Does Buffy Believe in God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter FiveByFiveB
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I tend to think along the same lines as Spike Lover with this one. Also, when Darla said "God doesn't want you..." I just took it as an expression. I never analyzed it so seriously. I think of it as something like 'oh my god!' People say that all the time but that doesn't mean they believe in God. It's used so often that it has simply come to mean 'Wow!' 🙂
 
I should add that although this is a sci-fi series, the Buffyverse is an extension of our--that is, the spectator's--own world. It takes place in a real and reliable way, in a world that is not yet reality. So on that basis, there exists many faiths, many monotheistic--whether the Scoobies subscribe to these faiths is capriciously irrelevant. Not only because they know what they know, i.e. the existence of demons and also of self-described gods, but because it is fundamentally insignificant to the inner workings of the show.
 
There is a belief in Heaven and Hell in the programme, so maybe that means that for them to exist, there would have to be God & Satan.......... i really havent got a clue! 😛

It'd be hard for the Scoobies to believe in God considering all the bad luck they seem to have. You'd think 'Well what has God done to benefit me?' in their case he hasnt done much.

I think they believe in Gods, but not just one God. They are definatley not Christians if they believe in numerous Gods becuase Christians strictly believe in only one God, and not only have they come across people worshipping other Gods, but they have fought Gods themselves.
 
Originally posted by JenniLou
I should add that although this is a sci-fi series, the Buffyverse is an extension of our--that is, the spectator's--own world. It takes place in a real and reliable way, in a world that is not yet reality. So on that basis, there exists many faiths, many monotheistic--whether the Scoobies subscribe to these faiths is capriciously irrelevant. Not only because they know what they know, i.e. the existence of demons and also of self-described gods, but because it is fundamentally insignificant to the inner workings of the show.
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So what youre saying is that while buffy is supposed to have a certain amount if realism in it, as far as the whole humanity part (obviously not demons etc! lol) goes, the whole idea of religion is that actually insignificant and unimportant for the show to work. Therefore, there is no right answer shown, as it just hasnt been talked about or defined yet as it hasnt come up. Is that what you are saying?! ???
I may be totally wrong (lol - maybe your complex thoughts are too much for me!? 😉) though!

😀
 
Originally posted by Spike Lover
So what youre saying is that while buffy is supposed to have a certain amount if realism in it, as far as the whole humanity part (obviously not demons etc! lol) goes, the whole idea of religion is that actually insignificant and unimportant for the show to work. Therefore, there is no right answer shown, as it just hasnt been talked about or defined yet as it hasnt come up. Is that what you are saying?! ???😀
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Pretty much. Sci-Fi thrives on the personification of objects, themes, etc. They are used to metaphorically enhance the narrative by juxtaposing the real against the unreal. The writers of 'Buffy' have stipulated that the demons they create are merely metaphors for the human emotions they are examining. Essentially, that is what science-fiction is about. If you look at films such as Dark City and Blade Runner you will see that the do much the same thing; that is, humanity is scrutinized through the eyes of beings that are less than human. Likewise, the humans in the narratives must also examine themselves.

So the fantasy world of 'Buffy' does not differ from our own save for the fact that vampires and demons exist among the milieu. What I am saying is that religion is a part of 'Buffy''s world, but it is not significant to the issues at hand and therefore, is--appropriately--never addressed.

I have many thoughts on this topic of science-fiction. I am in the process of researching material for a text book I am writing on science-fiction film and television.
 
Originally posted by JenniLou


Pretty much. Sci-Fi thrives on the personification of objects, themes, etc. They are used to metaphorically enhance the narrative by juxtaposing the real against the unreal. The writers of 'Buffy' have stipulated that the demons they create are merely metaphors for the human emotions they are examining. Essentially, that is what science-fiction is about. If you look at films such as Dark City and Blade Runner you will see that the do much the same thing; that is, humanity is scrutinized through the eyes of beings that are less than human. Likewise, the humans in the narratives must also examine themselves.

So the fantasy world of 'Buffy' does not differ from our own save for the fact that vampires and demons exist among the milieu. What I am saying is that religion is a part of 'Buffy''s world, but it is not significant to the issues at hand and therefore, is--appropriately--never addressed.


I have many thoughts on this topic of science-fiction. I am in the process of researching material for a text book I am writing on science-fiction film and television.
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That's a really good point. Buffy is meant to be realistic (exept for the demons, vampires, etc.) so what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense. Religion must exist in their world, they've just not touched on the topic. Like I said earlier, I'm glad that they keep religion out of the mix.

