the commentary is trash and they don't make money, they kill it off. RTD and Bad Wolf landed in the last category this time. By pandering to a "younger audience" (aka developing trash) they alienated the die-hard Whovians, and Disney bounced. Now BBC is left with an IP that has no extra backing and is expensive to make.

The kicker here is.. I don't see production companies changing. We're now in a world where consumers are inundated with so much content, and production companies are producing so much content, they have to have properties that will turn profit to make up the difference. If you have an expensive project that won't turn a profit for them, they will kill it. Its why Warner Discovery killed off the Batgirl film (and others in 2022). They were bleeding money and they decided to cancel projects that they didn't think were going to be well-received and they could recoup on tax relief. Same thing with Buffy: New Sunnydale. Hulu/Disney was afraid it wasn't going to land with audiences, so they killed it instead of wasting money. We've become an overproduced society, and now that all the major media companies keep merging, we're going to see more properties being killed off. It's not about "making art" or social commentary, it's about money. Or, as First Buffy once said "It's about power".

And identity politics.. that's what sells right now. And production companies love to exploit this division because people show up for something that aligns to their identity/beliefs. What they are getting wrong is the overt identity politics and performative choices in media is what will kill off franchises. The Doctor has always (at least sense the revival) been ambiguous in sexuality. The Doctor has always been campy. Not one of the Doctors prior to Thirteen were ever uber-masculine or traditionally heterosexual. They were quirky and odd and eccentric. Even though Thirteen was a female, she still had a bit of quirkiness and oddball to her. With a better showrunner, we could have seen more from her and a better Female Doctor. The storylines were just garbage and then revisionist, which alienated fans (and why RTD was brought back by BBC). Then, instead of going back to form and having a doctor closer to Tenant, we go full on gender fluid and making decisions like he's 23 instead of thousands of years old. Again, had we had a better showrunner, Ncuti actually could have been a much better Doctor. The DNA of the Doctor as a Character was revised by both Chibnall and Davies in the Thirteenth and Fifteenth doctors to the point that it didn't feel like The Doctor anymore.
Agree with much of this.
Star Trek has Kurtzman whose done so much damage to that, hopefully he'll be fired soon.
While Starwars is now run by Dave Filoni a self promoting cartoon guy. Both the Ahsoka TV show and recent Mandalorian film were terrible flops. If the new Starwars movie has success it'll be more die to Ryan Gosling and Shawn levy than him
 
Agree with much of this.
Star Trek has Kurtzman whose done so much damage to that, hopefully he'll be fired soon.
While Starwars is now run by Dave Filoni a self promoting cartoon guy. Both the Ahsoka TV show and recent Mandalorian film were terrible flops. If the new Starwars movie has success it'll be more die to Ryan Gosling and Shawn levy than him
Exactly. "Popular" media is being churned out without quality checks or controls, and that's whats killing the industry and what used to be great IPs
 
I don't have an issue with The Doctor being different in each incarnation, he's always appeared as a specific type of human despite being an alien. The original doctor acted like an older, upper class British man and that doesn't make any more sense for an alien than the working class northern man that was the ninth doctor.
 
It's difficult to run a show for 20 years at a consistent high quality. Even with a show that can go anywhere and anywhen.

The relaunch worked very well because it tapped into the old show but was fresh and had new stories to tell. It done very well with it's leads too. It had a nice run but clearly run out of steam years back. I watched through the end of the Moffat / Capaldi era for closure but the good episodes were few and far between.

It's time for a break and then another soft reboot in the future when a team with a vision picks it up. They'll be able to cherry pick or manipulate the lore if needed to make it fit.
 
The Doctor Who show should have remained in the BBC's hands.
The Americans just didn't have a clue,
I once wrote a stage play and asked the guys in charge for copyright permission to direct the play myself,
unfortunately the Americans got it into their heads I was asking them to make the show. idiots.
That was 10 or so years ago, I knew then that the end was coming.
Dr. Who was best made in England for the rest of the world to watch not pandering to the American dollar.

I still have the very first episode, then when Jenna Coleman was the Dr's companion she was a teacher at the same school the Dr's granddaughter went to.
My other favourite episodes were, The Girl in the Fireplace and the first appearance of The Weeping Angels - and always will be.
 
When is the BBC going to do a re-run of everything about the Doctor IE that should begin with the Tardis having been built in the Quatermass series in the very early sixties, even though it was initially built for the set crew of that show to have somewhere to go an have a ciggy break without the bosses seeing them.
 
B
Btvs fan
Its all on Iplayer
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