Dollhouse Re-watch (s2): "Meet Jane Doe" & "A Love Supreme"

[Taake]

rewatch discussion
episodes:
"Meet Jane Doe" (7) & "A Love Supreme" (8)​

Meet Jane Doe:
I don’t have a lot to say about this episode because I don’t really like it. Most of it just feels like exposition to me but I suppose that’s what happens when you have to make a three month jump. I don’t really care for the Echo/Paul relationship stuff here or them together on the outside at all… I feel so much more interested in what’s going on IN the Dollhouse. It just reminds me that this show would have been better of being less Echo-centric. (I know that it’s Dushku’s show technically but at this point I feel like she wasn’t strong enough of an actress or a name to carry a show. She came off from another failed show, a few horror movies and a supporting role in Buffy… it’s not really a name to build a show around)

The only thing that really moved/horrified me is the imprinting anyone without active architecture bit and Adelle betraying Topher, even if it’s with the goal of getting her house back. That hurt. I’m so much more excited for “A love supreme” which I love… Alpha ftw! 


A love Supreme

Alpha, yay! He’s a man who loves his madness and I love it too!

Love the idea of seeing someone having gone broke by obsession with a Doll. It’s an interesting angle. It’s an interesting story to think about … how he loves a woman who doesn’t even exist.


Up until now I’ve liked Adelle so much that I’ve forgotten how very scary she can be. I would not play poker with her cause she has heck of a poker face! I think she demonstrates throughout the episode how scary she can be and it makes it more believable to think of how she once got control of a Dollhouse, seeing this side of her.


Haha, I love Topher being all freaked out about Echo being a person. It’s obvious he has never considered this possibility or probably never even really thought of the Dolls as people at all.

Topher: “I know a conspiracy when I desperately try not to see one.”




Topher:“Is she a serial killer?”


Boyd: “Only a little” ​

Echo/Susan being hysterical and then just bam, wiping her tears and being fine, is a little… meh. Silly. Then they shouldn’t have made as big of a deal of Susan being hysterical and not listening to the “do you want a treatment”. I suppose they’re trying to show how Echo can control herself, turning the imprints on and off but here it just came across a bit ham-handed.


Love Echo and Alpha fight scene. I do like seeing Eliza get physical, she’s so good at it

​

Some more favorite lines:
​

Alpha: “There are many parts of me that knows this is wrong. None that care. And six that just find it funny.”
​

​

Joel Minor: “You’re with them now? You’re a little bit of a freak aren’t you? I don’t even know what to say to that.”
​

Alpha: “This isn’t like footsteps on the moon, many, many men have gone there before.
​

​

Boyd: “You have to put it together?”
​

Topher: “It’s the manufacturing room – not the it’s finished room.”
​

​

Alpha: “Boyfriend’s dead… wanna snuggle?” ​

I can’t help but love (in a horror struck way) that Alpha wipes Paul. It’s just so… awful. I feel so bad for Paul, I might not like him but that has to be his biggest nightmare and it’s just horribly tragic to see anyone have to suffer that way.


Random;
Boyd says - “I don’t book the clients.”
So question – who does? Just wondering. Do they have like a switch board? That seems funny to me.

 

[Blaze]

Ouf, had a long day at work, I will come by tomorrow to post my thoughts.

 

[sk]

I agree that Meet Jane Doe feels quite average. Especially after the last few episodes.
The Dollhouse stuff with Topher and Adelle is the interesting part. Echo's prison breakout doesn't get my attention.

Liked the little sex scene tease between Echo and Ballard though.
The typical cuts of them taking some clothes off just for them to start fight training instead. Must admit that it made me smile.

Adelle's betray surprised me. I'm kinda glad that I have such bad memory and can't recall all these twists.
Makes the re-watch so much more fun. 🙂

Also, poor Ivy. She looked so happy when Topher said he wanted to brainstorm just to be so let down when it turns out it was not with her.
Topher really treats her bad doesn't he.


For being an episode that resolves about dollhouse itself A Love Supreme left me surprisingly empty.
Sure, always fun to see Alpha. Alan Tudyk does a good job.
But somehow it doesn't felt that it gave me much. The state seems the same afterward.