You're so good at putting your thoughts into words! LOL I do analyze these types of things very much, put sometimes I tend to sound like a babbling idiot when I try to write out my thoughts! 😀
 
Originally posted by queenofbuffdom86
You're so good at putting your thoughts into words! LOL I do analyze these types of things very much, put sometimes I tend to sound like a babbling idiot when I try to write out my thoughts! 😀
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Thanks, but shut up about yourself! This is just what I do. I am a writer so I articulate my thoughts with words when I'm typing. Believe me when I say that when I speak I am not nearly as eloquent.

Besides, you all have excellent insights and I have enjoyed posting in this thread with you.
 
Wow, JenniLou...Just when I thought you couldn't get any more interesting. First you seem so intelligent because of your overall writing, and now a text book on science-fiction film and television. That's pretty amazing.

I was just watching a couple of episodes of Buffy and then I came across a scene with Willow and Cordelia. They are trapped inside some closet in the school (episode School Hard). They are hiding from Spike and this is what they say:
---------------
Cordelia: I think he's gone.
Willow: He could come back!
Cordelia: What are we gonna do?
Willow: Pray.

Then later we see Cordelia on the ground praying:

Cordelia: And if you get me out of this, I swear I'll never be mean to anyone ever again. Unless they really deserve it. Or if it's that time of the month, in which case I don't think you or anyone else can hold me responsible...
---------------
Well...that doesn't exactly mean that they believe in "God" later on, but I just wanted to point out that it happened.

I think we've said everything that could have been said about this. And I just wanted to thank everybody for trying to answer my question. Kinda got more than I was asking for.
 
Originally posted by FiveByFiveB
Wow, JenniLou...Just when I thought you couldn't get any more interesting. First you seem so intelligent because of your overall writing, and now a text book on science-fiction film and television. That's pretty amazing.

I think we've said everything that could have been said about this. And I just wanted to thank everybody for trying to answer my question. Kinda got more than I was asking for.
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Thanks, Five. I'm glad I came across the thread and got it back on the New Posts list so people knew it was here...some good discussion has been had.
 
Originally posted by JenniLou


Pretty much. Sci-Fi thrives on the personification of objects, themes, etc. They are used to metaphorically enhance the narrative by juxtaposing the real against the unreal. The writers of 'Buffy' have stipulated that the demons they create are merely metaphors for the human emotions they are examining. Essentially, that is what science-fiction is about. If you look at films such as Dark City and Blade Runner you will see that the do much the same thing; that is, humanity is scrutinized through the eyes of beings that are less than human. Likewise, the humans in the narratives must also examine themselves.

So the fantasy world of 'Buffy' does not differ from our own save for the fact that vampires and demons exist among the milieu. What I am saying is that religion is a part of 'Buffy''s world, but it is not significant to the issues at hand and therefore, is--appropriately--never addressed.

I have many thoughts on this topic of science-fiction. I am in the process of researching material for a text book I am writing on science-fiction film and television.
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Ah - i totally get what you mean. Its obviously part fo their world, as it is part of the world, but its not really significant to their battles with their (sometimes inner) demons.
Very impressed with your writing too! Glad youre here! 🙂
5by5, i saw that episode a few weeks ago! Youre completely right! Its the only example i can think of that, when in mortal danger, one of the scoobies has started praying. And yes, its obviously here, the G-d, as in one and only. Therefore cordelia, having never mentioned Judaism, is implying most likely Christianity. However i dont really take this to mean anything other than a comic moment where cordy has nothing else to do to help herself other than pray - i dont really think shes religious! Lol, nor a sweet sunday-school church girl! 😉
Thanks, hunni, for starting this great topic!

😀
 
Originally posted by JenniLou


Thanks, but shut up about yourself! This is just what I do. I am a writer so I articulate my thoughts with words when I'm typing. Believe me when I say that when I speak I am not nearly as eloquent.

Besides, you all have excellent insights and I have enjoyed posting in this thread with you.
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Um, I'm kind of confused. Did I appear to be conceited or self-centered or something? Do I talk about myself that much?🙁
 
Originally posted by queenofbuffdom86


Um, I'm kind of confused. Did I appear to be conceited or self-centered or something? Do I talk about myself that much?🙁
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No! I was being sarcastic, honey. Didn't mean to confuse you. I think you're totally sweet!😀 😉 😀 😉
 
Originally posted by queenofbuffdom86


Um, I'm kind of confused. Did I appear to be conceited or self-centered or something? Do I talk about myself that much?🙁
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Lol - i (the one who was slow on your "welcome aboard" pun 😉) understood straight away she was saying you shouldnt insult or put yourself down! Lol, and i agree sweetie! Youre very sweet!

