Eleventh Hour is the best introduction episode for a Doctor ever, but that's a very high bar so it's not really saying much that The Church on Ruby Road isn't as good as that one.
Post automatically merged:
They do that in the Classic show but often it feels very out of the blue. And sometimes this gif would apply.
I'm doing a rewatch of the whole season. I'm on Episode 9 Cold Blood, (Chibnalls 2 parter and it didnt need to be 2pts)
In terms of episodes so far. A Time of Angel's (2nd part OK but not as good) and Amys Choice (Toby Jones as the Dream Lord makes this) are excellent.
Victory of the Daleks started well but the ending was a bit meh and the "new" Ipod Daleks were considered meh at the time too as they were dropped.
The Beast Below was to soon and would've worked better later in the season.
The Venice episode just didn't work. Alien fish and Vampires just don't mesh.
Overall though I'm enjoying it. Matt Smith is excellent. Karen Gillian is good but Amys character is a bit to dislikable. Especially how she treats Rory. Honestly he'd be better of without her and he kind of feels like a 3rd wheel. Davril peformance is decent though
Exactly. I was referring to New Who. When the Toymaker was talking about all the past companions, it got me thinking… Rose was stuck in a parallel universe, Martha left of a broken heart, Donna was mind wiped, Amy was trapped in the past (luckily with Rory, but still), Clara was killed, Bill was killed..
Thirteen’s companions are the only ones that didn’t leave from tragic circumstances. Though the Companion Support group made it seem more tragic.. that all these companions feel inadequate after running around with the Doctor.
Rewatched the 11th Hour (13 years ago !) And it's as different as night and day in terms of writing quality. Anyone whose defending Ruby Road needs to go see that. Then you'll know what RR is so poor
But please remember that people have differences of opinions. I find statements like this disrespectful of others’ opinions. It’s one thing to say you don’t like RR, and list the reasons. It’s disrespectful to say “if you like RR, you need to watch a proper introduction” insinuating their view/opinion is trash.
I feel like there have been a lot of disrespectful posts regarding opinions of New/Classic Who and I think it’s important to remind everyone that we need to be respectful when discussing opinions.
Exactly. I was referring to New Who. When the Toymaker was talking about all the past companions, it got me thinking… Rose was stuck in a parallel universe, Martha left of a broken heart, Donna was mind wiped, Amy was trapped in the past (luckily with Rory, but still), Clara was killed, Bill was killed..
I think all things considered Rose got a happy ending, but I get what you mean because she was forced to be away from The Doctor and that broke her heart. Still, Rose was with her mother, she had a version of her father in that universe, and they're millionaires...and eventually she gets a copy of The Doctor, so could be worse 😄
Martha had her family enslaved, I was proud of her for walking away from The Doctor for her own sake.
Exactly. I was referring to New Who. When the Toymaker was talking about all the past companions, it got me thinking… Rose was stuck in a parallel universe, Martha left of a broken heart, Donna was mind wiped, Amy was trapped in the past (luckily with Rory, but still), Clara was killed, Bill was killed..
Thirteen’s companions are the only ones that didn’t leave from tragic circumstances. Though the Companion Support group made it seem more tragic.. that all these companions feel inadequate after running around with the Doctor.
But please remember that people have differences of opinions. I find statements like this disrespectful of others’ opinions. It’s one thing to say you don’t like RR, and list the reasons. It’s disrespectful to say “if you like RR, you need to watch a proper introduction” insinuating their view/opinion is trash.
I feel like there have been a lot of disrespectful posts regarding opinions of New/Classic Who and I think it’s important to remind everyone that we need to be respectful when discussing opinions.
Vincent and The Doctor next, that's the best episode of series 5 imo.
I think all things considered Rose got a happy ending, but I get what you mean because she was forced to be away from The Doctor and that broke her heart. Still, Rose was with her mother, she had a version of her father in that universe, and they're millionaires...and eventually she gets a copy of The Doctor, so could be worse 😄
Martha had her family enslaved, I was proud of her for walking away from The Doctor for her own sake.
Post automatically merged:
Wow The Toymaker should have brought it up and phrased it like that.
Agreed about Vincent and the Dr being the best episode of S5. Fantastic bit of writing. It deals with the subject Depression in a near perfect way which given Dr who is meant to be a children's show is impressive. Its all the more tragic because everything they sat about Van Gough was true.
I'm not a James Corden fan but The Lodger is a fantastic episode too. Great comedy episode that is a great tonal break from the last episode while showcasing the Dr's alien eccentricity as well as Matt Smiths real life genuine football skills. Maybe the 2nd best episode but I won't know until I do the Finale 2 Parter which I shall do now.