Think it's because Alpha didn't seem to care about the dollhouse this time.
Not sure what his endgame was this time. Seek revenge on anyone that loved Echo?
I don't really care about some random clients, even if they did bring back some familiar faces, so it just didn't felt that important to me I guess.

My favorite line was probably Topher when he realized that Echo could switch personalities on her own.
- I am obsolete. This must be what old people feel like, and Blockbuster.

/SK

 

[Taake]

I agree that Meet Jane Doe feels quite average. Especially after the last few episodes.
The Dollhouse stuff with Topher and Adelle is the interesting part. Echo's prison breakout doesn't get my attention.

Liked the little sex scene tease between Echo and Ballard though.
The typical cuts of them taking some clothes off just for them to start fight training instead. Must admit that it made me smile.

Adelle's betray surprised me. I'm kinda glad that I have such bad memory and can't recall all these twists.
Makes the re-watch so much more fun. 🙂

Also, poor Ivy. She looked so happy when Topher said he wanted to brainstorm just to be so let down when it turns out it was not with her.
Topher really treats her bad doesn't he.


For being an episode that resolves about dollhouse itself A Love Supreme left me surprisingly empty.
Sure, always fun to see Alpha. Alan Tudyk does a good job.
But somehow it doesn't felt that it gave me much. The state seems the same afterward.

Think it's because Alpha didn't seem to care about the dollhouse this time.
Not sure what his endgame was this time. Seek revenge on anyone that loved Echo?
I don't really care about some random clients, even if they did bring back some familiar faces, so it just didn't felt that important to me I guess.

My favorite line was probably Topher when he realized that Echo could switch personalities on her own.
- I am obsolete. This must be what old people feel like, and Blockbuster.

/SK

I also like the Echo/Ballard fight scene sequence 🙂
I did remember Adelle's betrayal and yet it felt as effective and suprising as the first time!

Yes, poor Ivy. I really like and it's kind of funny sometimes how poorly Topher treats her but I do feel bad for her.

Obviously I loved A love supreme but at your comments I came to realize that I agree to some extent. Especially after frying Paul and a big fight scene and then... Alpha just walks away. It was kind of... a let down? I mean yes, he wants Echo and he was there to find out how to make her love him like she loves Paul (though really, does she love Paul all that much? Maybe she does and I just don't see it), but to then just walk out and... well, we don't see him again I think? (Until Epitath II I mean) It seems like his end game really wasn't that planned out, mostly it feels like the episode is about "yay Alpha that old nut is back" and then they don't know what to do with him so they just have him exit quietly. (Clearly getting in and out of the Dollhouse is a piece of cake when you're Alpha...)

 

[sk]

Yes, poor Ivy. I really like and it's kind of funny sometimes how poorly Topher treats her but I do feel bad for her.

Yeah, I feel so sorry for her. But I love Topher as the selfish prick that don't seems to understand how his action hurts.
It's just funny somehow.

It seems like his end game really wasn't that planned out, mostly it feels like the episode is about "yay Alpha that old nut is back" and then they don't know what to do with him so they just have him exit quietly. (Clearly getting in and out of the Dollhouse is a piece of cake when you're Alpha...)

Exactly, I was like okay... Was that it?
Oh, I was also supposed to comment on, but forget, how easy it seems to be for Alpha to come and go.
The security on Adele's Dollhous really needs to improve. lol

/SK

 

[Blaze]

conclusion, Eliza even looks hot as a homeless person. Second conclusion, I kind of love Echo, who needs to bring back Caroline again?

I don't like Pecho though. Pacho? Paulo? Pauline? Caraul? Let's not even name that ship. Paul is delusional about Echo being Caroline, I love that Echo told him she wasn't Caroline.

"And at least 7 times gay" Made me laugh, because I just thought of Buffy.

So I liked the episode, but I really wanted to know the inbetween stuff. How did Adele lose the house, how did Boyd and Paul ended up working together with Echo. I'm happy that they are exploring the events leading to Epitath!

