Does Oz deserve a free pass?

[msfantastico87]

didn't see another thread about this anywhere, so I jumped on the opportunity to do it 😛

Ok, So I was having a discussion with other BB members about this earlier tonight and I was wondering what else others think on the subject. Pretty much, I believe whole heartedly that Oz cheated. It hurts me so much that he cheated because he knows what it feels like. I mean, Willow didn't cheat. A kiss isn't cheating. but he knew how it felt to feel betrayed and he turns around and does it right back. Another member claims that he did not cheat and that he deserves a free pass because he was a werewolf the time it happened, and not actually Oz at the moment. I'll get more in depth on what I think, but before I do that, I wanna hear what you guys think.

My questions to you are:

-Do you think Oz cheated?
-If you don't, why do you think he didn't?
-If you do, do you think he deserves a free pass? Why or why not?

 

[Zeppo]

Oz cheated. He cheated because he needed to stop Veruca from killing; her bad actions put him in danger too. He does want her, the animal side anyway. Would he have slept with her if she was a domesticated wolfy like him? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he would've left before that happened. What he did he did for a greater purpose than just getting his rocks off. Free pass? Hmm, in the long run yes.

 

[charmedones193]

-Do you think Oz cheated? Yes
-If you do, do you think he deserves a free pass? Why or why not? No

 

[prophecygrrl]

-Do you think Oz cheated?
Yep. He was a werewolf at the time, but the second time with Veruca he consciously made a choice to be with her. Yes, he thought it was the only choice to stop her from endangering lives, and very likely in that situation it was the only choice. BUT, I think if he talked about his suspicions about Veruca and the first time he realized he slept with her when he was all wolfy, especially with ahem, his girlfriend, he could've prevented having to choose between cheating on Willow and letting Veruca endanger people in the first place. Even if other people don't consider it technically cheating, he did lie to Willow. That's enough to disqualify him for a free pass from me. No cookies for you, Oz! :eviltongu

But I do like Oz and Woz for the most part. I just think Oz was a jerk with the whole Veruca thing. And besides, them breaking up led to Tara and Tillow, so...😀

 

[Bexieh]

I think it's a really tough situation and I really wish he HADN'T done it, but what he did do, he gets in our bad books for cheating. If he didn't do it, he would be in our bad books for allowing Veruca to take innocent lives. I think he really had no good choice to make. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. So in that respect, I think it is different from an everyday cheating, like if he just met an ordinary girl on the street and cheated on Will with her, I think it would be worse, if that makes sense? Not that I condone cheating of any kind... I still think he was wrong but I don't think he should be blamed as much...Urgh this is kinda hard to explain without sounding like I'm procheating or something 😛 I hardly expected Willow to forgive him, because what he did was really harsh, but I don't think he realistically had many other options to go with. To me it was just all round bad luck, so I don't really blame him for what he did. Even though when I first saw it I was ready to kill him 😛
It's a tough question really.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

I think he does deserve a free pass. In my opinion it's like the soulless vampires killing without remorse, they're not really themselves anymore. I see werewolves as the same thing sort of, as soon as they start to turn they don't have control anymore, they're not the person for that time.
On top of that, even when Oz was human, when he saw Veruca for the first time, he instantly noticed her. Even that I think was the wolf instincts coming through.

Of course it wasn't good what he did, but I think a free pass is in order.
However, the taking off and leaving Willow part is less forgivable, in my opinion. You don't just do that in a realationship. You're supposed to solve your problems together, not just take off. So that's the part I'm having more of an issue with.

 

[Taake]

1. Yes I think he cheated

2. Does he deserve a free pass? - No! He made a choice, a concious choice, and even if it was for the 'greater good' in the case there are always consequences. You make your bed you lie in it and all that...
I don't think Oz would have wanted a free pass himself. Had he stayed he wouldn't have expected Willow's immediate forgiveness, especially as he knows what it's like to be cheated on... He would have wanted to earn her trust back. Also I think he knew that maybe he could have handled the Veruca situation differently.

 

[Gotham]

-Do you think Oz cheated?

Yeah I do, Oz noticed the attraction in human form. Even if it was an overwhelming animalistic feeling, he should have been man enough to stay the hell away from her.