@Cohen No you are right and I retract what I said in my last post. Like you said its one thing to dislike Ruby Road and I didn't mean to be disrespectful of other opinions. I apologise it was unintentional.
NotASlayerAlso, they were Smartie Daleks, not iPhone Daleks!
CohenNo problem! I know we are all passionate, and just want to keep the conversation respectful of all the opinions! ❤️
Agreed about Vincent and the Dr being the best episode of S5. Fantastic bit of writing. It deals with the subject Depression in a near perfect way which given Dr who is meant to be a children's show is impressive. Its all the more tragic because everything they sat about Van Gough was true.
I think it was very respectful towards Van Gough because they didn't have The Doctor and Amy save him from his depression, they just emphasised the importance of them giving him one good day 🙁 and the fact that he still killed himself solidified that message. The monster itself is such a great metaphor for depression as well because only Van Gough can see the monster, so The Doctor and Amy couldn't fight it just like they can't fight Van Gough's depression.
I meant for her initial departure. Martha’s final episode was filled with tragedy. Of course it’s been a long while since I’ve seen it. Maybe I need to do a rewatch.
I'm confused about Martha/Mickey because in the Sontaran two parter in series 4 Martha tells Donna and The Doctor that she's engaged to a doctor. So not sure what happened to him, maybe it's explained in Torchwood which I still haven't seen.
I'm confused about Martha/Mickey because in the Sontaran two parter in series 4 Martha tells Donna and The Doctor that she's engaged to a doctor. So not sure what happened to him, maybe it's explained in Torchwood which I still haven't seen.
Yep and then by the Tennant finale she's married to Mickey. Honestly I think Rusty gave it no more thought than he needed to wrap all the characters up and so tied those 2 together. Even at the time of airing it got criticism.
Iv not seen Torchwood either. I tried 1 episode and just couldn't get into it.
OK so Iv seen the final 2 Parter. 1st part The Pandorica Opens is brilliant really enjoyed it. Great episode and reveal at the end. That it was basically just a big prison for the Dr.
The 2nd part The Big Bang not so much and felt like Moff was to clever for his own good And everything was all to neatly wrapped up. Like with A Time of Angel's/Flesh and Stone. Moff has a great first part then falls all over himself trying to wrap it up. The same happened with Sherlock. Still it wasnt a complete failure or bad wrap up just not as good.
All in all a good season overall. Matt Smith is the real stand out in terms of peformance as the Dr.
Best episode was Vincent and the Dr and I'll give The Pandorica Opens 2nd and A Time of Angel's 3rd with the Lodger 4th (no disrespect to KG but I thought the character worked better without Amy imo) and 11th Hour 5th.
The Vampires of Venice was the worst of the season and just was mishmash of different concepts put together that didn't work.
I wasn't a fan of the Chibnall 2 parter either but that's just because it was boring and bland rather than outright bad though the last 10 mins where Rory dies and Amy forgets was excellent.
Well the rewatch shall continue. I shall try season 6 which Iv not seen since it aired back in 2011!. Back then I liked the start but thought the reveal/resolution to the arc was done badly. 12 years later will I still feel like that ?
Moff has said S6 was done so as to be binge watched so let's see .
NotASlayerI agree that the two parter does seem a bit too long. Perhaps if they'd condensed it into one episode it would have had more oomph; as it is, it seems to drag.
BopMatt Smith was excellent, especially in that speech from Rings of Akhaten
OK so watched Dr Who Christmas Carol. It was OK didn't love it or hate it. Michael Gambon in the Scrouge role saves it from being forgettable. Problem for me was its hard to feel sympathy for a guy who is willing to let 4000 people die because he can't be bothered. I think it might have been better to leave that out and have the Dr determined to save him because he didn't strike the boy only.
So Iv seen the first 4 episodes. The Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon was a good 2 parter.
Visually the show looks gorgeous especially in its filming locations. While Moff has some quite witty dialogue. I laughed at River exasperated "There Americans" when the Dr speaks with all the guns pointing at him.
That and the come back about the complaints about no air holes in the body bags "no one has complained before"
Seeing the Dr die at the start was interesting for the season long mystery.
While the Silence themselves were a fun new villain.
Plus the ending with the Time Lord child regeneration makes the viewer keen to see more.
Curse of the Black Spot was crap and completely forgettable even when watching it.
Drs Wife, best episode of the season so far. Great stuff by Neil Gaiman. (Why oh why couldn't he rather than Chibbs have taken over after Moff) was interesting and horrific and funny all in one.
It's a shame we never saw Suaranne Jones again as she was fun to watch and had decent chemistry with Matt Smith as the Tardis is human form.