😀
 
Oooooooooooooooooh. Ok. Got it. Good. I'm glad no one's angry with me. 😀 Usually I pick up on sarcasm since I tend to be kind of sarcastic, but I guess I was having a slow day. Lol 😉
 
Maybe Buffy believes that she is her own God. I know that's what I believe. We make our own desicions about things in life and so does Buffy. I think that she believes in a 50/50 way if you know what I mean. There is something there that tries to help you but then why would it bring so much evil!
 
Originally posted by Vail2002
Maybe Buffy believes that she is her own God. I know that's what I believe. We make our own desicions about things in life and so does Buffy. I think that she believes in a 50/50 way if you know what I mean. There is something there that tries to help you but then why would it bring so much evil!
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So you have an existentialist point of view. Free will and what not. We govern our lives by making our own choices, our own decisions. We are in control of our destinies. I rewatched 'AfterLife' last night and Buffy said, "I don't understand theology, any of it really. But I think I was in heaven." It seems Buffy herself doesn't know what exactly is out there for her, only that it is there. Whether it be god or a place of contentment after death. Still, I say it makes no difference in the series.
 
Youre right, its that whole "irrelevance" thing we talked about earlier! 🙂
But you made a good point and gave a different point of view, Vail!

😀
 
Let's look at this logically...Buffy believes that she was in Heaven. Now, believing in God is the Number One thing that gets one into Heaven. Now, you can kill all the vampires you can, you can save the world from the apocalypse, and sacrifice yourself so your sister can live, but if you don't believe in that very succient and, may I say, relevant detail, you just don't get in. Furthermore, the course of vampire literature has nothing more than pitted the evil un-dead(those who have no soul) against righteous men. Just look at the Vampire Hunters in "Dracula." Granted, they had stakes and swords, but the prime weapons that Van Helsing uses to defeat Dracula are the cross and the Host. Or if you have every seen the movie "The Fearless Vampire Hunters" the Star of David. Throughout the entire series, the Scoobies have used the cross against Vampires. Buffy even wears one around the neck. Now, she isn't doing a Jennifer Aniston thing--wearing it as a decoration--but the cross--the actual piece of wood--is useless without having any believe or faith in God. Does anyone remember "Fright Night?"(You have to have faith, Mr. Vincent) ..Of course, though, I don't know what Ira Rosenburg would say if she find her only daughter nailing crosses in her bedroom to keep out Angel. Let alone, sneaking out every Xmas to see Xander do the Snoopy dance when they watch "It's a Charlie Brown Xmas."




But, I heard that Xander does a good Snoopy imitation to begin with...
 
Originally posted by gman992
Let's look at this logically...Buffy believes that she was in Heaven. Now, believing in God is the Number One thing that gets one into Heaven. Now, you can kill all the vampires you can, you can save the world from the apocalypse, and sacrifice yourself so your sister can live, but if you don't believe in that very succient and, may I say, relevant detail, you just don't get in. Furthermore, the course of vampire literature has nothing more than pitted the evil un-dead(those who have no soul) against righteous men. Just look at the Vampire Hunters in "Dracula." Granted, they had stakes and swords, but the prime weapons that Van Helsing uses to defeat Dracula are the cross and the Host. Or if you have every seen the movie "The Fearless Vampire Hunters" the Star of David. Throughout the entire series, the Scoobies have used the cross against Vampires. Buffy even wears one around the neck.
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Firstly I would argue that it is debatable that you must believe in God to ascend to heaven. Let me give you an example: Constantine the Great used the Christian flag to defeat his enemies in a pivotal battle. He was responsible for converting the Roman Empire to Christianity although he was not a Christian himself. Constantine discovered that the support of the Church was politically valuable. On his deathbed he converted to Christianity. Why had he spent so many years without converting himself? As he saw it, in case God did in fact exist he would be permitted to enjoy an afterlife in heaven. Does this gain him entrance to heaven? I think it's a bit obtuse to think that you must undeniably believe; it is what's in your heart that counts. If God exists he is omnipotent and all-knowing and could see past the callow acts of humans, see their inherent philanthopy despite their inability to accept his existence. But like I said, this is debatable.

Secondly, earlier in the thread we discussed the use of crucifixes and holy water. They aren't used in 'Buffy' as religious imagery and references, but as part of the mythos. A show about vampires without these intrinsic tools essential to the myth would not work; it would cheapen the vampire lore. Religion is ambiguous in the show; it doesn not mean the characters believe or don't believe in a particular creed or faith. It's insignificant to the series anyway.
 
Yes, but the crosses/holy water wouldn't work without having faith behind them...other than that they have about a none-chance of working on a vampire...

As for God seeing people as callow and shallow, to quote Giles, "To forgive is an act of compassion, Buffy. It's, it's not done
because people deserve it. It's done because they need it."
 
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