By the way, in my opinion Willow did cheat. A kiss is cheating in my book, and repeated fumbles definitely constitute as cheating in my book.

 

[Flannen]

Firstly, since when is kissing is not cheating? I can appreciate that could be different circumstances where kissing is concerned but what Willow did: definitely cheating. My boyfriend kissed someone else like that? Um, bye! lol. As far as I'm concerned sending text messages of a particular nature to someone who isn't your partner is pretty much up there with cheating.

But back to Oz. Yes, unfortunately, he did cheat. If it was only that first time when he woke up next to her after they'd came across each other when they were both transformed, I'd be prepared to say he should get a free pass for that. But, he knew exactly what would happen when he put Veruca in that cage for him. I believe that his reasons for doing it were to stop her from killing and whatnot, I don't think he did so that that could happen again, but he knew it was inevitable and he still did it.

I can't stand cheating which is why the fact I just said all that pains me because I love Oz.

And just going back to Willow quickly, despite agreeing that Oz made a conscious decision, I still get more angry/disappointed with what Willow did, I think.

 

[Mumrik]

This may come out very convoluted, because at this point in the story, these are two of my favourite characters.

First off, Willow did cheat. She didn't just kiss Xander, she flirted with him over a long time period, knew she felt more and did her best to hide it. The hiding thing here is the thing that matters, because she knew what she did was wrong, had a guilty conscience about it but continued to do so anyway. That's conscious cheating. Oz was completely right in what he said to her, she betrayed him the same way he betrayed her (if not worse, which is my opinion. At least he had a good reason, while with her it was just teenage hormones). What's not right about it is, that he brought it up at all since he forgave her, no matter if he was right or not. He said it just to hurt her.

Secondly, I believe it's hard to tell. I'm usually a person who sees very black and white, but even I know this situation has a lot of angles that have to be taken into consideration. I don't think he deserves a free pass, but I think he does deserve mitigating circumstances. He obviously wasn't in control of what he did because of the whole wolf form thing, but he knew he was attracted her. He felt it when he was human, too. He tried to blame it on the whole connection because they're both werewolves but that doesn't change the fact that he knew. So he should have known better than to lock someone in a cage with him, especially when he isn't in control of himself and is completely instict-driven most of the time they're in that cage. At least that's what he should have done as a boyfriend. But, here's the thing. As someone else pointed out, he was trying to do the right thing as he did it. He made a conscious decision to not let a werewolf who has no qualms with murdering people run about, which is a good thing, no matter which way you're looking at it. But he shouldn't have lied to Willow either, he should have come clean with her.

To conclude, I don't think Willow is in any position to condemn his actions. She cheated on him, too, when she was completely conscious of her actions, while he cheated on her when he wasn't himself and while he tried to do some good. I think that's a huge point to take into consideration. I don't think it's fair at all that Willow seems to get the higher ground on this argument. They both did wrong and only time cold have showed if they could have worked it out. Of course, that didn't happen, what with Oz leaving and all. (Just a sidenote: Oz himself didn't think he deserved a free pass. He knew he messed up as a boyfriend and if Willow had just forgiven him all of a sudden, that wouldn't have worked either.)

 

[frankie]

Willow cheated! Her and Xander were completely aware of what they were doing and that it was wrong. I think she got more of a free-pass than Oz did. He forgave her and took her back. I don't think Oz got a free-pass. He left his home and the woman he loved because he knew what he did was wrong and he needed to change who he was. As for the cheating. The initial attraction to Veruca I think was the werewolf link between them. The first time they were together was again the werewolf part of them. The next time was definitely more Oz. There was a connection between them and he was attracted to her, it may have been the werewolf fueling that attraction but what he did was wrong. He could have told Buffy, that Veruca was a danger but instead he locked them in a cage together because I think he was attracted to her or what they had in common. If the werewolf wasn't a common factor between them though, I don't think he would even have looked twice at Veruca.
I think it was a good thing he left though. It's nice to see a Buffy character taking responsibility for the bad things that they do and trying to change.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Man, yeah I don't think either Willow or Oz deserved a free pass just on the basis of cheating alone. However, Oz left to go fix his problem because he needed to do this to earn Willow's trust, and for that I think he deserves the free pass as he told her what his mission was while he was away.