@Btvs fan Yeah Sarah Jane Adventures is a really good show, just as good as Doctor Who imo. The main difference is that it aired on CBBC rather than BBC so it's aimed more specifically at children.
So,
with the eventuality of AI
the Christmas special for 2024 could be all of the doctors companions meet up at a Christmas lunch after one of the doctors goes back in time in the TARDIS to get each of them personally I'd suggest the original Tom Baker.
According to Wikipedia, there have been 33 companions since "Rose" - and a third have been men. John Barrowman, Noel Clarke, Arthur Darvill, and Bradley Walsh were not "young girls" - nor was Catherine Tate.
Captain Jack, Mickey, and that other kid from Season 1 who got the implant (I forget his name) don't count because they were not the primary, season-long companion, but rather an occasional passenger of the Tardis for a few episodes here and there.
You are right about Rory, he is the exception there, but even Series 5 began with it being initially only Amy in the Tardis. But I will agree, Rory is a long-term companion, and he had that thing with being a plastic Roman for a couple millennia.
There was Nardole in Peter Capaldi's final year, and he was there all season long, but he had no character. He was just there as occasional comedic relief. Bill was the companion that year.
If you want to split hairs, Catherine may not have been super hot, and she was probably in her 30s, but that is a hell of a lot younger than she is now in the reunions. And the main point is on people from Earth and the current day.
The classic companions included far more variety--past, present, future, human, alien, humans from other countries, human-descendants from other planets, even a robot dog was one of the longest lasting companions.
I agree about the companions. They could do something different definitely.
To me he just doesn't feel like the Dr and it feels like Rusty isn't even trying to write Dr Who either.
Admitting he's switching to campy fantasy was a clue. Saying he changed Davros because he didn't want a bad guy in a Wheel Chair is just dumb (and another clue) . Hello Darth Vader arguably the most iconic villain of all time is a disabled guy strapped to a life support system !!
As for the 4th Wall breaking moment urgh 😑
Post automatically merged:
The Giggle was good because of Neil Patrick Harris and the scene with the puppet show about the fate off all the Dr's companions. "That's all right then"
But the Bi Generation did Gatwa dirty (Keeping Tennant around to bring back in case he messes up)
and having him run around in his underwear for no other reason than Davies wanted to perv felt wrong.
Rewatching The Eleventh Hour ...now that/this is a brilliant Doctor introduction episode in comparison and Matt Smith puts his own stamp on the Dr while being different to Eccleston and Tennant.
Speaking of Eccleston. Did anyone see his response to the question on if he would return ?
The "Bi-Generation" thing is just Russel Davies habitually unable to let David Tennant's Doctor get an unhappy ending or die. Even the first David Tennant Doctor had that hand in a jar that eventually became a human timelord that got to live happily ever after with Rose in an alternate Earth.
I agree, Neil Patrick Harris was brilliant (as expected). In fact, it's really the star power of the talent of these specials that saved what were otherwise fairly mediocre stories, as far as the writing is concerned. I didn't really care, because, well, the writing only needed to be half-decent enough anyway. We are all excited and happy to see David Tennant and Catherine Tate back.
However, after the Christmas Special with the new Doctor, I got nostalgic for more David Tennant, so I went back and continued my re-watch of NuWho that began some months ago and I had been seeing on and off. I had actually skipped the S3 episode "Gridlock" at the time, to instead go straight to the Daleks in Manhattan episodes. Coming back to Season 3, (which is when the show really first became excellent imo, not that Season 1 and 2 aren't also good, but they had moments of weakness. Season 3 - 6 is the best of the show, and also 9) it was like night and day.
Not only is Gridlock leagues upon leagues better than the new episodes, it was written by Russel Davies himself. So where did this RTD disappear to? This episode, which in my memory was one of the "weaker" ones of this season, seems like sheer brilliance by comparison. It's got horror, genuine fear that something might happen to the characters; sci-fi ideas, locales, and settings; cool sets and costumes (e.g. the cat people of New New York); etc.
I also watched 42, which I always liked. Chris Chibnall wrote that one. A classic formula of a killer on board the train, slowly killing them off one, by one, but with a sci-fi twist of it being set on a space freighter headed straight into the sun. Doctor Who, even NuWho under Russel Davies, was (almost) never as campy and childish as these new episodes. You can have characters be killed, as long as it's off-screen, but you can still have danger and violence. You need genuine danger and horror in order to actually be invested in the plot and concerned whether or not the characters will actually make it out of this.
It's too soon to judge the new Doctor, obviously, but I hope as more guest writers contribute, we get something closer to the first RTD era, and less like the silly, childish episodes Russel has given us this year.
