Spoiler! Doctor Who: Spoiler Thread

[Bop]

like when she discovers that goblins are real she's like 'did that goblin just hiss at me?' rather than 'omg goblins are real and they're stealing the baby!'

Yeah because the former is more entertaining and the latter is more realistic but boring.
Entertainment always favours being entertaining over being realistic.

 

[thetopher]

Yeah because the former is more entertaining and the latter is more realistic but boring.
Entertainment always favours being entertaining over being realistic.

Well that's certainly one excuse for terrible character writing.

I guess the skill in writing an episode would to build consistent characterization and also realistic yet entertaining reactions to the plot that unfolds. I'm pretty sure RTD has managed to do that before. In 'Rose' for example.

I mean, Xander and Willow find out about the supernatural in Buffy's first/second episode and react to it in a way that is relatable, entertaining and not-boring, but still tells us something about their character.

 

[Bop]

Well that's certainly one excuse for terrible character writing.

I don't think dialogue not being realistic always qualifies as terrible writing. It's not realistic that all the Scoobies are incredibly quippy all the time, but that doesn't really matter.

 

[NotASlayer]

I do wonder just how surprising the weird stuff is these days in Doctor Who to people in-universe. I mean, they've seen all kinds of things and there doesn't seem to be any type of masquerade going on any longer.

 

[thetopher]

I don't think dialogue not being realistic always qualifies as terrible writing.

Dialogue is only part of it, relatable reactions are also a part of it; we see how the Scoobies react to finding out their world is bigger than they thought in a relatable way.
How Ruby reacts to that same revelation is terrible writing because it takes the viewer out of the moment, you realize she's not a 'real person' reacting to an extraordinary thing, she's a writer's construct mugging to the audience for a chuckle.

Maybe that's what RTD is now, maybe that's what the audience wants.

It's not realistic that all the Scoobies are incredibly quippy all the time, but that doesn't really matter.

But to me the Scoobies are always relatable and consistent in their reactions. I agree that in a genre show realism isn't paramount but relatability should be, and its a must for a Dr. Who companion.

 

[Bop]

How Ruby reacts to that same revelation is terrible writing

I don't think there's a problem with how Ruby reacts, she still seems shocked but she's vocalising that in a more funny way than just saying "Wow it's a goblin". Also Ruby was just thrown head first into that situation, she didn't have time to react to immediately seeing a Goblin because the first time she sees them they're taking the baby out of the window. If I remember correctly, after only seeing the episode once, isn't the "did that Goblin just hiss at me" line when they're on the ship? So that wouldn't be the first time Ruby saw them.

 

[thetopher]

I don't think there's a problem with how Ruby reacts, she still seems shocked but she's vocalising that in a more funny way than just saying "Wow it's a goblin". Also Ruby was just thrown head first into that situation, she didn't have time to react to immediately seeing a Goblin because the first time she sees them they're taking the baby out of the window.

It's more than that; the goblins have A BABY and she seems to treat everything like its not actually a serious thing. The whole thing is played for laughs, there's zero sense of danger or trepidation about the baby eating monsters. It's like Ruby knows she's in a sci-fi romp and so of course nothing bad will happen to that child. She even leaves it unattended AFTER the whole devoured by a goblin king near miss thing.

But if you don't think there's a problem, have at it, enjoy a way, it's just that many expected better I guess, which might explains the precipitous drop in viewing figures over the course of these specials.

 

[Btvs fan]

Watched The Church On Ruby Road and was completely underwhelmed. The new guy- judging by this outing- has zero gravitas or presence to convince as a nigh immortal alien being, at least Jodie was kinda hyper and kookie. He's not weird or serious enough, but he's pretty gay so maybe that why people like him anyway.

The plot managed to be incredibly thin and also confusingly nonsensical and as a result we now have another modern day female companion who is somehow special/has a mystery backstory. Whoopie.
Also the new companion acts like a quirky TV character rather like a real person in situations; like when she discovers that goblins are real she's like 'did that goblin just hiss at me?' rather than 'omg goblins are real and they're stealing the baby!' also there was zero sense of stakes to say that she and The Doctor were facing off against baby-eating gremlin things.

