How was she a total bitch in s4? Don't bring the whole Gunn/Professor thing again, dude. She was in the right. Gunn did what she wanted to do for herself.
Does anyone else hate Fred?
- Thread starter xfivebyfive
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How was she a total bitch in s4? Don't bring the whole Gunn/Professor thing again, dude. She was in the right. Gunn did what she wanted to do for herself.
Connor Holtz
Jasmine's Champion
Fred dumped Gunn for saving her. And she wasn't in right. Fred would died that day had she killed a human being.
MinwaraYana
[No message]
Fred never DUMPED Gunn first of all... It was more like they got distant, and then she kissed Wes, and they pretty much split up on a silent agreement.
And then yes she WAS in the right. It was HER choice to do it or not. I can understand them trying to stop her, but Gunn did what she wanted to do herself, that is wrong. Also... Fred wouldn't have died. Seriously, do you think Fred is unable to go through character development like any others? She would most likely have had remorses, but that wouldn't have killed her. It might have CHANGED her on the long run, but that's it.
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
Fred was a bitca in Season 4 aside from the whole Gunn/Professor thing (in which she was extremely nasty) there is also how she treated Wesley in Deep Down after he had just saved Angel. He saves Angel and then she has the nerve to say that he doesn't care about them.
Also, I don't think Fred stole the show from Cordelia. Season 3 was very much Cordy centric. Once Cordy goes into a coma at the end of season 4 then yes Fred gets pushed a lot more as the main girl. Which I annoyed me I guess but honestly its one of the lower reasons why I dislike her so much. In fact I can somewhat stand Fred in season 5, I like how she helps Spike, and she's shown as a lot less childish. I guess the scientist setting helped her finally fit in or whatever. But if anything I hold against Fred regarding Cordelia it would be her death. And how she had three episodes centered around it, even though I know it was to launch the Illyria story-arc, and how everyone mourned her like she was a goddess. Whereas Cordelia was forgotten and her death completely overshadowed by Fred's overrated and drawnout death.
Also, I don't think Fred stole the show from Cordelia. Season 3 was very much Cordy centric. Once Cordy goes into a coma at the end of season 4 then yes Fred gets pushed a lot more as the main girl. Which I annoyed me I guess but honestly its one of the lower reasons why I dislike her so much. In fact I can somewhat stand Fred in season 5, I like how she helps Spike, and she's shown as a lot less childish. I guess the scientist setting helped her finally fit in or whatever. But if anything I hold against Fred regarding Cordelia it would be her death. And how she had three episodes centered around it, even though I know it was to launch the Illyria story-arc, and how everyone mourned her like she was a goddess. Whereas Cordelia was forgotten and her death completely overshadowed by Fred's overrated and drawnout death.
Connor Holtz
Jasmine's Champion
Zalos said:
I'd rather not argue over this cause I don't like Fred enough to argue but I don't understand how you don't see the the remorse over killing a human being would change Fred so much, she would NO longer be the Fred every character loved. Anyway, I'm done on this one.
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
I'm kind of on the fence with the last part. Even though he saves Angel and she says that about him....they are all to blame for their separation....NOT just fred or Wesley.
I totally Agree....it was mutual.
Katieee! I agree it was wrong for her to say that to Wes after what he went through, but she wasn't the only one acting that way with Wesley.
And for the Cordy/Fred thing in s5, I think it was mostly related to them forgetting key moments about Cordelia in s4. I don't think it was intentional for them to just move on without any tears(or at least I hope so, cause they all loved her so much). As for Fred, well... She had got closer to Spike, Wes loved her, Angel always cared for her like a little sister ect... It made sense that they worried a lot and the impact her death had on them. I love how Lorne get pissed about it!!!! We don't see Lorney Tunes mad quite often 🙂
---------- Post added at 02:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 AM ----------
It's obvious it would change her... But how is that bad? Most peoples that dislike Fred mention her 'childish and innocent attitude' as being a big part of it. She would have grown going through these remorses. Most of the characters had to go through these hard times on the show, and they all got more interesting because of it.