I laughed at Victor and Sierra making out.

My favorite relationship on this show is definitely Adele and Topher. They have so much chemistry! The ending, wow, you just royally messed up Adele! Funny though, even when she's like that I still love her. It's really sad though when we know what happens to her and Topher. I know a lot of people think Epitath 1 should be watch as a two parter series finale, but I disagree. Epitath 1 made this season so much better because we're working backwards, I think this is a rare instance where knowing what happens improve the viewing. It makes it just so much more heartbreaking knowing where things are heading.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

'Meet Jane Doe'
I totally love Topher heartbreak over Bennet's betrayl.
"Where is this tree?" I love when Eliza plays dumb or confused, it's hilarious yet sweet and totally cute.
Poor Ivy, I loved her excitement at the idea of brainstorming with Topher.

So, how did Echo get a job as a nurse? I get she probably is using her knowledge from being a nurse but did Paul fake her identity and credentials? Cause they don't just let anyone be a nurse at a hospital.
Yea I don't like Paul and Echo playing house. I did like her retelling Paul that she's not Caroline. Slight glimpse of Faith when she talks about being sexually aggressive.

Despite the sexual undertones of the fight scene. I'm perfectly happy whenever Paul takes his shirt off 😉
So I'm not sure of Paul's motives. He loves her but he just wants to be friends?

Sierra and Victor kissing is so cute and I like that Topher is concerned about splitting them up.
So I'm really concerned that Topher lives in that back room, he's got clothes every where and pizza boxes. It's very, very sad.
I do like that Echo wants to break Gallena out of jail, since she is the reason she's there in the first place. It was cool to see Echo accessing different imprints to fit each task.
Adele in the end is just brilliant. She's so cold and unforgiving and everybody is just shocked. Poor Topher gets smacked by Adele, wow. Their relationship is great.

'A Love Supreme'
Again, I love Alan Tudyk. I want Alpha to have his own serial killer show like Dexter. He kind of feels a bit like the Joker. Alpha escaping again. Really? The thing about this episode is there was no set up to Alpha returning and I don't think any follow up either. This is where the show starts to feel rushed. Perhaps with more time, we could have found out that Echo's past lovers had died in a previous episode.

Again I love that Victor and Sierra are drawn to each other no matter what they are imprinted as. And I thought Sierra as a classy 1920's lady was nice.
I'm starting to see why Adele drinks so much. lol
I like Topher's realization that he's obsolete.
I like Adele's jab at Paul when he says Alpha is obsessed with Echo.
Okay so there's a long line of actives waiting to get wiped, way more than 26, so back to my question of what are the other actives names since there are only 26 names in the phonetic alphabet. I feel like this wasn't thought out well.

conclusion, Eliza even looks hot as a homeless person.

Yes. that is Eliza's super power, to look hot even when she shouldn't. It reminds me of Faith in 'Five by Five'. I thought she was cute then, even though she was run down. And also when she was in isolated. I think Eliza does vulnerable well. I almost want to hate her for this quality(but I could never), and I'm slightly jealous. 'Curse you Eliza for being so insanely good looking!' lol 

It just reminds me that this show would have been better of being less Echo-centric. (I know that it’s Dushku’s show technically but at this point I feel like she wasn’t strong enough of an actress or a name to carry a show. She came off from another failed show, a few horror movies and a supporting role in Buffy… it’s not really a name to build a show around)​

The only thing that really moved/horrified me is the imprinting anyone without active architecture bit.

Love the idea of seeing someone having gone broke by obsession with a Doll. It’s an interesting angle. It’s an interesting story to think about … how he loves a woman who doesn’t even exist.

Up until now I’ve liked Adelle so much that I’ve forgotten how very scary she can be. I would not play poker with her cause she has heck of a poker face! I think she demonstrates throughout the episode how scary she can be and it makes it more believable to think of how she once got control of a Dollhouse, seeing this side of her.