Nonsensical singing takes me out of any story, also it was awful.

Finally, if you're going to have gadgets that don't obey the laws of physics at all just call them magic gloves and be done, instead of explaining how clever they are/what they do and then contradicting the rules you've just stated later in the episode...

Iv always felt the issue with the Jodie era was not Jodie but Chibnalls writing which was horrific. She could only work with what she was given. RTD is doubling down on the Chibnall era too.

I do agree that Gatwa doesn't feel like the Dr. I rewatched 11th Hour and noticed the difference straight away. Matt Smith despite being a young guy, completely sells the idea that it's 900 year old being in a young man's body, he's also quirky and interesting while being different from Tennant or Eccleston.

I equally agree about Ruby. Honestly the actress feels like a Plank of wood. Again both Billie Pipers Rose or Karen Gillans Amy were different, well acted and interesting. Amy with the crack in the wall mystery which worked fantastically for the season.

 

[Cohen]

I feel like for some people, nothing the writers do will be enough because it’s not traditional Who. But the shows evolved over time. You can’t expect a 60 year old show to play the same beats year after year. And obviously people enjoy it because it’s a global phenomenon still. Disney wouldn’t have swooped it up if they didn’t think they could use the IP to boost subscriptions.

 

[Bop]

It's more than that; the goblins have A BABY and she seems to treat everything like its not actually a serious thing. The whole thing is played for laughs, there's zero sense of danger or trepidation about the baby eating monsters. It's like Ruby knows she's in a sci-fi romp and so of course nothing bad will happen to that child. She even leaves it unattended AFTER the whole devoured by a goblin king near miss thing.

I watched that scene again and there's a build up to Ruby asking if the Goblin hissed at her, she first sees the weird picture of the Goblin, she follows them on to the roof because they've taken the baby, and then she says in disbelief, "What the hell...what are you?" then the Goblin hisses and she says "Did you just hiss at me?". There isn't a sense of danger in the sense that we as the audience know The Doctor or Ruby will rescue the baby before it's eaten but that's just common sense because it's a family show. They're still dealing with baby-eating Goblins which works as an antagonist for the story. I think Ruby seems very concerned for the baby, which is why she doesn't think twice about jumping onto the ladder.

 

[Btvs fan]

OK so seen the next few. Not great these ones I'm afraid.

Hide - waste of Dougary Scott imo

Journey to the Center of the Tardis - The writers literally had the characters press a reset button at the end of the episode.

The Crimson Horror- This wasn't bad as such but more meh. It could've done with some rewrites. I actually kinda like Jenny. Though Vastra seems to have no character other than she has lizard makeup.
Drax humour of him saying crazy things works when it's him in the moment not him being stupid like in this script.

Nightmare in Silver - whose idea was to have those kids in the episode , they're painful to watch. The episode would've been far better without them.

Onto the finale The Name of the Doctor

 

[Bop]

I feel like for some people, nothing the writers do will be enough because it’s not traditional Who.

I don't even understand what traditional who is, like I see people say it's not real Doctor Who anymore, but what is real Doctor Who when it's been many things over the years.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2024

Iv always felt the issue with the Jodie era was not Jodie but Chibnalls writing which was horrific. She could only work with what she was given. RTD is doubling down on the Chibnall era too.

Jodie put on a great performance in Broadchurch and the writing from Chibnall was pretty good on that show as well- just not Doctor Who imo.

 

[Cohen]

I don't even understand what traditional who is, like I see people say it's not real Doctor Who anymore, but what is real Doctor Who when it's been many things over the years.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2024

I should have put it in quotes. I don’t know what “traditional who” is either. It’s all Timey Whimey nonsense to me! 😂

 

[Bop]

I should have put it in quotes. I don’t know what “traditional who” is either. It’s all Timey Whimey nonsense to me! 😂

Yeah there isn't really a definition for real Doctor Who and that's shown by everyone having a different definition.