But then the writers messed that up by not having Oz contact Willow in any format, and he loses the free pass again.

"Oz, don't you love me?"
"My whole life? I've never loved anything more....but I'm not going to contact you even though I'm that in love with you."

It doesn't make sense! Oh writers, how you break my heart so.

 

[brinkster130]

Do you think Oz cheated? Yes.

If you do, do you think he deserves a free pass? Why or why not? No. I don't think there are ever free passes when it comes to cheating in a relationship. I think Oz knew exactly what was going to happen that night and the fact that he decided to go through with it (despite whatever good intentions he may have had) makes him responsible for it.

A kiss isn't cheating.

What about repeated Kissing?

For the record I think Willow did cheat. Her and Xander were having secret make-out sessions repeatedly! Willow and Xander both knew it would devastate both Oz and Cordy (something they acknowledged numerous times) but they continued to kiss. I think the fact that they kissed on numerous different occasions puts them in the cheaters category. (Not to mention the fact they feel so guilty about it themselves tells me they are in the wrong.)

 

[msfantastico87]

Ok, I think I should have been more specific in what I mean about Willow. Yes, I agree that she too cheated, but what differs is the severity. I should have kept my mouth shut about Willow lol Anyways...

I don't think Oz would have wanted a free pass himself. Had he stayed he wouldn't have expected Willow's immediate forgiveness, especially as he knows what it's like to be cheated on... He would have wanted to earn her trust back. Also I think he knew that maybe he could have handled the Veruca situation differently.

Agreed 100% Couldn't have said it better myself. I would give you ten thousand Karma points for that if I could.

And just going back to Willow quickly, despite agreeing that Oz made a conscious decision, I still get more angry/disappointed with what Willow did, I think.

Really? Why do you get more upset with what Willow did? I mean, Oz's cheating was more severe.

but he knew he was attracted her. He felt it when he was human, too. He tried to blame it on the whole connection because they're both werewolves but that doesn't change the fact that he knew. So he should have known better than to lock someone in a cage with him, especially when he isn't in control of himself and is completely instict-driven most of the time they're in that cage.

This. 100000 times this!

I think he does deserve a free pass. In my opinion it's like the soulless vampires killing without remorse, they're not really themselves anymore. I see werewolves as the same thing sort of, as soon as they start to turn they don't have control anymore, they're not the person for that time.
On top of that, even when Oz was human, when he saw Veruca for the first time, he instantly noticed her. Even that I think was the wolf instincts coming through.

See this is the thing that gets me. Oz shouldn't be compared to a soulless vampire because, well, he's not. He's mostly human and occasionally turns into a werewolf. Oz was trying to control himself as a werewolf. Also, He has a soul. Which remains within him even as a werewolf. He still feels guilt and remorse and what not. Deep down, he knew what he was doing. I don't think it's fair to put him in the same league as, say, Spike. It' a completely different thing. Oz knew he could control himself as a werewolf. He could feel everything horrible he had down deep down, although he could never admit it to himself. Why do you think he tried to control it? You just can't put him in the same level as a vampire. Vampires are known to do things without having a guilty conscience. Not werewolves. When they first turn, of course they would have no recollection of what happens, but the more times they turn, wouldn't they be more aware of their actions with each turning? He still has a soul. Even as a werewolf. So it still makes it completely wrong.

Now as for deserving a free pass...hardly!The difference between Willow cheating and Oz cheating is the severity. Some of you may think "Oh, well cheating is cheating no matter what." I can agree with this up to a certain point. I know Willow kissed Xander repeatedly and it doesn't make it awesome or whatever but Xander was Willow's first love. Of course she was going to want to test if she still had those feelings. I completely agree with Oz in giving her the silent treatment and all. At the end of the day, Oz triumphed and got his girl.

Oz on the other hand, he slept with Veruca. Yes it was in werewolf form but still, just because he wasn't in his human form doesn't mean it wasn't wrong. He knew it was wrong too. He felt the guilt and knew how severe it was and decided to leave Sunnydale, leaving Willow a mess, instead of talking it out with her.