Last edited:
BopCatherine is 54 now so she must have been late thirties closer to 40 at the time
Not only is Gridlock leagues upon leagues better than the new episodes, it was written by Russel Davies himself. So where did this RTD disappear to? This episode, which in my memory was one of the "weaker" ones of this season, seems like sheer brilliance by comparison. It's got horror, genuine fear that something might happen to the characters; sci-fi ideas, locales, and settings; cool sets and costumes (e.g. the cat people of New New York); etc.
Gridlock is quite a marmite episode in the fandom from what I've seen, but I've always thought it was one of the best from series 3 which is saying a lot because Blink and Human Nature/Family of Blood are from that series, the latter of which is my favourite story from all of Doctor Who.
Btvs fanThe Master reveal in Utopia was great. Derek Jacobi going from the kindly Grandfather figure to cold calculating contempt of those around him was perfect
OK so Iv seen Rebel Flesh and Almost People and Good Man goes to war.
The 2 parter was enjoyable though not quite perfect. Turning the bad woman into a cgi monster was unesscary and ridiculous. As for the kid scene, that was bad like Jake Lloyd I'm a person and my name is Anakin bad.
The ending reveal was good but it left questions that where never answered, like how amd when did the Dr find out Amy was not real and a flesh amd why did he keep quiet about it ?
Also given the 2 parter was him trying to say these are real people. It's then a complete 180 for him to turn around and say she's not real and kill her which is a bit jarring message wise.
Also you'd think Rory would be angry with Dr for not telling him, given its his wife and he's been literally sleeping with a fake Amy.
That all aside it was a fun 2 parter.
A Good Man Goes To War. Now I know this is quite a popular episode, now for me it's OK but the 1st quarter of the episode is essentially everyone saying how clever the Dr is got a bit much.
Then we had an action scene on TV budget so they run around the same warehouse space over and over again. Meh
Let me say after all that the ending reveal of fake Melody is fantastic. Amy screaming for Rory in horror is done perfectly. Then River reveal of who she is was equally great. While Rory confronting the Cybermen was cool.
For me it was an episode that could've been a 2 parter and more work to breath.
Post Dr episode, It's crazy to see at the end it saying they will return in the Autumn. I'd forgotten that at the time, Moff had made the choice to split the season up and show 1 part in the spring and other in the autumn. From 2023 that doesn't seem like it was a smart move
The ending reveal was good but it left questions that where never answered, like how amd when did the Dr find out Amy was not real and a flesh amd why did he keep quiet about it ?
Also given the 2 parter was him trying to say these are real people. It's then a complete 180 for him to turn around and say she's not real and kill her which is a bit jarring message wise.
I have a feeling I read somewhere that some of the early episodes were not shown in the order they were filmed. That would explain a few things. I would need to check on that.
With Fake Amy, she isn't a person like the other Gangers were. She's a fake body inhabited by the real Amy's consciousness apparently.
I have a feeling I read somewhere that some of the early episodes were not shown in the order they were filmed. That would explain a few things. I would need to check on that.
With Fake Amy, she isn't a person like the other Gangers were. She's a fake body inhabited by the real Amy's consciousness apparently.
So Iv seen finished up to the finale. I review that separately after Iv watched it.
Anyway for the episodes. These were bad or a bit meh and really fall down compared to the first half.
Let's Kill Hitler ... Awful episode. The humour doesn't land (except for the "that's Hitler trying to get out the cupboard line) and Moffat wastes the mysterious time lord child, turns her into River all simply so she can give the Dr more regenerations and conveniently use up hers !! The mountain laboured and brought fourth a mouse. Moff had written himself in knots to do this as well. He'd do the same on Sherlock.
Night Terrors ... just meh, didn't dislike it but didn't like it either and he's reusing the same monster design from the Girl in the Fireplace. Just lazy.
The Girl Who Waited. I actually liked this episode. The make up on Karen Gillan to make her look 30 yrs older was done well too. Also the Dr was a real di#£ lying to her like he did. For me the main issue was there was never any fall out from this. Both Rory and Amy should be angry with the Doctor and questioning whether they could or should be trusting him. Instead nothing and its forgotten about
The God Complex This could've been good but needed rewrites as it is, it's just meh again. It's also the start of Moff reusing the Angel's to much.
Closing Time. The Lodger was a great episode with some truly witty dialogue and great chemistry between Smith and Corden. This had none of that. The script was really painful. Urghh awful episode.
So that's that. The Finale next.
As episodes a real mixed bag. Certainly it the final half didnt justify the great first half and it felt like the show copied the main Buffy show weakness. It would raise an interesting concept then drop or ignore it.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