Echo/Susan being hysterical and then just bam, wiping her tears and being fine, is a little… meh. Silly. Then they shouldn’t have made as big of a deal of Susan being hysterical and not listening to the “do you want a treatment”. I suppose they’re trying to show how Echo can control herself, turning the imprints on and off but here it just came across a bit ham-handed.

Love Echo and Alpha fight scene. I do like seeing Eliza get physical, she’s so good at it

​

I can’t help but love (in a horror struck way) that Alpha wipes Paul. It’s just so… awful. I feel so bad for Paul, I might not like him but that has to be his biggest nightmare and it’s just horribly tragic to see anyone have to suffer that way.

I don't think Eliza not being a big name had really anything to do with why the show didn't work out. There are a lot of other shows that take a relatively unknown actor and put them in the lead role and it does great. Matt Bomer, Elizas co-star from 'Tru Calling', wasn't a big name until he got the role in 'White Collar' and that show lasted 4 or 5 seasons. I do think the Echo-centric/engagement of the week episodes are what hurt the series. The overall story line is fascinating and plays out well for what we get. I'm pretty sure it was Fox's idea for having it focus on the engagements in the the first season. Had the Dollhouse been the focus of each episode instead of Echo maybe it would have done better, but we'll never know.

Yea I don't like the idea of the Dollhouse trying to wipe and imprint every one, deeply disturbing and I guess even though Topher designs it, Adele is really responsible for getting it out there. Although I'm sure eventually they would have figured it out, so Adele just uses it as leverage to get her house back. Adele really is scary in these two episodes. How cold and calculating she can be. And threatening and controlling. Makes for an interesting character because we know she is morally gray and does have genuine care and concern in her.

The idea of someone spending all their money on the Dollhouse makes sense, but then I really want to know how much engagements cost, cause that Matt guy could afford her every year and he doesn't look super rich. Maybe a rich dad? Idk.

I also didn't like the Susan bit, but I thought Eliza did a decent job with the shock and screaming.

Eliza is good at getting physical 😉 "there's a dirty joke in there somewhere". Although I'm curious as to what dirty joke Alpha thinks you can get with an Eagle scout and a sailor? lol. I liked the fight because it's two super imprinted actives with all these skills, like Alpha says there like equals. It reminds me of Buffy and Faith fights. Alpha being Faith in this case. But two equally unique and matched characters fighting is interesting.

Yea it's sad that Paul gets wiped but at the same time I'm almost relieved cause then it would end the Paul/Echo romance. What happens to Paul next is sadder for him I think.

 

[thetopher]

Meet Jane Doe:
Mainly this episode frustrates me, because I can clearly see the arc of where they wanted to go if only they'd had the time. The three months later thing was a real drag.
I would've loved to see Echo out in the real world, both learning to survive but also helping people in trouble.
I would've loved to see Adele lose control of her house, see it slowly morph into something much more sinister and see her change to fight and get it back.
I'd even have loved to have seen Ballard and Echo grow closer slowly- I mean, they have chemistry (this is Eliza we're talking about) and shhe does sell the whole 'suddenly caring for Ballard' thing, but seeing that develop gradually would've been great.
The Season could've ended with Echo going back to the Dolhouse just as Adele takes control again- a nice set up for Season 3.
A shame- a lot of wasted potential story there.

*sight* ah, well on with the ep.

-Echo asking about the 'money tree' and taling to the cash machine was cute. Love child-like innocent Echo.

-Echo kicking the crap out of the deputy was cool.

-I too wonder how Echo all of a sudden managed to become a Nurse- I can only assume that Ballard helped out somehow with that. Still, I like some of the hospital banter and that she's trying to save the girl she inadvertantly got in trouble.

- 'Matured' Echo and Ballard have a really nice rapport in most of their scenes. It's the first time I actually liked and the pair together.
And as I said Eliza sells the fact that Echo now has feelings for Paul. Maybe it's the loneliness of who she is, or perhaps his devotion to helping her. (I never really cared for the whole 'Girl gets won over by guy's constant dog-like love/devotion. Reminds me too much of Spike/Buffy. Plus its incredibly boring/cliche. I keep on thinking 'would this be at all romantic if the genders were reversed and the girl was acting like this towards the guy? Blah...)