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
I mostly blame her but Wesley does also play a large role, had he never stolen Connor. But had Fred never existed, Gunn/Wes would still be friends, and he could have told Gunn about the prophecy. On the other hand had Wesley not let Fred get between them he could have trusted Gunn. But anyway off on a rant lol, Wesley at that moment had just proven he still cared about Angel and the gang, and to say that to him is just nasty.
Its not just that they were upset when she dies, she has the most overrated death in the entire series. Aside from Buffy dying at the end of season 5, no death is lingered on as long as hers was. The characters basically mourn her the rest of the entire series and they never mourn Cordelia who they all loved and knew longer then Fred.
It's not overrated! It's touching and sad 🙁 It bothered them that much because she was the perfect example of what THEY were fighting for. It's then that Angel realized he had to FREAKING do something already about W&H and the Circle of the Lame Thorn.
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Well you can't totally blame her for their lack of controlling themselves. It's not like she made herself out to be like this super attractive, irrisistable woman. If you remember, she had the hots for Angel. She didn't mean for any of that to happen. So you can't really blame her. If anything Blame Wes and Gunn for not being able to stay professional at the workplace(most of the time anyways).
True. However I can understand why Angel was still kind of wary of the whole situation. If you remember in late s4...right as he is getting his soul extracted, he has this dream that pretty much everything falls into place. One of those things is the fact that Wesley officially states an apology. THAT, I think, is what both Angel and the rest of the group were waiting for.
Lol, that was funny! 😛 But yah Wes and Gunn acted stupid about it all. They had an awesome friendship before Fred came in.
M
msfantastico87
glad I could amuse you lol :)
GrrArghx
No touching my clipboard!
I think it's unfair to hate Fred just because of how another character was treated. That has nothing to do with her at all. It isn't her fault in any way. I think it's also unfair to hate Fred because of Gunn and Wesley's friendship dissolving. Not her fault either. It's their fault.
Besides, Cor's death was different. A demon didn't destroy her soul and take over her body. Once Cordelia was gone - that's it. She was gone. Angel and the others weren't forced to watch the thing that murder their friend set up shop in her body like they were with Fred. Nor could they do anything to bring Cordelia back. The only reason Fred's death got more emphasis is because of Illyria, Gunn, and Wesley, IMO.
Or if you want to be literal, Charisma left the show and we see how she was treated beforehand. I'm not surprised she was barely mentioned. I mean, I honestly didn't expect anything, let alone an appearance, after what happened to her character in S4. I guess that's one of the many reasons I adore You're Welcome so much, lol.
Besides, Cor's death was different. A demon didn't destroy her soul and take over her body. Once Cordelia was gone - that's it. She was gone. Angel and the others weren't forced to watch the thing that murder their friend set up shop in her body like they were with Fred. Nor could they do anything to bring Cordelia back. The only reason Fred's death got more emphasis is because of Illyria, Gunn, and Wesley, IMO.
Or if you want to be literal, Charisma left the show and we see how she was treated beforehand. I'm not surprised she was barely mentioned. I mean, I honestly didn't expect anything, let alone an appearance, after what happened to her character in S4. I guess that's one of the many reasons I adore You're Welcome so much, lol.
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
No I dont entirely blame her for that. However it was blatantly obvious that they both liked her and she led them both on. I agree Wesley should have been the bigger man.
I think Wesley should have apologized. I have real issues with Wesley on this. On the whole Connor issue. Angel however did forgive Wesley after he saved him, he tells him so in Ground State the second episode.
But anyway Wesley is off topic.
I hate Fred lol there we go.
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Pardon my possible stupidity...but how exactly did she lead them BOTH on? I mean the only thing I remember Is Fred and Cordy having a conversation and Cordy is all like "Yes he likes you too" without ever mentioning a name...and then Cordy tells Wes that Fred likes him when in reallity Fred thought she and Cordy were both talking about Gunn. Am I wrong? Did I miss something? lol
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
No your not stupid, if you thought I implied that I didnt mean too. Maybe whether or not she lead them on is up to interpretation. But I saw her constantly flirting with Wesley and Gunn. And like I said it was blatantly obvious they both liked her. She's either stupid or she lead them on. Either works for me lol.