 

[Cohen]

Yeah there isn't really a definition for real Doctor Who and that's shown by everyone having a different definition.

It’s an easy complaint to make; but I don’t buy it. The first and second Doctor stories are far different than the fourth and fifth Doctor storylines. And way different than the seventh. So even “classic who” arguments just don’t stand up in my eyes. You can dislike an era, but I also see a trend in media commentary where nothing is “good” anymore. Which also is reflective of these traditionalist political ideas where we need to make the country/world “great” again, but the world was never “great” to begin with and we should look for the good and positivity in today’s world and media. There are shows that are not my cuppa, but I don’t aggressively naysay them. I just don’t watch them.

 

[Btvs fan]

I don't even understand what traditional who is, like I see people say it's not real Doctor Who anymore, but what is real Doctor Who when it's been many things over the years.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2024

Jodie put on a great performance in Broadchurch and the writing from Chibnall was pretty good on that show as well- just not Doctor Who imo.

Agreed about Jodie (and Tennants) peformance in Broadchurch.
1st season of Broadchurch was great. 2nd season not so much.

Of my rewatch of Dr Who all his episodes in the Matt Smith era were/are bland or uninspired. That should've been a big warning sign that giving him the keys to the show was a bad idea.

 

[Bop]

It’s an easy complaint to make; but I don’t buy it. The first and second Doctor stories are far different than the fourth and fifth Doctor storylines.

Even the First Doctor is a different person from the beginning to end of his era, it's called a character arc and in The Doctor's case it can happen over multiple incarnations. So yeah honestly the only thing the First Doctor at the start of his run has in common with even the Second Doctor is his curiosity. Everything else that makes up The Doctor- his bravery, his love for Earth, he desire for justice/to help people, was not there with the First Doctor at the beginning.

You can dislike an era, but I also see a trend in media commentary where nothing is “good” anymore. Which also is reflective of these traditionalist political ideas where we need to make the country/world “great” again, but the world was never “great” to begin with

Exactly, the argument that the show is too woke now feels a bit disingenuous sometimes because I just wonder if those same fans would have said the same thing if something like Gridlock aired today because it's been pointed out that Gridlock featured a married lesbian couple in like 2007, years before gay marriage was legal in the UK. I get annoyed sometimes at some political things that are thrown into Doctor Who, even in the recent 60th specials, but I think some reactions from others are too quick and extreme in how they respond.

Of my rewatch of Dr Who all his episodes in the Matt Smith era were/are bland or uninspired. That should've been a big warning sign that giving him the keys to the show was a bad idea.

Yeah Moffat is truly a brilliant writer but as a showrunner he just got too close to the sun.

 

[NotASlayer]

I think I heard a saying about Doctor Who: If you don't like something, wait a few years and everything will have changed.

 

[Btvs fan]

Well Iv seen In the Name of the Doctor. It was good but damn it felt like to much was crammed into 1 episode. Also like it was basically set up for the Specials and Matt Smith leaving rather than a Season ending.

The Great Intelligence shows up then basically dies again.
Clara's mystery is revealed and I'm like oh OK, certainly not as good as Amy and the crack in the Wall or Rivers identity.

The best part of the episode was the Dr and River rather than him and Clara for the emotional side.

So that's Season 7 done. Overall its a mess. Not as good as 5 which was fantastic nor even as good as 6 which had great start but failed the landing. This season didn't really have much of anything.
The first half of the season was basically just a very long time saying goodbye to the Ponds which wasnt necessary and the second half did a load of half rushed stand alones that needed more work done. The Clara Mystery box didn't really work or wasnt given enough development amd time too.

Best episode is tricky its probably Angel's Take Manhatten but that's more for the emotional side rather than anything else rather than as an episode in itself which makes no sense in itself.

Pluses are Matt Smith was still great. I did like his clothes change while still being similar and the Tardis revamp wasn't bad either.

Anyway onto the last 2 episodes of the Matt Smith era Day of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor

 

[Skanky Vamp]

but what is real Doctor Who

A little black girl