- The Echo/Ballard fighting...hot damn. 😀 The physicality was nice, lots and tons of sexual tension during these scenes. No wonder Ballard sleeps on his back...

- The stuff going on at the Dollhouse was interesting, but also frustrating. So many things had changed so fast that I just felt frustrated watching the scenes. Adele's a glorified secretary, Topher is now head of R&D working with imprinted scientist dolls...it was all kind of too much to take in and enjoy. The Echo/Ballard stuff just seemed more...straight-forward and focused to me.
Although I did like the fact that Boyd is secretly working/covering for Ballard (all part of his plan perhaps...Echo's evolving along nicely)

- OhMyGod She's a Zombie!' 😀

- I liked the whole jailbreak, Echo using various imprints to escape/kick-ass.

And Adele stone-cold betraying Topher! Nice! But also bitch! 😱

All in all an episode that has to change the place-settings very quickly for the end-set up. It does the best it can but the episode is still the most frustating one to watch for me.


A Love Supreme:

Yeah, I remember liking this one more, but a lot of it is pretty blah. The high-lights are Alpha (obviously) and Patton Oswald (yay!), two returning characters that raise the episode up considerably.


-A guy going bankrupt from spending all his money on the Dollhouse? Yeah, I can absolutely see that happening. People can get addicted to anything so
much that it destroys their lives, and the Dollhouse is more addictive than most.

- I LOVE Topher freaking out about Echo, most of the best non-Alpha lines come from him. He just can't seem to get over the fact that she's a 'person' now- all woken up and self-aware.

-Alpha...all that I will say is that I wish we got many more episodes of Alpha, he's so much fun as a bad guy. 🙂

- Adele and Alpha just talking and drinking was good. Adele hiding her sheer terror at her situation was GLORIOUS to see.

- The Echo/Alpha fighting- really good. Eliza always good with the physical stuff. She looks like she could throw a decent punch/kick. *sigh* Sidenote: I miss Faith. 🙁

And...Paul gets wiped. I know I'm supposed to care (and feel sorry for Echo as well now that she has feelings for him) and I do.

On an abstract level I can go 'Ow, that's really bad, sorry Paul', but emotionally I'm just glad that a) Patton Oswald is okay and Alpha didn't kill him, and b) Alpha's REALLY funny/sick in his obsession with Echo. The Paul stuff is just there, no emotional investment in his character or his relationship with Echo. Maybe that's just me- I'm a cruel, evil man. 😉

Plus...Alpha just leaves with Paul in his head, and the next time we see him is Epitaph II. Bit anti-climactic. He should've made another appearance before but I guess they couldn't fit him in. 🙁

I did enjoy the end scene with Minor and Rebecca. Moving on from loss is something you can never absolutely do, but ultimately its the healthiest thing to do. I'm glad he found somebody away from his fantasy to build a new life with.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

-Echo asking about the 'money tree' and taling to the cash machine was cute. Love child-like innocent Echo

- The Echo/Alpha fighting- really good. Eliza always good with the physical stuff. She looks like she could throw a decent punch/kick. *sigh* Sidenote: I miss Faith. 🙁

On an abstract level I can go 'Ow, that's really bad, sorry Paul', but emotionally I'm just glad that a) Patton Oswald is okay and Alpha didn't kill him, and b) Alpha's REALLY funny/sick in his obsession with Echo. The Paul stuff is just there, no emotional investment in his character or his relationship with Echo. Maybe that's just me- I'm a cruel, evil man. 😉

Yea I love the child like innocence it's so cute and adorable. You just wanna hug her, say "aw" and help her out. Yea we all miss Faith 🙁. Don't feel bad, I'm not emotionally invested in Paul dying either, partly because I know what happens next, which is sadder for him I think.

 

[Taake]

Lol, I feel like the cheese standing alone over here because I find Echo's childlike innocence incredibly annoying.

 

[Blaze]

A Love Supreme:

Paul: "Gotta make sense, he's the only one out there with knowledge of this place and an obsession with Echo"
Adelle: "I thought that was you Mr. Ballard"

LOL

This episode was kinda weird to be honest. I loved it, but why does Alpha show up now. Seems a bit random. And why didn't they just shoot him at the first opportunity.

