Does Buffy care

U

Urgent Power

Potential
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
342
Age
40
Location
Cemetery
Clearly Buffy is not what she used to be, she always had a high respect for human's life. When "she" killed the mayor's deputy in season three, and when she thought she killed Katrina, she took it real hard. Also, the things she told Faith after killing a human being, it showed how shaken up she was about it. And there are more examples.

But then in season 7, girls started getting killed. From Annabell, the first potential who died that she knew of, then Chloe, and then many other girls. So in episode 'Empty Places", she wanted back in, into another fight where more girls might die. But did she care at that point if these girls - humans, with souls - die? During this season, did she apologize? Did she lose her respect for human's life?
 
Good point Urgent Power. I never thought Buffy cold-hearted for her treatment of the girls in season 7 I think she saw the bigger picture which was loose a few to save a million or so. I think when the first couple of potentials died she cared but as the fight grew she realized. I don't think she lost her respect for human life, I think just the opposite she gained a greater perspective. She had her army, they followed her into war, but the difference is we don't have time to mourn the dead.
 
I think you can see her starting to see the "big picture" and having to make really hard hard calls to keep others safe at the end of season 5 even. When the Byzantine knights are chasing them, and there's that fight scene on top of the winnebago... she definitely kills a bunch of those knights. Now of course, their intent was to harm them, but at one point you see Buffy throw an ax at one of the knights, clearly killing him. I think that this epi was a pivotal point in the show.
 
I think Buffy saw the Potentials much like she saw Kendra or Faith--as Slayers, and as such, in the same danger she was in every day. To her, them dying wasn't the same as her killing a "regular" human being. And she didn't kill them, so she didn't feel as responsible as she did when the Deputy Mayor was killed or when she thought she killed Katrina. The DM (who's name I have COMPLETELY forgotten) and Katrina were innocent bystanders who were mostly unaware of or powerless in the fight against demons, and didn't deserve to die, especially not at the hands of a Slayer. Buffy was upset when Kendra died, but she wasn't nearly catatonic like she was when Faith killed the DM or she thought she'd killed Katrina. She may have felt somewhat responsible for Kendra and all of the Potentials, but she knew that when it came down to it, it wasn't her fault. It was the fault of whatever--or whoever--actually killed them.
 
S
Spirit_Of_Fred
DM = Finch :)
W
Winchester
[No message]
EveryNiteISaveU said:
I think you can see her starting to see the "big picture" and having to make really hard hard calls to keep others safe at the end of season 5 even. When the Byzantine knights are chasing them, and there's that fight scene on top of the winnebago... she definitely kills a bunch of those knights. Now of course, their intent was to harm them, but at one point you see Buffy throw an ax at one of the knights, clearly killing him. I think that this epi was a pivotal point in the show.
Click to expand...

Heh, I actually watched that recently, and had to stop and say, "WTF? Buffy just killed a human!" because I'd thought that had never happened...

I think in S5, Buffy's mindset was that nothing was more important than the people she loved. She was willing to let the world be destroyed if it meant not killing Dawn. But by S7, she realized there's something bigger than those she loves..the world. I don't think she didn't care about the girls. She clearly did - we saw how upset she was at having to dig their graves. But she also understood that sacrifices had to be made. These girls and their little army were the only hope the world had, the only defense against the First. She had to be a little cold and callous. Most generals are.
 
Yeah, I think Buffy totally lost herself while looking at the "big picture". She totally let go of love, and became the cold general.

But all is well, because at the end, she recognizes this and quits taking the others' devotion to her for granted. Only then was she strong enough to face the First.
 
I think that she was beginning to realize something that Wesley stated best in Angel when he was planning the assault on the castle in Pylea. When Gunn pointed out that part of Wes' plan included intentionally sacrificing part of his force in order to achieve victory, Wes said, " If I try to save them all, I'll wind up getting them all killed." I think that Buffy, by Season 7, came to understand that. She still cared when a member of her little army was killed or injured, but she had finally come to accept the fact that it was inevitable.
 
The thing is, I think Buffy tells us exactly what we need to know to answer this question in "Conversations with Dead People":

Buffy:"I feel like I'm worse than anyone. Honestly, I'm beneath them. My friends, my boyfriend ... I feel like I'm not worthy of their love. Because even though they love me, it doesn't mean anything, because their opinions don't matter. They don't know. They haven't been through what I've been through. They're not the Slayer ... I am. Sometimes I feel — this is awful — I feel like I'm better than them ... superior."

Someone told me this once about Buffy, and I believe it's true: Superman himself could show up in Sunnydale, and Buffy would still think she was better than him. "Forget the fact that Willow is actually more powerful than Buffy by season six; Buffy would think she’s superior to Superman. Because, y’know, he just doesn’t understand her burden."
 
I love that quote avataroftruth, and I think it was something Buffy struggled with her whole life as being the slayer, knowing that she is better than them. I def believe that if superman would fly into town she would think she's superior, and why wouldn't she be? Because he can fly and super human strength? Nope, because she doesn't understand her burden.
 