Yes I blame Fred for Wes/Gunn's friendship dissolving. Mostly because she was the cause whether its her fault or not is up for interpretation.
M
msfantastico87
ok i think you cleared it up for me :)
It was definitely not Fred's fault that they destroyed their friendship. Also, I think she was oblivious to Wesley loving her. Which i'll admit is pretty stupid 😕
MinwaraYana
Countess Von Drunkaton
Okay, this is my thought on 2 topics.
Fred's death: I don't think it's overrated. Like msfantastico said, they had to watch her in pain being taken over by Illyria. And the reason they mourned, it's not all about Fred. I think they(especially Angel) thought of all the soldiers that had to die, Doyle, Cordy and Fred. Angel must thought it's his fault to bring them in his team. And for Gunn and Wes, of course, they had every right to mourn. Fred's love of Wes' life. And Gunn took part of killing her.
And you can't blame her that there's 3 episodes focused on her death. Why We Fight was like a week after You're Welcome. But Shells was like a day after A Hole in the World. And you can't skip that. It had to be the scene where they found out about Knox and stuff. I bet they mourned a lot after Cordy died. It's just because Charisma is not Joss' favorite and she was called to act only in one episode.
Gunn/Fred/Wes: I think Fred SO knew Wes likes her. How could you not see when two guys are gonna hold your hands while you're watching ballet? And she really led them both on. She said "I can kiss you both". But after she chose Gunn, I don't think she led Wes on anymore.
Fred's death: I don't think it's overrated. Like msfantastico said, they had to watch her in pain being taken over by Illyria. And the reason they mourned, it's not all about Fred. I think they(especially Angel) thought of all the soldiers that had to die, Doyle, Cordy and Fred. Angel must thought it's his fault to bring them in his team. And for Gunn and Wes, of course, they had every right to mourn. Fred's love of Wes' life. And Gunn took part of killing her.
And you can't blame her that there's 3 episodes focused on her death. Why We Fight was like a week after You're Welcome. But Shells was like a day after A Hole in the World. And you can't skip that. It had to be the scene where they found out about Knox and stuff. I bet they mourned a lot after Cordy died. It's just because Charisma is not Joss' favorite and she was called to act only in one episode.
Gunn/Fred/Wes: I think Fred SO knew Wes likes her. How could you not see when two guys are gonna hold your hands while you're watching ballet? And she really led them both on. She said "I can kiss you both". But after she chose Gunn, I don't think she led Wes on anymore.
I'm almost at the end of season 3 ans I can stand her a lil bit more. She has less this "I'm-so-defenceless-and-innoncent" attitude, she's already much more active.
But I keep think there's something very annoying in the way she talks, and no it isn't her natural voice or her accent that bugs me.
I've watched a few Ilyria scenes and I had no huh-reaction when she was talking, and I didn't have any problem either with Amy Acker's cameo in How I met your mother.
I guess it's a brilliant performance to make me dislike only one character she plays!
That thing that bugs me is that, while speaking, she kind of speak in a grumbling-shivering kind of way. It's hard to explain, but I sure can say it's not Amy Acker's voice that bugs me but the way Fred talks!
But I keep think there's something very annoying in the way she talks, and no it isn't her natural voice or her accent that bugs me.
I've watched a few Ilyria scenes and I had no huh-reaction when she was talking, and I didn't have any problem either with Amy Acker's cameo in How I met your mother.
I guess it's a brilliant performance to make me dislike only one character she plays!
That thing that bugs me is that, while speaking, she kind of speak in a grumbling-shivering kind of way. It's hard to explain, but I sure can say it's not Amy Acker's voice that bugs me but the way Fred talks!
D
DarlaDru
Guest
She has been pleasant to me, I don't her at all. I think, her character doesn't fit in the AI gang. She is to geeky and irritating. The gang without her was best....