I did like how they brought back old engagements, ties things nicely.

I'm also digging Paul and Boyd's bromance. Whenever Adelle talks to them it feels like they are getting slapped on the wrist by their mom.

Topher: "Did they eat my brains"

Made me laugh, when the active turned all ninja the first thing that popped into my mind was: Zombies!

I'm glad they had the balls to "kill" Paul. The issue with this show, and that's a bit issue for a Joss Whedon show, is that no one can ever truly be dead because of the imprints. I mean, how can Joss torture us by killing our favorite character if they can't die.

Lasty, I shed a tear or two at the end, I love Echo. A lot.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Paul: "Gotta make sense, he's the only one out there with knowledge of this place and an obsession with Echo"
Adelle: "I thought that was you Mr. Ballard"

I love that line. Oh Adele. lol

This episode was kinda weird to be honest. I loved it, but why does Alpha show up now. Seems a bit random. And why didn't they just shoot him at the first opportunity.

Yea they didn't give a reason as to why now he wants to come get Echo back. I assume they don't kill him for the same reasons they haven't killed Echo. They want to be able to capture him and study him probably.

I'm also digging Paul and Boyd's bromance. Whenever Adelle talks to them it feels like they are getting slapped on the wrist by their mom.

Yes, that's exactly what it's like. Two little kids getting in trouble by their mom. It definitely helps Paul's character this season.

 

[Blaze]

Yea they didn't give a reason as to why now he wants to come get Echo back. I assume they don't kill him for the same reasons they haven't killed Echo. They want to be able to capture him and study him probably.

This, or they want us to keep staying at Alan Tudyk in a muscle shirt. Both are equally good reasons 😛

 

[Fuffy Baith]

This, or they want us to keep staying at Alan Tudyk in a muscle shirt. Both are equally good reasons 😛

Yes! Oh his pretty muscles! I had always thought Alan Tudyk was cute, even though I hadn't seen Dollhouse or Firefly, just in random parts like 'A Knight's Tale'. And he's cute and fun as Wash on Firefly. But when I saw him as Alpha in the tight shirt, I was like "Damn! Alan Tudyk's looking good" I didn't know he had such nice muscles underneath all of his goofiness. And he brings so much likability to a character we should hate.

Sidenote: Fran Kranz who plays Topher is also in great shape, he just hides it under all the layers Topher wears. He was filming 'Cabin in the Woods' around this time and the role called for a shirtless scene but he declined saying his character would never be that kind of guy with the abs.

I will say Dollhouse delivers when it comes to showing off their male characters muscles. Victor, Paul, and Alpha. Mmm 🙂

 

[Blaze]

I guess a show about human fantasies requires their actors to be sexy as hell lol. I can't say I'm about to complain 😛

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Blaze: I totally did not just google "Fran Kranz shirtless" I totally just did now. lol. Not bad, a little too hairy for my tastes though. I was watching 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia' the other day, and I was like "Topher!" and my roommates like "Who?" I actually think Fran Kranz is cute in a dorky way. Anyways were getting off topic. 🙂 I could talk about the beautiful people of the Dollhouse all day. lol.

Back to Topher then. I really like his character development this season. Going from a sociopath in a sweater vest to someone who does care and has some morals. It's nice to see these different sides to him, especially after the Nolan incident.

 

[Blaze]

haha After multiple google search, I came to the conclusion that his smile is what seems to make him dorky. Whenever he has a serious face he gets this whole sex appeal going on lol

I think it's interesting how Topher and Adelle seemed to have a bit of a switched in personality. It all makes sense in the evolution of their character, but who would have thought that Topher would become more humane than Adelle.

 

[Taake]

As for the Paul and Boyd bromance I kind of feel like Boyd is one of those characters who just seems able to get a likeable rapport with almost anyone 🙂 I love him with Topher, Paul, Adelle and Echo... There is just something in him that seems to compliment other characters well.