I mean. I know Oz's intentions locking Veruca up with him were pure and all, but look what came out of it, and Oz knew just how bad it was.

 

[Flannen]

Really? Why do you get more upset with what Willow did? I mean, Oz's cheating was more severe.

Was it? I'm guessing that's because it was sex as opposed to a kiss? Not buying it, I'm afraid. Not 100% I agree with what I'm about to say but it just popped into my head: sex is always seen as something more 'severe' than a kiss or a flirty text, but on some levels it could actually be the other way round. What happened between Oz and Veruca was pure, animalistic instinct. But what Willow and Xander were doing was more like having an affair. Is a long term thing not more severe than a short term thing?

I don't blame Oz for the first time it happened. He was transformed and even though he has a soul, he isn't in control of himself when he's a wolfie. You say he could control himself? If he could why did he live for Tibet to find out how to control himself? Cos when he came back, that was him controlling it, he couldn't before. Also a lot of your post seems angry at Oz. Do you think he asked for or expected a free pass then?

 

[msfantastico87]

I'm not angry with Oz. I love him. and your post does make some sense now. I can see how kissing more long term can be more hurtful than sex. I can see that. But to me, he still has a soul, he's still conscience of what happening, so it's still wrong to me. know what i mean? I love Oz, and I know his intentions were to protect everyone, but it still feels wrong to me. And no i didn't expect he wanted a free pass

 

[dan k]

I find this very bizarre. What Oz did should be praised not labelled as cheating. Oz was protecting people, that was why he dragged Veruca in.

What else could he have done? Let Veruca leave and therefore put other people in danger? Instead he took a selfless decision and i have the utmost respect for what he did.

Of course he knew what he was doing but i don't think he thought he had any other option. He had to act quickly, had no time to think about things and made a decision thinking of others.

 

[Flannen]

I find this very bizarre. What Oz did should be praised not labelled as cheating. Oz was protecting people, that was why he dragged Veruca in.

What else could he have done? Let Veruca leave and therefore put other people in danger? Instead he took a selfless decision and i have the utmost respect for what he did.

Of course he knew what he was doing but i don't think he thought he had any other option. He had to act quickly, had no time to think about things and made a decision thinking of others.

I can see what you're saying but when you're girlfriend's best friend is a Slayer, you kind of do have another way of dealing with it. I love Oz, absolutely and totally, but he handled it wrong. Also, the motives for it don't make it any less cheating. He had sex with another woman/shewolf that wasn't his partner. That's cheating.

And msfantastico, I agree that what he did was wrong. But I don't agree that he was in control of himself as a wolf, soul or no soul.

Ah okay, cool. It just sounded like this came from you or someone saying that he wanted or expected one so I was just clarifying! 🙂

 

[Mumrik]

I'm not angry with Oz. I love him. and your post does make some sense now. I can see how kissing more long term can be more hurtful than sex. I can see that. But to me, he still has a soul, he's still conscience of what happening, so it's still wrong to me. know what i mean? I love Oz, and I know his intentions were to protect everyone, but it still feels wrong to me. And no i didn't expect he wanted a free pass

But the point is, he wasn't in control of himself (that was the point of him leaving, after all), no matter how conscious of what he did he was, while Willow had an affair of her own free will. She didn't act because of animalistic instincts, she could have ended it with Xander if she wanted to. But she didn't. The worst thing in cheating, to me, is mostly the betrayal of trust. So an affair is worse than a two-time deal that was mostly out of the control of the ones involved. It doesn't matter if Willow didn't have sex with Xander while Oz did with Veruca. The way she consciously lied to him over an extended period of time makes her betrayal of trust much greater than Oz's, who had nothing but good intentions. The same can't be said for Willow. Sadly, we can only guess if he had owned up to it if Willow hadn't caught him in the act, so to speak. They both wronged each other but I don't see how Oz's wrong was worse than Willow's.

 

[dan k]

I can see what you're saying but when you're girlfriend's best friend is a Slayer, you kind of do have another way of dealing with it.

There was no time to go to Buffy for help. As soon as he dragged her in they changed.