I wanted to say something very intelligent and to the point here, but basically everything I wanted to say, has already been said: I think the important thing is, that Buffy came to realize that she was saving the world (6 billion) by sacrifising a couple of people. She must have felt horrible about it, and sometimes she also shows she feels guilty but she's really grown up now, with fighting the Big Bad and all, so she knows she can't go crying over everyone she loses. She knows the big picture is what matters. Thats it, basically. ^^
 
Casualties of war are common place and during war time, casualties happen. Buffy could not stop the deaths that occurred, nor should she - sacrifices have to be made for the greater good - just look at all those people who risked and lost their lives during World War 2. Every mission that a soldier goes on could be his or her last - they know the risks prior to signing on and accept those risks because they know what they're doing is right and proper.

Buffy's reaction to the deaths of humans is only natural - everyone, unless you're a cold blooded, heartless thing would be the same as hers. Death effects everyone differently - if it's a death caused by you yourself then you take it differently to someone who just happens to come along and see the corpse - your reactions as someone who has caused another living being to stop existing are totally different to those who witness the aftermath of the event.

As for Buffy being superior or feeling superior, well - she is just that. Prior to the slayer's power being transferred to all those who have the potential she was (almost) unique and the pressure on her shoulders was / is immense. The everyday problems we as normal mortals have day-to-day are nothing compared to what Buffy has - and I don't think that you, I or anyone else would or could cope with that pressure and stay "normal" - having the superior strength, the superior morality in respect to the thought that what you're doing as a slayer is the right thing to do etc etc must be a huge burden to carry.
 
I think people tend to react too harshly against Buffy in season seaven. Frankly, I've always felt she was mostly in the right throughout that season. I don't think Buffy deciding the girls should go back in "Empty Places" is a sign that she'd become cold at all. The girls were being put in danger, but absolutely everyone was in danger if they did nothing. And the way those potentials treat her in her own home after that....well, I was actually hoping more of them would die after that! I was even pretty disgusting with Willow, Giles, and Xander (although if memory serves, what he said wasn't as bad as what Willow and Giles were saying) in that episode. And don't even get me started on Dawn.
 
AvatarofTruth said:
Someone told me this once about Buffy, and I believe it's true: Superman himself could show up in Sunnydale, and Buffy would still think she was better than him. "Forget the fact that Willow is actually more powerful than Buffy by season six; Buffy would think she's superior to Superman. Because, y'know, he just doesn't understand her burden."
Click to expand...

At first, I kind of rolled my eyes about this part of Buffy's personality, but upon reflection, I think there's really something there. The example of Superman's a great one (well, it is if you're familiar with the guy, I guess). He chooses to use his gifts to help people and puts a burden on himself. The self-sacrifice and risks he takes are completely voluntary. His reward is to see good done and he doesn't have to make any compromises because he set the rules for his game (since he volunteered).

Buffy is chosen and fights hard to live up to a certain standard even though she doesn't always understand anything beyond staking the next vampire. I think she's fighting hard to overcome a dichotomy in Season 7. You have on one side a girl whose job is to kill vampires. On the other side, we see a girl whose only credentials are that she's lived long enough to excel at the first job - but now she's taking on the greatest evil in the world. At that point, she's got to be thinking "I did not sign on for this!" She doesn't get to set the rules; she is still trying to live up to a standard that equals the one women in the past have died to uphold. The difference is that they did not, by and large, have to measure up in the face of such a large task/enemy.

So, yeah, I think it's really true that "no one understands her burden."

I also think that reconciling these issues forces her to act cold, almost cruel. I think she's doing what she can to force the best quality out of the potentials, since their lives depend on it. Unfortunately, their scope just isn't as large as hers, and so they clash.
 
Very interesting thread. I believe as many have said, one of things that defined Buffy is her belief in the inherent value of human life. Now many have talked about the death being inevitable in war but this isn't her problem as I see it. Buffy was under extreme pressure in Season 7 to take care of a bunch of girls who have never been trained for battle, having to contend with a witch who is afraid of her own power and a vampire who'd rather make kissey faces at her rather than become a useful warrior for the cause, so it's hardly surprising that she snaps. So let us make no mistake, her reaction was an emotional one rather than a totally calculated one. The FE did their homework, her strength is her emotions and the people around her. It gives her that fire and the purpose to be a good slayer. However when Buffy is under stress she finds herself in the land of not dealing and cutting herself off. She does it in Fear Itself, she even does it with Riley.

This was her only way of dealing with the casualties, by being cold and cutting herself off from the very people who could give her the strength she needed. One Buffy reassesed or indeed had time to reasses she came back with avengeance.
 
You know I don't even think it's about causalties of war. Well it is, but everyone's world is about desensitization. Think of all the things you thought you wouldn't do as a kid (some you consider boarderline retarded that you thought you never would) but you make all these steps that get you to that place, and you rationalize every step of the way. Buffy did that, and it makes sense that she did from a psychological stand point.
 
I don't think Buffy stopped caring at ALL. But as the Slayer, she had to separate herself from her feelings long enough to get through the apocolypse AGAIN. Notice how she gets "hard" toward the end of every season? Seemingly shutting others out, being insensitive to those around her... I don't think it was that she didn't care, but that she was trying to distance herself from it so she wouldn't screw up, you know?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom